When to Desecrate over PoF (TC)

[Woke]

I've been playing around the past few days with the simcraft profiles for Arcane mages. Now, this is of course based upon sims, so it is running in ideal conditions, but I have found that I am playing Arcane now for Fel Lord and Iron Reaver almost exclusively simply because I dislike the RNG associated on other fights with Arcane.

Based upon the premise that Arcane is only played on these 2 fights, I set the Arcane t18 mythic profile to a fight length of 120 seconds with a 20% variance, which is about the time fights are for Iron Reaver if your guild is killing Reaver pre-air phase. The results below used the same tier 18 mythic profile, with just the trinkets in question swapped.

Note: This testing and results are only based upon and applicable to single target scenarios such as Iron Reaver and Fel Lord Zakuun in HFC

Results with PoF at 120 second fight length:
DPS: 139,753

Results with Desecrated at 120 second fight length:
DPS: 142,859

Now, I then set the tier 18Mythic profile and did the same as above, but with 150 second fight length, which is more in line with Fel Lord fight times being posted right now:

Results with PoF at 150 second fight length:
DPS: 125,880

Results with Desecrated at 150 second fight length:
DPS: 125, 879

Based upon the testing that I have done so far, I believe that Desecrated is better than we are giving it credit for, and the data suggests that it pulls ahead of PoF at single target fight lengths sub 150 seconds. As we go into gear getting valor upgrades as well as legendary rings hitting their 795 ilvl cap in the next month, I believe that we will see fight times on Iron Reaver as well as Fel Lord continue to drop, therefore resulting in the net effect of Desecrated continuing to pull ahead of PoF in single target fights lasting less than 150 seconds.

Please, conduct your own sims on this profile as well as offer your conclusions.

[Wilderness]

You could be right that, on average, its as good or better than PoF under those conditions. Which makes it more than a viable choice, particularly if someone doesn't like the RNG yo-yo that is PoF. But I also think that people who will have a 795 ring, and the ilvl to kill bosses in 2-3 minutes (and this will get even faster once ilvl upgrades hit) aren't looking to be consistent. They are trying to rank, so they are willing to take a lower average for a higher ceiling.

[Woke]

You could be right that, on average, its as good or better than PoF under those conditions. Which makes it more than a viable choice, particularly if someone doesn't like the RNG yo-yo that is PoF. But I also think that people who will have a 795 ring, and the ilvl to kill bosses in 2-3 minutes (and this will get even faster once ilvl upgrades hit) aren't looking to be consistent. They are trying to rank, so they are willing to take a lower average for a higher ceiling.

Understandable, but the results indicate that the dps range is about 6% higher on 120 second fights or less for Desecrated than it is for PoF, which offers consistency and higher ceiling.

[Curnivore]

It might have uses in those few fights but good luck getting it over other classes that consider it their BiS, and if one gets it so far into farm that it becomes a ranking race thing only, it becomes uninteresting for most.

[Wilderness]

Understandable, but the results indicate that the dps range is about 6% higher on 120 second fights or less for Desecrated than it is for PoF, which offers consistency and higher ceiling.

The top end of the range for that trinket is 6% higher than PoF in your tests? That's surprising.

[Woke]

Understandable, but the results indicate that the dps range is about 6% higher on 120 second fights or less for Desecrated than it is for PoF, which offers consistency and higher ceiling.

The top end of the range for that trinket is 6% higher than PoF in your tests? That's surprising.

Check for yourself. Use the tier 18 mythic sample profile, set to a patchwerk style fight for 120 seconds, and do a sim with that profile and then change out the PoF with Desecrated and the dps range is 122% to 128% respectively in favor of Desecrated.

[magictricks]

I think the problem here is that POF is such a POS.

It has a 0.90 procs per min CD but can proc 3 times back to back, i've had it not proc a single time in 3 minutes of combat, it can proc while you have no AMs ready and it can go up when you have everything ready.

The average damage on POF is obviously quite low, but the potential is very VERY high.

take a look at the dps curves as well as the average.

[Curnivore]

I think the problem here is that POF is such a POS.

It has a 0.90 procs per min CD but can proc 3 times back to back

I was getting a feeling the past couple of weeks that it became more erratic or rare. But it may be just RNG. Or it may alter its behavior a bit in certain setups.

[Skybreaker]

Your using sims and I think that's what skewing you. I did try desecrate thinking the same way you do. However, there is a higher probability (approx 50% chance) you can force a poh proc on to the crystal. When this happens your talking about mega burst. It exceed desecrate by a HUGE margin. This all has to do with the ring as well.
If you want to play it safe go with desecrate. But, if you want to rank take your chances with poh procing on crystal by doing a 1 arcane blast opener on boss. Trust me it's a huge difference.
But, there is also a chance it won't proc on crystal and your doing the same damage as if you were taking desecrate.
Also arcane exceeds frost and fire on all fights except tyrant and council. You just need to know how to play with your poh proc. A weak aura will show when it's up on any target. Trust me it always procs. You might not see it. But, that's only because your not targeting the right target when it procs. Another thing is on aoe fights in close quarters with a bunch of adds. Once you get a poh proc while using AB or w.e.. It's sometimes best to just spam arcane explosion to fish for AM procs. It hits faster than AB and generates at the same frequency if not more than AB. Just giving you my 2 sense. I'm defiantly not the best Mage by far.
But, I have played with some of the very best.

[skiz]

Based upon the testing that I have done so far, I believe that Desecrated is better than we are giving it credit for, and the data suggests that it pulls ahead of PoF at single target fight lengths sub 150 seconds.

A) 0.9 rppm on PoF compared to 1 rppm on the other one. Every sim that cuts at exactly 1/2/3/4/5 min should actually have a result that cuts off more proccs from PoF than the other one. On average PoF proccs every 60 /(0.9*1.13) ~59 seconds. Other one 60/(1*1.13) = 53 just slightly earlier than PoF.

A = PoF sucks on those fightlengts.

B) If the arcane profile looks as good as the frost one: Robomage cant play with PoF !

B = PoF is probably better, because robo sucks.

C) Lower fighttime & you do care for dps is called padding. You should just run PoF for that and hope for that one moment where the stars align?

C = Who cares?

[DyLemma]

Nothing with arcane surprises me when you see this as #2 log using gaze which I'm guessing was a mistake to be honest but still got an insane parse. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NJ ... amage-done" target="_blank

[magictricks]

he got to 4 stack AB with 3 AM procs, then he got 2 MOD back to back procs, and it looks like 3 bombs landed right next to the boss so the doom nova raped face.

good work either way.

[Rinoa]

Yeah, I got lucky. You don't get parses like that without a large amount of luck.

Edit: Let's get back on topic.

[Jimmy]

When mythic bosses die in sub-2min, what really does a 6% dps gain matter?

[Woke]

When mythic bosses die in sub-2min, what really does a 6% dps gain matter?

It's the difference between about 6-10k based upon the current top parses. So it does kinda matter

[Skybreaker]

@ dye,
basing all of this on sims is probably not the way to go. Using real player data might lead you to a better conclusion.
Common sense
Poh is a static 500 intellect with a damage proc that potentially could skyrocket your damage in any situation especially aoe. But, even in single target using the prismatic crystal as a secondary the poh proc can create huge burst that desecrate could never catch up to.
Desecrate is a static mastery stat. Mastery is not our best stat anymore, it's followed by the haste cap which is even then debatable. You get a long 20s intellect proc but from data In past tiers usually the static will equal the proc over time if it's just a 1/3 of the proc value.
Granted your decision should be based on the ring which is a 15s blast countdown. So there's a argument for desecrate. But, in the end I just don't see it comparing to the burst of poh.
You would have to link comparable logs of fel lord. I just can't see desecrate ever outperforming poh. But, if you can prove it then you can wash all my common sense out of the window. I'm more inclined to follow facts anyhow.
Sims though will never be a good basis for most arguments.
And this whole 6% nonsense, is an average at best maybe....like I said poh has the random potential to lay waste to desecrate.
Link logs prove me wrong plz

[Jimmy]

When mythic bosses die in sub-2min, what really does a 6% dps gain matter?

It's the difference between about 6-10k based upon the current top parses. So it does kinda matter

I suppose if your end-goal is to parse high, 6-10k 'matters'... But regardless, looking at an average case net gain of 6% is meaningless when trying to parse, as top parses don't come from the average case, but from those parses which fall 2-3 standard deviations away from the mean case.

Assuming zero movement patchwerk, these μ+3σ parses all come down to RNG: did doom proc on your crystal? Did the RPPM gods grant you a favor of back-to-back-to-back-et al. procs? did you have endless missile procs to dump into your endless dooms? How good was your crit luck?

But again, at this point in the farm-lull of the end-of-xpac raid tier, it seems like wasted effort even if you could convince people that there was indeed a non-negligible gain.

[Wilderness]

You'd also have to take another look with fully upgraded gear, since 10 ilvls could change the initial results.

[Fleks]

Nothing with arcane surprises me when you see this as #2 log using gaze which I'm guessing was a mistake to be honest but still got an insane parse. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NJ ... amage-done" target="_blank

That is a Log using Ap combined with Tome prepull then equip another trinket to gain 3effects pretty much,why you would use UgoS for that is beyond me but still.

[Rinoa]

Because at the time UGoS was the only >700 ilvl trinket I had outside of PoF and ToSW. However, let's get back on topic.