Very low dps - why?

[Wildfox]

Mod edit: Moved to Q&A
Guys, I have a really poor dps, please tell me why? :< Do I have wrong stats or what?

851 ilvl
Aluneth - 19 lvl

I do around 130-160k on single target, 200k on three dummies

Crit 26.61%
Haste 16.33%
Mastery 33.28%
Versatility 2.35%
Avoidance 4.07%

I just do it like those guides say... AB till 4, then missiles everytime they pop up and Mark of Aluneth & Nether Tempest every time they go off the cd, barrage when I have less than 70% mana to regain a bit...
Arcane orb when I have no missiles up and have 4 stacks.

Arcana power when bursting AB/AM. It's simple. Evocation after AB burst.

I have to get Quickening and rune of power coz my actual talents were for leveling, but still... I do like 150k dps as 851ilvl... WEIRD.

Please guys, help me.

[Forminasage]

I have to get Quickening and rune of power coz my actual talents were for leveling,

This is making a bigger difference than you think, see Frosted's talent comparisons. https://www.altered-time.com/forum/view ... f=3&t=2618

[Wildfox]

I've changed my talents for AFm, ROP, SN, NT, QKng - my normal dps went up from 140k to 160-165k. My burst phase went up from around 160-170k to 200k which is really cool!

But I have two issues.

1 - I keep loosing my Quickening buff while doing Evocation. Even when I cancel evocation earlier sometimes my Quickening goes away. And I lose it sometimes during normal phase when need to cast MoA, NB, SN and other stuff...

2. My mana goes down very fast, even in normal phase. I don't know if it's because I don't trigger as much AM as I should or what. I tried not to use Arcane Barrage at all because I didn't want to lose QKng buff, but it's impossible. I lose mana to like 60% and I have everything on cooldown and no AM's and there's like 45 secs for new Evocation and I just have to use arcane barrage or I'll get OOM. Usually I have like 20+ stack of Quickening and then I have to slow down and use arcane barrage.

Ofc I didn't use any elixirs, food or time warp during the tests.

[Cablok]

1. Evocation casts usually require an AE or saved AM in order to keep quickening up, at high quickening stacks or TW you can Evo into blasts and keep quickening up.

2. This won't change unless you have very high mastery or lucky procs with AM. The two mana regeneration legendaries are highly valued because they are bandaid fixes for the spec, specifically the kilt.

Small note, the two mana regeneration legendaries are not the best dps but allow for a functional rotation so weigh the pros and cons if you ever get them.

[Wildfox]

Just did 260k dps on the last boss on CoS mythic (with time warp). Gonna test the dps in ED raid next week to check dps on longer fights.

[Cablok]

Raids are when arcane has to be planned carefully, normal mythics and lower you can pretty much maintain constant "burst" phases. You'll have to really be careful with conserve phases to not go oom in raids, gl!

[Wildfox]

My overall dps for mythic DHT +4 was 190k+. I usually had like 35+ QKng stacks and almost no mana left when a boss was dying.

During boss fights I do like 160-200k and I can't pull more. And I have 857 ilvl... 40% mastery

Is there anything I can change to increase my dps?

[Wildfox]

really no help?

[rab]

if you would link some logs, maybe someone could help easier.
I will take a look at them if you have logs, but it can take a few days maybe, because I have very little time. but I play arcane only since legion start and I am doing well, so I should be able to find some improvements

[Wildfox]

oh, awesome, thanks!

but could you please what logs should I post and how to take them?

[rab]

how to create logs you please have to look up on the internet (e.g.: http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/4 ... ive-guide/" target="_blank )

and for the easiest way to look for casting/rotation errors a fight on a training dummy would be enough i think. make sure that it's at least a few minutes long, not just 30 seconds

[Wildfox]

thanks. I'll put some logs

here's one - ED HC dragons https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZDzBNLQWyA4raxHv/" target="_blank
225k dps (kinda surprised me lol but it's probably because of aoe)

dummy 203k dps - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YqFyNPbHg7crzaGw/" target="_blank (no food, no time warp)

[rab]

hi. i did some dummy testing too (and misstimed a few cooldowns too), but was easily able to put 270+k dps (in comparison: you have 205k)

i will give you the 2 links so maybe you can do some analysis yourself (i cut them both to 5 minutes):

me: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Jj ... 3&source=4" target="_blank

you: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Yq ... e&source=1" target="_blank

the first thing: you have to use your cooldowns and burn-phases more efficiently. especially all your supsequent AP-windows are really terrible (you can see them when you click on the AP-symbol beneath the graph) ... you didnt even line them up with RoP ...

so before anything else, you have to make sure, that you make the most possible dmg in your burn window. i dont want to get too deep, because you have problems with the basics, so just a few tips

you want your MoA to explode under some %dmg buff (Ap&RoP or RoP alone) (I made a mistake there too in my logs (2nd MoA))
you ALWAYS need to put RoP on the ground when you are using Arcane Power
in order to maximize dmg in the AP/RoP window i do these things:
cast Dots right before the AP/RoP, so i do not "waste" casttime for them in the 10 burn-seconds, but the ongoing dmg-ticks will get the %dmg buff
for example: on pull: AB - AB - AB - AB - NT - MoA - RoP - AP (no global CD) - AM (you need to have a AM-procc banked to not lose quickening stacks)
and then just always prioritize AMs over ABs in burn phases, because AMs do more dmg per cast time (remember they have a chance to shoot 8 instead of 5)

also you do not lose quickening stacks just for no reason. you only want to lose them when you cast ABarr for mana reason
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Jj ... ity=198924" target="_blank vs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Yq ... ity=198924" target="_blank
for example: you do not cast supernova and lose quickening stacks (say maybe after NT&MoA, when you could have cast an AB/AM(if you are at 4 charges) instead to refresh the stacks)

i will stop now, because you need to learn the basics. and i think in reality you do not "do like those guides say" (or you have bad guides)
you do not cast MoA and AMs only whenever they go off cooldown/procc, but you pair them with some %dmg buffs and quickening stacks whenever possible

it sounds maybe a little harsh, but i am trying to help and i see you have troubles with the basics ^^

[Wildfox]

Nah, it's fine man! Thank you so much for all those tips, that's what I made this thread for

In the beginning (and during burst phases) I always shoot 4 AB then use RoP>MoA>AP and burst with AB (and throw AM when have 2-3 active).

Then it's kinda complicated because MoA, RoP and AP have different cd times and I just use them when they are off the cd - always with bursting AB hard. I try to use RoP and MoA together.

So I shouldn't really cast them as soon as they are off the cd and just wait for AP to cast everything at once? I didn't know it's better to wait a bit and buff everything up again, I thought I have to cast everything asap.

cast Dots right before the AP/RoP

- oh, so they will get buffed after? I've read on icy veins that I always HAVE TO use RoP BEFORE casting MoA.

remember they have a chance to shoot 8 instead of 5)

I don't have that trait yet

About quickening - yeah, I sometimes screw it up because I think I can add one more spell before AB and still get it in time.
But overall thing is I can't save Quickening for the next evocation, because I get oom after 30 seconds of using evocation and there's like 60 seconds left. I have to use Arcane Barrage earlier to save the mana for next ~60 seconds of normal phase or I'll just get oom. And by that time I usually havel like 20-30 stacks.

Btw: During the burst phase - should it be MoA>RoP>AP>AB/AM or only RoP>AP>AB/AM?

Btw2: I'll take care of all your tips and will post a new log soon

[rab]

In the beginning (and during burst phases) I always shoot 4 AB then use RoP>MoA>AP and burst with AB (and throw AM when have 2-3 active).

Then it's kinda complicated because MoA, RoP and AP have different cd times and I just use them when they are off the cd - always with bursting AB hard. I try to use RoP and MoA together.

RoP has 2 charges, so you dont have to use it "on cooldown", but on demand in its 40 seconds-window when you have 1 charge (you are right that you dont want to sit on 2 charges)

so ideally you basically cast your MoA and AP on cooldown (wich makes every 2nd MoA line up with AP, because it has half the cooldown), and delay RoP for a high dmg phase (obvious burn phases, or when you are burning a little mana with AB spam because you have enough mana (or you will use 3 AM procs on 4 charges), or you cast MoA and want to explode it with +%dmg)

yes, dots are getting buffed even when they are castet before +%dmg buff, yes (MoA and NT in our case)

the 8 AM-trait should be your first one to get. once you get it you should of course prioritize AMs for dmg (dont know if you should also without the trait)

burst should be (NT)>MoA>RoP>AP>AB/AM whenever possible.
i think its better to delay MoA for maybe 10seconds to wait for AP get ready to combine them ... its a general rule of thumb: if you have to wait for a few seconds (say up to 10) to combine some highdmging spells into one empowered burn/+%dmg-phase, you should do so

if you can only concentrate on rotation, it should be something like this (not mentioning NT)

first burn (pull): MoA+RoP+AP all together
2nd "mini" burn: MoA+RoP AB spam for RoP-duration
3rd burn: MoA+RoP+AP all together
4th "mini" burn: MoA+RoP AB spam for RoP-duration
and so on

so at first the cooldowns look to be very different, but when you concentrate on them, and also take a ~10 seconds window for buffering some mistakes/rng with proccs to wait for them, they kind of line up OK

the next difficult thing is to reproduce them in an actual encounter with some mechanics/movement/targetswitches, but the first step would be to get it going on dummy

[Wildfox]

I have a question, can I cast RoP after first burn? I tried your setup but I have one free RoP and the second one regenerates quickly and I think it's a waste of RoP. I could use one RoP while waiting for MoA to come back.

It'd be like that

first burn (pull): MoA+RoP+AP all together
RoP + AB/AM
2nd "mini" burn: MoA+RoP AB spam for RoP-duration
RoP + AB/AM - don't know about this one, coz it may slow down another phase
3rd burn: MoA+RoP+AP all together
RoP + AB/AM
4th "mini" burn: MoA+RoP AB spam for RoP-duration

And here's my log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GpCd1Ftv7HaWKmqV/" target="_blank

still kinda low for 864 ilvl mage...

Here's log for doing your setup https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Cj4yNHXbmQ9rD37Z/" target="_blank

I did first burn phase, AB till I got oom and used Evocation. Then I made 2nd mini burn phase and... I got almost OOM and I had like 45 secs to the next evocation... Had 25 quickening stacks at that point.

If I wanted to spare mana I had to cast arcane barrage during first phase, after having like 10 stacks of quickening...

[Wildfox]

hey, after all those changes in 7.1.5 I wanna ask you about what are the best talents and spell rotation for arcane mages?