7.3 Netherlight Crucible Effects

[Frosted]

Below is a brief comparison of the new Netherlight Crucible effects for each of our specs.

Master of Shadows: Mastery increased by [ 650, 1300, 1950 ].
Murderous Intent: Your Versatility is increased by [ 1750, 3500, 5250 ] while Concordance of the Legionfall is active.
Shadowbind: Your spells and abilities have a chance to deal [ 166000, 332000, 498000 ] Shadow damage and heal you for [ 166000, 332000, 498000 ].
Chaotic Darkness: Your spells and abilities have a chance to deal 60000 to 300000 Shadow damage and heal you for 60000 to 300000. ( [ 60000, 120000, 180000 ] )
Torment the Weak: Your spells and abilities have a chance to cause Torment, dealing [ 19800, 39600, 59400 ] * 5 Shadow damage over 15 sec. This effect stacks up to 3 times.
Dark Sorrows: Your spells and abilities have a chance to afflict the target with Sorrow, causing it to burst after 8 sec, dealing [ 133100, 266200, 399300 ] Shadow damage.

Holy

Light Speed: Haste increased by [ 650, 1300, 1950 ]. Movement speed increased by [ 650, 1300, 1950 ].
Refractive Shell: Your spells and abilities have the chance to cause Refractive Shell, absorbing 200000 damage. Lasts 10 sec.
Shocklight: While Concordance of the Legionfall is active, your critical strike is increased by [ 1750, 3500, 5250 ].
Secure in the Light: Your harmful spells and abilities have the chance to deal [ 155000, 310000, 465000 ] additional damage and grant you Holy Bulwark, absorbing up to 77500 damage over 8 sec.
Infusion of Light: Your harmful spells and abilities have the chance to deal [ 116000, 232000, 348000 ] additional Holy damage. Your helpful spells and abilities have a chance to heal for 116000.
Light's Embrace: When you take damage, you have a chance to generate Light's Embrace, stacking up to 5 times. Light's Embrace heals for 29000 damage over 6 sec.

Each comparison uses 1/3 ranks in the trait.
Frost:


Arcane:


Fire:


Updated with the buffed damage proc effects. Images from the post Norrinir made below.

From the results, even at this ilvl, it's pretty clear that the secondary stat effects are the best effects for all three specs. The damage effects seem to just be slightly undertuned, so until something changes there you would want to try and avoid those. There is also a pretty wide spread in effect value from the weakest to the strong - meaning that when you are choosing between a mid-tier and top-tier relic trait, the tree breakdown may end up being the deciding factor on if the relic is an upgrade or not.

[TurkeyOne]

Even with dark sorrows being aoe it seems somewhat ridiculous that the difference between that trait and the best is something like 3-5x the difference between not having a trait and dark sorrows. Especially since the stats scale in AoE situations as well

[wurbel81]

I am assuming this is only for ST. Do you have one for 2+ and 4+ targets? For ST frost I agree with the light speed but I am having a hard time with AoE fire between Master of Shadows or Murderous Intent.

[Norrinir]

Here are some additional sims. Base T20 profiles, comparing only one rank of the T2 traits.

Frost

frost.png (23.06 KiB) Viewed 69255 times

Fire

fire.png (23.02 KiB) Viewed 69255 times

Arcane

arcane.png (23.33 KiB) Viewed 69255 times

Again, if you want to be 100% sure, you should sim for yourself.

simc options:

Code: Select all

target_error=0.05 fixed_time=1 single_actor_batch=1 chart_show_relative_difference=1 <profile> name=base crucible= copy=torment_the_weak,base crucible=1780:1 copy=shadowbind,base crucible=1778:1 copy=chaotic_darkness,base crucible=1779:1 copy=dark_sorrows,base crucible=1781:1 copy=master_of_shadows,base crucible=1771:1 copy=murderous_intent,base crucible=1774:1 copy=shocklight,base crucible=1777:1 copy=light_speed,base crucible=1770:1 copy=secure_in_the_light,base crucible=1782:1 copy=infusion_of_light,base crucible=1783:1

[Darkwraith01]

Might wanna re-sim it.... PTR updates just announced:

http://www.wowhead.com/news=271643/neth ... ing-on-ptr

[Norrinir]

Updated.

[Xinder]

Oh yay. We went from a slight bit of difference between all 3 specs to now the "best" all being the same. Though them all being this stupid close to each other shows blizzard probably adjusted appropriately. I doubt any of these become extreme outliers under Frosted's sim settings, given where they stood prior to the changes.

[Katsumi]

That's pretty cool, thanks for the sims.

<irony> They are not the same at all, no idea why you would think that. They probably even have different icons and animations! </irony> The one that gives you pure damage is on top (as it should), but the others with secondary benefits are so close that you don't have to feel too bad for getting one of them. I'd also expect the AOE one to be undervalued and given how close they are you might see slightly different numbers if you run a different gear baseline.

What I don't get is why they introduced this system at all. You can't play around small procs like these, which means that it ends up being just another icon that pops up every once in a while. But I guess it keeps us busy discussing and simming it.

[Mortos]

edited and removed the post since I failed to read early in the morning

[Katsumi]

Sorry, forgot to add reading assistance in my post. Fixed.

[Eggochiggo]

Anything vs relic traits available to us to use as a tool?

[Glynny]

I took Norrinir's idea & code and did the same for 2 targets. Here are the results.

Frost



Fire


Arcane


Same as Norrinir used, using T20_Mythic default profiles and adding

Code: Select all

desired_targets=2

[sawbossnl]

So do we go for the single target traits for more boss dammage or are we going for the cleave traits for more overall dammage ? Like what is wise ?

[Makz]

Like what is wise ?

Considering Antorus - I would go for ST traits for Frost and 2-target for Fire. With AK ramping up so high, it should be possible to have both weapons close to 69 at least before Antorus opens.

[gallamann]

Can we get a listing for each spec that shows not only the T2 Crucible traits, but also includes + weapon level and the the relic weapon traits.

Here is an example of what I mean which is for Shadow Priest - https://imgur.com/hhbWGf4

[nickseng]

Can we get a listing for each spec that shows not only the T2 Crucible traits, but also includes + weapon level and the the relic weapon traits.

Here is an example of what I mean which is for Shadow Priest - https://imgur.com/hhbWGf4

Why not just sim it, at that point? It's pretty ease to do with https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/relic

[Makz]

Can we get a listing for each spec that shows not only the T2 Crucible traits, but also includes + weapon level and the the relic weapon traits.

Here is an example of what I mean which is for Shadow Priest - https://imgur.com/hhbWGf4

There is a website which is based on info posted here/discord. Not sure how audited it is for accuracy, but I would assume it is fairly accurate.

https://bloodmallet.github.io/relics.html

Simming it is best, this can be used more like guidelines.

[Jahirah]

Like what is wise ?

Considering Antorus - I would go for ST traits for Frost and 2-target for Fire. With AK ramping up so high, it should be possible to have both weapons close to 69 at least before Antorus opens.

I haven't seen much about this, but I am hoping you are right. I am VERY torn right now as to which spec to bump first. I play frost for ST and Fire for AoE fights. I primarily love Fire, but swapped to frost for ST as it was so much higher dps and reliability. I like the fact that I can swap back and forth instead of changing talents, but with the new crucible I was forced to choose. With the new T21 set bonus I decided to go fire (my first love) but do not want to hold my guild back with a weak spec until I get 4 pc. I do nearly every daily with AP I can do within reason to try to maintain both fire/frost spec's and this has been on my mind this week as to which to do first. Unfortunately we cannot lvl both at the same time or we are gimping ourselves in both spec's. I have a 2 year old at home and raid full-time, with Mythic +/questing on off nights, so have not been able to research the fights in the new instance to back up which spec may or may not come out on top (or if it will stay Frost ST and Fire AoE)....Thoughts?

[Makz]

-snip

If you are raiding mythic, you should have 4pc tier by the 2nd reset the latest, e.g. before any meaningful progression starts. For TOS, I played Frost start until Fallen Avatar, but forward its only Fire, so I put away my i966/64 Benchchill and am fully investing in fire (i964/60 atm). My plan personally is to have both to 72 which should be possible as we are supposed to have at least 4-6 more AK bumps before Antorus, even more before mythic launches.

[Nydan]

Do you still care about the relic effect ? for example, would you equip a relic that enhance your shield just because the netherlight crucible effect is better ? Or do we have to sim them all ?