7.1.5 - Arcane Mage Guide - Updated: 02-16-2017

[x1xruex1x]

Just so I understand it correctly: in the throttling phase, am I supposed to spam NT on CD to fish for AM procs or do I only refresh it it when it's about to drop?

@TheHeretic91,

Just as Gruks stated, only refresh NT, and only do the refresh while you're above 3 seconds remaining on your Quickening timer. Save the last 3 seconds to ensure you have enough time to refresh Quickening.

NT fishing for AM was made null as of a few hotfixes ago (like a month+) Now it has a severely reduced chance to proc AM, and at that, seems to only have a heightened chance if reapplied with no NT currently on target, or less than 3 seconds remaining. However, that's just from my testing.

[x1xruex1x]

@Undead,

Yes, follow what Kythos posted and you'll be fine. Definitely try to get a good amount of Mastery under your belt as it helps keep the mana regen flowing strong, and in turn you can maintain a higher mana level going into your HQ Burn phase which is vital to pushing damage to offset the low APM (actions per minute) in the throttle phase.

I tested this on the dummy (without any buffs) over 5 minutes and found this to be a 15% DPS decrease over a standard conserve rotation. 300k DPS aiming for a HQ burn versus 350k DPS doing a standard burn/conserve rotation. In my opinion, while a HQ Burn can double the damage of a LQ Burn, it doesn't outweigh the damage lost in the throttle phase vs a standard conserve rotation.

@Mikeskies,

Would you happen to have any logs that you could share that would show the trends that you're using and how your conserve tends to work out? If we have more details on your character ranging from iLvl to general stats to talents and trait picks, along with logs we can try to mirror and see if it's an increase to ourselves.

I'll be doing a thorough test of the Throttle phase later tonight when I go raiding, and I'll be focusing on Nythendra and Ursoc for my testings. Once I have those bits of data, I'll have it uploaded to warcraft logs so others can see what I did. I make no promises about my skills as I tend to get flustered when things go afoul and mess up sometimes, especially because i'm one of the leaders helping to orchestrate things. But hopefully it'll give insight as to what we can do in Throttle mode.

Elsewise, in the meanwhile, see if you can get us the aforementioned, and provide what your rotation looks like in cosnerve and how the ebb and flow works for yourself on that.

#interested

[Mikeskies]

@Undead,

Yes, follow what Kythos posted and you'll be fine. Definitely try to get a good amount of Mastery under your belt as it helps keep the mana regen flowing strong, and in turn you can maintain a higher mana level going into your HQ Burn phase which is vital to pushing damage to offset the low APM (actions per minute) in the throttle phase.

I tested this on the dummy (without any buffs) over 5 minutes and found this to be a 15% DPS decrease over a standard conserve rotation. 300k DPS aiming for a HQ burn versus 350k DPS doing a standard burn/conserve rotation. In my opinion, while a HQ Burn can double the damage of a LQ Burn, it doesn't outweigh the damage lost in the throttle phase vs a standard conserve rotation.

@Mikeskies,

Would you happen to have any logs that you could share that would show the trends that you're using and how your conserve tends to work out? If we have more details on your character ranging from iLvl to general stats to talents and trait picks, along with logs we can try to mirror and see if it's an increase to ourselves.

I'll be doing a thorough test of the Throttle phase later tonight when I go raiding, and I'll be focusing on Nythendra and Ursoc for my testings. Once I have those bits of data, I'll have it uploaded to warcraft logs so others can see what I did. I make no promises about my skills as I tend to get flustered when things go afoul and mess up sometimes, especially because i'm one of the leaders helping to orchestrate things. But hopefully it'll give insight as to what we can do in Throttle mode.

Elsewise, in the meanwhile, see if you can get us the aforementioned, and provide what your rotation looks like in cosnerve and how the ebb and flow works for yourself on that.

#interested

I don't have any logs at the moment. My ilvl is 873. 37k Intellect. 47% mastery. 25% crit. 10% haste, 3% versatility. Talents: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent ... aa!0010001" target="_blank

Rotation
Opening: AB, SN, ABx3, MOA, ROP, NT, AB/AM til ROP charge is ready.
Initial Burn: ROP, AP, NT, Burn til OOM. Evocation.
Secondary Burn: AM to maintain Quickening. NT. AB/AM til ROP charge is ready. NT. Burn til under 40% to proc Cord of Infinity for some extra regen.
Conserve: Generally, ABx3, AM, NT, Barrage (Goal is to regen mana back to 60% when AP is ready)

I think of Quickening as a helpful buff rather than something that has to be maintained at all cost. A HQ Burn will almost double the damage as a LQ Burn, but from my calculations and testing, the LQ Burn + sustained conserve does more DPS than HQ Burn + throttled casts to maintain Quickening.

[Gourdin]

Some test for trinkets on live if people are interested :



No buff, no food, no BL, stats depending of which trinket used
32k/34k int
Mastery ~49%
Hate ~13%
Crit ~23%


I don't really like SimCraft or other simulations, I prefer messing up on live

Not really anything conclusive, I don't know if Twisting Wind is taken into account correctly on Skada/Recount, was 1/2% more on warcraftlogs from a raid 2 days ago.

[Mikeskies]

Some test for trinkets on live if people are interested :



No buff, no food, no BL, stats depending of which trinket used
32k/34k int
Mastery ~49%
Hate ~13%
Crit ~23%


I don't really like SimCraft or other simulations, I prefer messing up on live

Not really anything conclusive, I don't know if Twisting Wind is taken into account correctly on Skada/Recount, was 1/2% more on warcraftlogs from a raid 2 days ago.

I thinking Twisting Wind is BiS on bosses with large hitboxes, i.e. raid bosses. It does equivalent damage % as Naraxas' Spiked Tongue, but comes with 600 more stats. In mythics+, it's not so good.

[Ùndead]

@undead
What is your mastery at?

Regarding keeping quickening (LQ low quickening, HQ high quickening)
After your first burn phase, if you use AP then Evo, you could be around 15 or so stacks with full mana.
Your insticts will tell you to keep castings fast as possible.... This will drain your mana and with ap and evo on CD it will force you to barrage,hence drop stacks.

By casting an ab,am,ae every 4,5,5 seconds, throttling; cast just to keep up quickening, will give the mana pool a chance to stabalize. It feels wrong because your casts per min drops significantly.... But an AP RoP all out burn starting at 40 quickening... Feelsgoodman.
NT/SN on CD will lead to more AM Procs. If you cast 2 ams in 12 seconds you can regen a lot. More AMs makes this conserve or throttle phase between LQHQ smoother.

I found 40% plus mastery to be where I could throttle and make it to HQ burns.
With lower mastery you can still burn through LQ. when your done, jump into heavy barage rotations till you can build up enough mana to start stacking Q.

Imo hit the gym; the target dummys. Conveniently placed in the corner of our mage hall, and do 2 -5 minute fights and review your damage meters.

Hope this helps. Wish there was a site like this for my alt

Thank you for this, I just reached 41% mastery, and it is a noticeable difference. I am getting better at the throttle phase. I am really enjoying Arcane, and I love that there is a website like this, my main doesnt have one

[hasublade]

I wonder is cord of infinity gives you 10% mana regen based on your base m.regen or based on current (with mastery)?

[x1xruex1x]

Alrighty guys, I just wrapped my night up in EN Normal. Did a Warcraft Log for the entire night (8p-11p est) so about 3 hours.

Did alright throughout the night, but got caught up dealing with messed up mechanics a bit and lost track of my throttle phase quite a few times. It just becomes very tedious to babysit that and worry about what's going on around you. Got caught in brambles too many times because I was watching my Q stacks, so I eventually said screw it and just let them drop and regen mana instead. Not the best move but had to do what I had to do.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fMNRtZXh2wDWYp4C

I would definitely like to talk more about this. I need to review the log fully myself. In case you're not sure of my character name, it's Felona.

[Saffina]

I thinking Twisting Wind is BiS on bosses with large hitboxes, i.e. raid bosses. It does equivalent damage % as Naraxas' Spiked Tongue, but comes with 600 more stats. In mythics+, it's not so good.

the thing is, even on a boss like ursoc it still does next to no damage

[TheHeretic91]

I've tried out the new Conserve Phase in EN and Karazhan now and I can definitely tell you that it's viable for some and not exactly viable for other bosses.

I feel like this could be a lot of fun to do if only the Quickening buff would last a bit longer than it does currently.

[x1xruex1x]

I've tried out the new Conserve Phase in EN and Karazhan now and I can definitely tell you that it's viable for some and not exactly viable for other bosses.

I feel like this could be a lot of fun to do if only the Quickening buff would last a bit longer than it does currently.

@TheHeretic91,

I do agree with you on that. After my run last night, some fights were definitely good for the Throttling phase, but others it just felt like a full on inconvenience.

I'm going to dabble with a few of the other ideas people had now that I've tested this one thoroughly.

[Vulcani]

Hey all,

Fairly new to arcane and I seem to be struggling to maintain good dps using the no-barrage method. Is there nothing I can do during the conserve phase to keep the APM up? Im only 855iL with ~50% mastery, but I have 2 relics in the AM proc chance increase trait. Even after only refreshing quickening when its about to fall off I still struggle to keep my mana up at a decent level. Is this playstyle perhaps more gear reliant? I do not have any legendaries currently.

[x1xruex1x]

Hey all,

Fairly new to arcane and I seem to be struggling to maintain good dps using the no-barrage method. Is there nothing I can do during the conserve phase to keep the APM up? Im only 855iL with ~50% mastery, but I have 2 relics in the AM proc chance increase trait. Even after only refreshing quickening when its about to fall off I still struggle to keep my mana up at a decent level. Is this playstyle perhaps more gear reliant? I do not have any legendaries currently.

@Vulcani,

Hey there! So there are a couple of elements to this playstyle that I feel are noteworthy:
-It relies on having a decent amount of mastery to start, but a higher amount to perform at better levels
-Timing is everything

With mastery, I've been hearing that your entry to this is around 40/41%. I sit around 58~% and I have plenty of regen possiblities, so I don't fret about running out of mana during the Throttle phase. If I stop around 60% and play it right, I end up with around 80~% when I enter my next HQ Burn phase.

However, this is where the next part takes hold. Timing IS everything with this method.
Yea I have good mana regen, but I swear, forbid I have to handle a mechanic, and am just slightly out of range, or something isn't proc'd just right. I lose my stacks.

Here's a prime example:
You're fighting Ursoc, and get chosen to be the charge target! Ok, so you run to the designated safe-zone. However, it's a smidge out of range because it was setup wrong,.. So you think, what can I do? Well, I don't have an AM proc so I can't just move to the max distance and then refresh Q stacks... I can't blink in to refresh because I risk killing myself and causing problems for the raid... There aren't any adds nearby that I can refresh off of... the timer keeps ticking though

That's the problem you run into. You have to consider all of these actions within a matter of a second or two for reaction purposes.

While I must say, I do enjoy the damage the Throttle can do,.. I do not enjoy the frailty that it is. A single slip up can cost you 30-40 stacks of Quickening, and when that happens, you're basically reset back to a LQ Burn or a LQ Conserve phase. Both of which SUCK if you were lining up for a prime burn time on a boss.

So yea, I'm going to dabble with some other ideas, as well as check my logs versus some of the higher ranking Arcane magi that report to WarcraftLogs.com. I want to find the best way to be consistent, and quality. I've never been a fan of walking a risk/reward line for everything that you do.

[x1xruex1x]

I FINALLY got some better trinkets. Got the Plaguehive and Shock-Baton (Friday & Sunday respectively).

Going to raid Normal Xavius tonight so I'm hoping to get a good feel for how this pans out. I'm up to a 17% crit chance, and down to a 51% mastery. So far I haven't noticed a huge difference in mana regen at least.

I'll hopefully be able to get a good reporting on the increase/decrease tonight.

[Tataie]

I got the 865 version of Bough of Corruption also , a few days ago. I only tested it in mythic+ ( 6,7,8 ) and it does quite alot of damage . roughly 4% or even more.
Now i have another question , regarding trinkets.
How do you value a 850 Trinket with plain int + mastery and socket ? Does the value of int overcome the supposed damage of lets say Naraxxas trinket ?

[Vorrum]

I got the 865 version of Bough of Corruption also , a few days ago. I only tested it in mythic+ ( 6,7,8 ) and it does quite alot of damage . roughly 4% or even more.
Now i have another question , regarding trinkets.
How do you value a 850 Trinket with plain int + mastery and socket ? Does the value of int overcome the supposed damage of lets say Naraxxas trinket ?

That's something you're going to want to sim on yourself.


Which begs the question, anyone know if theres an updated sim profile for arcane?

[Tataie]

Yeah , i guess the current sims arent so accurate. I'd rather test them "live" , although particular trinkets might be better in some fights and bad in others.Hard choices are hard

[x1xruex1x]

Yeah , i guess the current sims arent so accurate. I'd rather test them "live" , although particular trinkets might be better in some fights and bad in others.Hard choices are hard

@Tataie,

I upgraded from a +Int / +Mast / Socket +100-Mast trinket, and a similar trinket without a socket.
I was able to upgrade to the Plaguehive and Shock-Baton.

Since my testing on Sunday, I feel that it's definitely an increase to myself. Went from 58% mastery to 51%, and I'm up to 17% crit now.

In time I'll gather more details on how well it's performing, as well as running some tests against training dummies.
I should also have my logs up for my entire EN Normal run from Friday & Sunday (with Heroic Nythendra attempts). Friday I got the Plaguehive right after Nythendra, and then Shock-Baton on Sunday morning. So It might give an idea how it faires.

[Kythos]

@Rue

regarding the logs you posted on Xavius.

1. From what I can tell you never had any mana problems, no barrage casts. jelly.

If I was looking at this with very critical eyes, I might point out that on this parse there is no 2 and 3 minute MoA... 6 min fight with only 4 casts... also only 4 SN casts. (in this parse around those time frames one might be targeting the adds... I might suggest tabbing over and lighting up the boss with your CDs, then burning the adds.)

Also, I can not tell on this parse when you got placed in the dream...

In the dream phase, either first or second, you can soak puddles for more dps AND you get full CDs and full mana/hp when you exit the dream. This is awesome because you get a "free" double burn with evo in the dream then when you exit the dream you can double burn with evo again.

Overall I think this parse is pretty good, abuse the dream phase and soak puddles.
Besides that it looks pretty normal, pun intended xD

Below is a recent HC Xavius parse from myself. Its not great, but in about the same fight length you can see 6 MoA and 12 SN casts and 12 RoP.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Cm ... e&source=1" target="_blank

Maybe little things but hope a 3rd person perspective was insightful. A parse is a parse, sure you know all this already, but just trying to help my fellow Magi of the Arcane.

[x1xruex1x]

@Rue

regarding the logs you posted on Xavius.

1. From what I can tell you never had any mana problems, no barrage casts. jelly.

If I was looking at this with very critical eyes, I might point out that on this parse there is no 2 and 3 minute MoA... 6 min fight with only 4 casts... also only 4 SN casts. (in this parse around those time frames one might be targeting the adds... I might suggest tabbing over and lighting up the boss with your CDs, then burning the adds.)

Also, I can not tell on this parse when you got placed in the dream...

In the dream phase, either first or second, you can soak puddles for more dps AND you get full CDs and full mana/hp when you exit the dream. This is awesome because you get a "free" double burn with evo in the dream then when you exit the dream you can double burn with evo again.

Overall I think this parse is pretty good, abuse the dream phase and soak puddles.
Besides that it looks pretty normal, pun intended xD

Below is a recent HC Xavius parse from myself. Its not great, but in about the same fight length you can see 6 MoA and 12 SN casts and 12 RoP.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Cm ... e&source=1" target="_blank

Maybe little things but hope a 3rd person perspective was insightful. A parse is a parse, sure you know all this already, but just trying to help my fellow Magi of the Arcane.

@Kythos,

Hey ya! So yea, mana wasn't really an issue up until the very final burn at Xavius being around 18% I got hung up a bit and botched my rotation so I lost a significant amount there.

I saw that my MoA and SN casts are lacking, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't notice that either before you brought it up.
Sadly, I'm one of those individuals, if I start having to shift around a lot to focus on multiple adds, going to multiple locations, or just met with mechanics that aren't favorable to myself, I get flustered easily.

I was in the dream at the 60% bracket (not first group but second). This is something I've talked to tinytiger about as he's one of our other big damage dealers (but he's a BM hunter). We tried HARD to soak puddles and gather corruption to get that DPS boost, but we just couldn't seem to get there. The highest I got was like 71~ if I recall. And yea, I missed a lot of opportunities while in the dream.

However, as much of a loss as it was, there's good to come out of it. I know where my flaws are and how I can try to combat them now, but even at that, for me, it concretes the notion that the Arcane Mage is built around a very strict rotation with very little room for error... if you want to push the higher dps rankings that is.

Overall, I feel I did good in there, but not great by any stretch. It was also our first time encountering Xavius at that, and took 4 attempts to down him. So unlike other bosses that we've done plenty at this point, I'm still very shaky with Xavius as he's new still, same with Cenarius and Renferal.

Best thing we can do is all learn together though ^_^ take the advice and criticism provided and turn it into useful strategies.

I'll probably update my OP guide by this week's end to reflect the details that we've all gone over the past days.

^_^