This site is really slacking.

[kjromero25]

I'm sorely disappointed with this site. I abandoned all other sites in favor of this one because of the attention to detail and information provided. But now, 1 full month into 7.2.5, there is NO updated guide on arcane except a spreadsheet for trinkets. Frost and even FIRE have full updated guides, but arcane gets no love at all. WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT?! What is this fuqery?

[Cames]

Don't let anybody stop you from creating a guide.

[Naustis]

1. You can create one by yourself
2. NOTHING changes for arcane in 7.2.5

[Cames]

There is really only 2 changes in 7.2.5 and they are the legendaries.

The new Ring is very nice and definitely use it if you don't have Shard. If you have Shard, I would say that this depends a lot on your raid composition. If you have a number of Mages with Shard, then that will be the best choice. If you don't then it's up to you.

The Shoulders are okay I guess. Nice for things like Skorpyron or AE fights where you have to stand out of melee. But for 99% of the time, they are not worth it.

So at the end of the day - Kilt + Shard or Kilt + Soul.

[Vorrum]

There is really only 2 changes in 7.2.5 and they are the legendaries.

The new Ring is very nice and definitely use it if you don't have Shard. If you have Shard, I would say that this depends a lot on your raid composition. If you have a number of Mages with Shard, then that will be the best choice. If you don't then it's up to you.

The Shoulders are okay I guess. Nice for things like Skorpyron or AE fights where you have to stand out of melee. But for 99% of the time, they are not worth it.

So at the end of the day - Kilt + Shard or Kilt + Soul.

Spiral is better than kilt for single target. At this point in gear, you really don't need to use barrage. At most I'll use it twice a fight?

[Ianarion]

I've been getting better results with shard+soul on ST but you have to enter conserve fairly early.

[Naustis]

There is really only 2 changes in 7.2.5 and they are the legendaries.

The new Ring is very nice and definitely use it if you don't have Shard. If you have Shard, I would say that this depends a lot on your raid composition. If you have a number of Mages with Shard, then that will be the best choice. If you don't then it's up to you.

The Shoulders are okay I guess. Nice for things like Skorpyron or AE fights where you have to stand out of melee. But for 99% of the time, they are not worth it.

So at the end of the day - Kilt + Shard or Kilt + Soul.

Spiral is better than kilt for single target. At this point in gear, you really don't need to use barrage. At most I'll use it twice a fight?

Don't judge legendary power from the.EN Hc fights point of view


Kilt is much stronger than spiral in any situation.

[Cames]

Guys,

You are arguing about the effectiveness of two Legendaries that were part of this expansion before Tomb...

Which is my point. The only change that might make us change is the new Legendary Ring. The 2 piece and 4 piece are okay, but nothing that I am going to turn my sims upside down for.

[Dakodai]

I'm currently busy writing a guide that covers the (7.2.5) Arcane mage in depth.

I'll adress as much as I can, things I have in mind is:

* explaining talents in depth, including niches.
* legendary ranking, not just based on sims but considering what ones you currently have, which one synergize well and in what situation.
* going over the rotation in depth including the new trinket isage and tier set bonuses.
* fight to fight tactics, positioning and how to parse well based on log observations.
* suggest addons and macros for qol improvement.

If you have any suggestions then don't hesitate to contact me via PM.

Cheers!

[magictricks]

I sim basically the same with kilt archmage and double ring. Maybe it'll change with 4pc but who knows.

[Vorrum]

There is really only 2 changes in 7.2.5 and they are the legendaries.

The new Ring is very nice and definitely use it if you don't have Shard. If you have Shard, I would say that this depends a lot on your raid composition. If you have a number of Mages with Shard, then that will be the best choice. If you don't then it's up to you.

The Shoulders are okay I guess. Nice for things like Skorpyron or AE fights where you have to stand out of melee. But for 99% of the time, they are not worth it.

So at the end of the day - Kilt + Shard or Kilt + Soul.

Spiral is better than kilt for single target. At this point in gear, you really don't need to use barrage. At most I'll use it twice a fight?

Don't judge legendary power from the.EN Hc fights point of view


Kilt is much stronger than spiral in any situation.

How do you possibly need to use barrage more than 2-3 times a fight?

[Cames]

"How do you possibly need to use barrage more than 2-3 times a fight?"

Well, depends greatly on how you use your mana and your evocations. This is the difference to me in play style between using Spiral and Kilt.

So we would normally start with a hard burn phase and get to the point where we have to Evoc.

If you use Spiral, you can execute a 2nd burn phase to the 2nd Evoc. Then you would enter a Conserve phase that you would point at using Barrage. At that point, you are hoping your AP is back up for another burn phase.

With Kilt, you basically enter a Conserve Phase after your Evoc. That means you generally use multiple Barrages until AP is back up again. If you manage your Arcane Missiles properly you can gain mana back and execute mini- burns or have good mana for the next AP.

AP has a 1.5 minute cooldown....a 4 AB + Barr is (without any haste) a 9.5 second rotation. That means you should be able to fit 9 of these between AP/Burns. That will vary with movement and Missile Procs. With Spiral you can 1 evoc for each AP (unless you are expecting to burn a mob down in 3 minutes). I am not sure how you are casting over 30 Arcane Blasts and only 1 Barrage and not be out of mana unless you are getting super lucky with AM procs.

We have (as far as I can tell) awful sim capability with Spiral. I might go that way for ST (Goroth), but I think that fight with adds makes using Kilt stronger - even if they are not full time adds. Barrage hits hard.

[Naustis]

Vorrum are you running some mighty never ending burn phase Arcane build that I do not know? If not then even on fight that are 3 min long you will use at least few barrages.

@came
With kilt you enter conserve phase with 30-40% mana :p and then u wait for go 4ab +abr while waiting for evo /ap.

[Duturu]

Vorrum are you running some mighty never ending burn phase Arcane build that I do not know? If not then even on fight that are 3 min long you will use at least few barrages.

@came
With kilt you enter conserve phase with 30-40% mana :p and then u wait for go 4ab +abr while waiting for evo /ap.

I dont think so, when I had kilt I entered conserve phase at 5-10% mana. You play with charged up when you have kilt. Just do 2 AB into aBar, 3 AM stacks = chargedup into missiles.

[Vorrum]

"How do you possibly need to use barrage more than 2-3 times a fight?"

Well, depends greatly on how you use your mana and your evocations. This is the difference to me in play style between using Spiral and Kilt.

So we would normally start with a hard burn phase and get to the point where we have to Evoc.

If you use Spiral, you can execute a 2nd burn phase to the 2nd Evoc. Then you would enter a Conserve phase that you would point at using Barrage. At that point, you are hoping your AP is back up for another burn phase.

With Kilt, you basically enter a Conserve Phase after your Evoc. That means you generally use multiple Barrages until AP is back up again. If you manage your Arcane Missiles properly you can gain mana back and execute mini- burns or have good mana for the next AP.

AP has a 1.5 minute cooldown....a 4 AB + Barr is (without any haste) a 9.5 second rotation. That means you should be able to fit 9 of these between AP/Burns. That will vary with movement and Missile Procs. With Spiral you can 1 evoc for each AP (unless you are expecting to burn a mob down in 3 minutes). I am not sure how you are casting over 30 Arcane Blasts and only 1 Barrage and not be out of mana unless you are getting super lucky with AM procs.

We have (as far as I can tell) awful sim capability with Spiral. I might go that way for ST (Goroth), but I think that fight with adds makes using Kilt stronger - even if they are not full time adds. Barrage hits hard.

There is no question that barrage is a must on AoE fights. But I don't think I've framed what I've been having issue with well enough. How many times do you need to use barrage to equal a full evocation? Is using multiple barrages better than an extended burn phase?

[Naustis]

Vorrum are you running some mighty never ending burn phase Arcane build that I do not know? If not then even on fight that are 3 min long you will use at least few barrages.

@came
With kilt you enter conserve phase with 30-40% mana :p and then u wait for go 4ab +abr while waiting for evo /ap.

I dont think so, when I had kilt I entered conserve phase at 5-10% mana. You play with charged up when you have kilt. Just do 2 AB into aBar, 3 AM stacks = chargedup into missiles.

You don't play with Charged Up anymore. And u can't stay on 5-10% mana because when AP will be up you won't have enough mana for it.

@Vorrum
What extended Burn Phase. You need to cast Abr to do not go oom Oo

[Cames]

"How many times do you need to use barrage to equal a full evocation?"

Well theoretically you have about 35 or so Arcane Blasts between Evocs with Spiral (double that without). So it greatly depends on Arcane Missile procs because that 35 is going to have some of that replaced by AM. 35 back to back ABs will definitely drive you out of mana from full.

The rest depends upon your setup. My take is I need several Barrages between Evocs. A lot depends on Movement, AM, Downtime (like on Kiljaden). Our last heroic run in Tomb I averaged 5 or 6 per fight. My max was 13 barrages, but some of that was due to movement (Barrage is insta cast and ranged, so if I have nothing better and have to move...Barrage away).

[Jhazz]

I use Kilt + Shard, and Resonance.

For my best parses on heroic:
Goroth: 10 Barrages
Inquisition: 12 Barrages
Harjatan: 11 Barrages
Mistress: 19 Barrages
Sisters: 11 Barrages
Host: 22 Barrages
Maiden: 8 Barrages
Avatar: 16 Barrages

I certainly think more than 2-3 Barrages are needed per fight.

[Vorrum]

I use Kilt + Shard, and Resonance.

For my best parses on heroic:
Goroth: 10 Barrages
Inquisition: 12 Barrages
Harjatan: 11 Barrages
Mistress: 19 Barrages
Sisters: 11 Barrages
Host: 22 Barrages
Maiden: 8 Barrages
Avatar: 16 Barrages

I certainly think more than 2-3 Barrages are needed per fight.

Exaggeration maybe, I should really count myself.

Vorrum are you running some mighty never ending burn phase Arcane build that I do not know? If not then even on fight that are 3 min long you will use at least few barrages.

@came
With kilt you enter conserve phase with 30-40% mana :p and then u wait for go 4ab +abr while waiting for evo /ap.

I dont think so, when I had kilt I entered conserve phase at 5-10% mana. You play with charged up when you have kilt. Just do 2 AB into aBar, 3 AM stacks = chargedup into missiles.

You don't play with Charged Up anymore. And u can't stay on 5-10% mana because when AP will be up you won't have enough mana for it.

@Vorrum
What extended Burn Phase. You need to cast Abr to do not go oom Oo

You get a second mana bar to burn with spiral.

[Jhazz]

Do you have a link to your warcraftlogs? Would be interesting to compare and contrast your use of barrage/spiral.