7.1.5 Spell Changes UPDATED 30/11

[Melondwarf]

blink seems to cancel evocation even with slipstream talented

So then we can either go with Slipstream and be able to cast 2 spells while moving, or we could go Shimmer and cast every spell while moving?

[Falq]

blink seems to cancel evocation even with slipstream talented

So then we can either go with Slipstream and be able to cast 2 spells while moving, or we could go Shimmer and cast every spell while moving?

That sentence is so wrong, you mainly cast 2 spells anyways - AB and AM. Casting one of them while moving is good enough already. As many people stated already, getting interrupt while casting Evo is huge dps loss, and should never happen, thats why we getting cast-on-the-move on this aswell. I don't think shimmer is even close to "cast-while-moving" mechanic since you can only use it twice (3 times if counting displacement) and then you have to wait quite some time, also your movement is quite limited. In my opinion this is very competetive talent tier right now. I wish blizzard put in same tier Ice Floes (or some nerfed version of it), along with Shimmer and Slipstream, that would make great choice for raiding environment

Ice Floes -> few heavy movement window fight
Shimmer -> really fast dodging fight
Slipstream -> a lot slight movement windows fight

That would make this Talent tier very competitive, which never happened while Ice Floes was in the game, just because the choice was bad (movement help vs some useless cc, ppl would always go for DPS gain).

[Melondwarf]

blink seems to cancel evocation even with slipstream talented

So then we can either go with Slipstream and be able to cast 2 spells while moving, or we could go Shimmer and cast every spell while moving?

That sentence is so wrong, you mainly cast 2 spells anyways - AB and AM. Casting one of them while moving is good enough already. As many people stated already, getting interrupt while casting Evo is huge dps loss, and should never happen, thats why we getting cast-on-the-move on this aswell. I don't think shimmer is even close to "cast-while-moving" mechanic since you can only use it twice (3 times if counting displacement) and then you have to wait quite some time, also your movement is quite limited. In my opinion this is very competetive talent tier right now. I wish blizzard put in same tier Ice Floes (or some nerfed version of it), along with Shimmer and Slipstream, that would make great choice for raiding environment

Ice Floes -> few heavy movement window fight
Shimmer -> really fast dodging fight
Slipstream -> a lot slight movement windows fight

That would make this Talent tier very competitive, which never happened while Ice Floes was in the game, just because the choice was bad (movement help vs some useless cc, ppl would always go for DPS gain).

I agree that Evocation should never be interrupted, but how often does your Evocation get interrupted as it is now? the only reason it'd get interrupted now (even without floes) would be a to a knockback which has a simple solution, don't cast Evo when a knockback is coming, as for the "wait quite some time" on shimmer, it recharges 1 charge every 15 seconds, assuming you don't use both in a row means you can blink every 7 seconds not including displacement which is a 30 second cooldown.

There are quite a few mobility fights where you may have to move and cast at the same time, but when you have no quickening stacks to keep up, it takes about 1 second to blink out of it, which you can do while casting your AM/Evo, obviously I haven't done NH but if it limits US that much every other caster class would need a constant "cast while moving spell"

I don't know how much running around you do on a regular basis but personally I don't see it as being *that* much

[Deckzor]

Wow!
I just tested some hours on PTR and maybe i am doing something wrong but my best result was almost 15% less dmg than on live.
I can keep like 380k unbuffed on live over 5 mins and could only manage to hold like 325k on PTR.

It also feels like we are casting in slow motion. Without the 2 instant AB we would be totally screwed during AP.


Hope they tune it a little bit.

[Artistry]

I managed to get up to near 40% haste with 35% mastery, and it still feels like I am trudging through wet concrete to play this spec.

[Beardedflea]

I played a bit of ptr yesterday, and i feel the exact same way. The rotation felt sluggish, and honestly as much as overpowered is a cool little trick, i feel that is a very shallow mechanic and hardly punishing. The playstyle on ptr encourages you to use arcane power whenever you like, and it doesn't matter what point you pop arcane power(whether at 100% mana or 25% mana) you aren't punished. I miss quickening, i miss the concept of getting faster paced and being able to throw out more damage as time went on so long as you were managing your mana.


Presence of mind is okay, but i really feel its a bit shoehorned in.

[Icthas]

So after a series of trials on the new PTR, I have had the best performance with a talent build containing the new Overpower. Unfortunately, even though this combination of talents seems to yield the most damage, it still does not compare to my performance on live. Crossposted from the WoW PTR Forums:

Average iLVL 877, legendary pants

All trials conducted as 6:00 straight DPS on raid target dummy in class hall. No consumable buffs were used. Gear was copied over unaltered.

LIVE SERVER
Talents: Arcane Familiar, Shimmer, Rune of Power, Supernova, Ice Floes, Nether Tempest, Quickening
(Conserve rotation was standard stack and clear, did not "game" quickening stacks by holding dps)

Average DPS over 15 trials: 344773
Standard deviation between trials: +/- 13405

PTR SERVER
Talents: Amplification, Slipstream, Rune of Power, Charged Up, Chrono Shift, Unstable Magic, Overpowered

Average DPS over 15 trials: 315497
Standard deviation between trials: +/- 13001

=======================
SUMMARY
Live DPS: 344773 +/- 13405
PTR DPS: 315497 +/- 13001

DPS difference from live: - 8.5%

Anyone else seeing similar performance or able to suggest something I'm doing wrong?

[Naaldira]

So after a series of trials on the new PTR, I have had the best performance with a talent build containing the new Overpower. Unfortunately, even though this combination of talents seems to yield the most damage, it still does not compare to my performance on live. Crossposted from the WoW PTR Forums:

Average iLVL 877, legendary pants

All trials conducted as 6:00 straight DPS on raid target dummy in class hall. No consumable buffs were used. Gear was copied over unaltered.

LIVE SERVER
Talents: Arcane Familiar, Shimmer, Rune of Power, Supernova, Ice Floes, Nether Tempest, Quickening
(Conserve rotation was standard stack and clear, did not "game" quickening stacks by holding dps)

Average DPS over 15 trials: 344773
Standard deviation between trials: +/- 13405

PTR SERVER
Talents: Amplification, Slipstream, Rune of Power, Charged Up, Chrono Shift, Unstable Magic, Overpowered

Average DPS over 15 trials: 315497
Standard deviation between trials: +/- 13001

=======================
SUMMARY
Live DPS: 344773 +/- 13405
PTR DPS: 315497 +/- 13001

DPS difference from live: - 8.5%

Anyone else seeing similar performance or able to suggest something I'm doing wrong?

You're doing something wrong on Live more than PTR. Probably not managing quickening right. At that gear with the legs you should probably doing over 400 sustained on live.

EDIT: But no thats not horrible for your gear on PTR. They apparently havent tuned anything yet.

[gurudox]

I suspect a lot of the difference we are seeing in numbers on PTR is in part due to the secondary stat nerf. Also, since we are still a ways away from release, more tuning passes will most likely be made. There's no way it's going live at the current performance levels - more likely just testing how the new talents work together.

[MrSnaps]

So I found something interesting, and by accident on the PTR today.

I'm not very strong with arcane, I haven't played it much, I have only utility legendaries, etc. Long story short, on live I can sustain around 320k on a dummy without "cheesing" quickening (just basically doing a burn > conserve rotation).

On Tuesday, I logged on and found that I was able to maintain about 305k in the same gear (872 ilvl, mastery heavy, I'll go into specific stats soon). This, I think, was due to the secondary stat squish more than anything.

Well, today I logged on, and tested my dps again (using standard OP build), and I was sustaining 325k. Weird, I thought, maybe they stealth buffed it on the ptr?

But no, it turns out I had copied my toon over in my FIRE gearset, and my stats were all out of whack, but all the same, it was a dps increase, so I started playing around with it.

So, in my highest possible mastery set, which is 22% crit, 10% haste, 48% master, 1% vers, with mastery food (872 ilvl) I was able to do 303k on a five minute test. Trinkets used were relaxing ruby (870) and Naraxas (850). Important talents of note were Overpowered and Unstable magic

The best dps I was able to do was with the following stats: 32% crit, 9% haste, 30% mastery, 4% vers, with crit food with devilsaur (865) and naraxas (850). (872 total ilvl) 345k dps on a 6 minute test (kind of lost track of the time lol). This was the second test in this particular gear set, where I used erosion instead of unstable magic, as I saw unstable only contributing 4.5% to my overall damage, and i figured 8% flat would be better. When I was using unstable, I did 335k.

So Im curious to see if others can repeat my results here, I did several tests, and the lower mastery set is winning every single time, by a large margin.

I know Im not the most skilled with arcane, but still, it seems like this kind of a difference in damage is worth experimenting with.

[a0kalittlema0n]

I've been running a stat priority similar to yours actually. I run something like:

28% crit
14% haste
32% mastery
6% vers

on live and I'm parsing pretty darn high (granted I have bracers as well) 90%+ on almost all fights minus the mythics that our guild struggles to kill. I've been running this and have found better results, and once again I don't cheese quickening either, so that might add to WHY our results are similar and consistent on live and PTR. Just adding my two cents

[Causese]

Did some testing with legendary trinket, shard, 4piece and following talents https://gyazo.com/b5bb4819aa1eba37d72f2ad1b5b2cf63" target="_blank



Opener appears to be:
1. 4x AB
2. MoA
3. Rune of Power
4. Arcane power
5. Use all arcane missile proccs EXCEPT 1 (so that u don't munch AM with upcoming PoM)
6. Legendary trinket
7. Presence of mind into 2x AB to have a chance of proccing touch of the magi while legendary trinket is traveling.
8. SN if AM <3, otherwise 3x AM into SN or AB

Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WR ... end=242305" target="_blank

[Cablok]

Pretty sure i saw the birth of the universe in that opener

[a0kalittlema0n]

I'm honestly surprised how low the meters drop outside of AP, seems ridiculous how little damage it does outside of AP with OP. Seems like the new fire mage haha

[Naaldira]

I'm honestly surprised how low the meters drop outside of AP, seems ridiculous how little damage it does outside of AP with OP. Seems like the new fire mage haha

That's just a tuning issue. But yeah it is odd that OP makes so much of your damage in your cooldown window since that seems to be something they dont like. OP currently isn't great balance-wise. Temporal shift is better. But it is good IMO to have an option to load more damage into a cooldown window for fights that have priority targets and stuff. Creates actual choice, as long as they end up tuned right. Which will be great.

[TangenteAmoebe]

Anyone else noticed that the Amplification Talent not only increases your Arcane Missile damage by 15%, but also increases the Mana Cost of Arcane Blast per charge by 15%?

Edit: Nevermind it's a Tooltip bug. It says that it does, but it doesn't.

[Raiscake]

So I found something interesting, and by accident on the PTR today.

I'm not very strong with arcane, I haven't played it much, I have only utility legendaries, etc. Long story short, on live I can sustain around 320k on a dummy without "cheesing" quickening (just basically doing a burn > conserve rotation).

On Tuesday, I logged on and found that I was able to maintain about 305k in the same gear (872 ilvl, mastery heavy, I'll go into specific stats soon). This, I think, was due to the secondary stat squish more than anything.

Well, today I logged on, and tested my dps again (using standard OP build), and I was sustaining 325k. Weird, I thought, maybe they stealth buffed it on the ptr?

But no, it turns out I had copied my toon over in my FIRE gearset, and my stats were all out of whack, but all the same, it was a dps increase, so I started playing around with it.

So, in my highest possible mastery set, which is 22% crit, 10% haste, 48% master, 1% vers, with mastery food (872 ilvl) I was able to do 303k on a five minute test. Trinkets used were relaxing ruby (870) and Naraxas (850). Important talents of note were Overpowered and Unstable magic

The best dps I was able to do was with the following stats: 32% crit, 9% haste, 30% mastery, 4% vers, with crit food with devilsaur (865) and naraxas (850). (872 total ilvl) 345k dps on a 6 minute test (kind of lost track of the time lol). This was the second test in this particular gear set, where I used erosion instead of unstable magic, as I saw unstable only contributing 4.5% to my overall damage, and i figured 8% flat would be better. When I was using unstable, I did 335k.

So Im curious to see if others can repeat my results here, I did several tests, and the lower mastery set is winning every single time, by a large margin.

I know Im not the most skilled with arcane, but still, it seems like this kind of a difference in damage is worth experimenting with.

Hi, signed up just to comment on this. I gave this a try tonight and I noticed a significant DPS increase myself. I use the standard conserve rotation as I'm still not comfortable enough with throttle phase to do it in raids. Talents are: AF, Shimmer, RoP, SN, Ice Floes, NT, Quickening.

With my highest mastery gear, my stats are: 19% crit, 13% haste, 50% mastery, 7% vers. I lost 5% crit after obtaining some mastery gear a few days ago, and I did notice a dip in my DPS and it was frustrating me.

After shuffling some of my pieces around, I now have: 25% crit, 12% haste, 43% mastery, 7% vers. Experienced about a 5-10% DPS increase (though I got lucky with missiles proc in a few trials) which is nothing to sneeze at.

This is all just tested on a dummy, but I'll try to get some logs up in the future. Definitely worth looking into.

[Skuzz]

I've said this in differend topics and on discord past week, Crit will be our best stat and haste our worst. Where's mastery you want to get to a certain point (depending on legendaries also).

Now this is more of a theory, something I came up with by doing some calculations of my own, so do correct me if your testing shows very differend results.
I am still working on the haste breakpoint for Overpowered, and the certain points for mastery. though it will probably be something like 30% for Overpowered, and 40% for Temporal Flux. Both Crit values should be around the same, like 30%. haste can be 0 for TF and depending on your AP duration Relics haste breakpoint (if 0) @ 12% (2x PoM ABs and 5 normal ABs and finish with an AM at the very last second). For APs without PoM up you can go 6x AB and finish with an AM at the very last second.
Haste at 11% would be theoraticly be doable, but that requires very low ms, and even then its cutting it close, thats why 12% is just alot safer.
After the 12% breakpoint it is not really worth it to go for the next breakpoint (only to get 1 more cast off), instead of that next breakpoint (which is well over 20% haste required) it is better to go for 1 additional second of AP if you want to fit in 1 more AB.

For Overpowered:
Crit > Haste (breakpoint) > Mastery (certain point) > Vers > Mastery (over certain point) > Haste (over breakpoint)

For Temporal Flux:
Mastery (certain point) > Crit > Vers = Mastery (over certain point) > Haste

For TF the mastery breakpoint is abit higher, and haste at the bottom.
This is because with TF you want to cast as many 4ACs ABs as possible, and all Haste does in your default rotation is reduce AM cast time, which is not worth the haste (better spend on Crit and Vers for instance).

For Overpower things are differend, Mastery loses its value abit, simply because you play from AP to AP, meaning you can have a pretty long conserve in between them and still end up on good dps. The best way of still doing good damage in a longer conserve is with Crits. The reason why haste is higher here than on TF is simply because you'd want to get atleast a number of casts off in your APs (haste breakpoint).

[Xenost]

Burn/Conserve always has been the fantasy about arcane spec though, so it's not that bad if the new arcane ends up to be the old fire for bli², they just don't want all spec/classes to be like that.

[Nissinn]

Speaking of new legendaries, I played around with arcane in Nighthold a bit with the helmet and trinket. The helmet equates for almost an infinite no barrage spec if you have enough mastery couple with bracers. It shines on heavy aoe fights (first scorpion boss in NH) where I was sustaining over 600k dps the whole encounter with close to endless arcane explosion spam.

Also the kiljaedan trinket lining up with arcane power and rune is extremely powerful, it was doing 30% of my overall damage on the scorpian boss encounter. I would most likely use the helm+ring on ST fights but on AOE the trinket has no equal.