Anyone else feel that UM PC is weaker ingame than in sims?

[Komma]

Out of curiosity, is there any possibility the same thing is happening for UM in frosts sims proccing FoF procs?

No.

[indomitus]

Out of curiosity, is there any possibility the same thing is happening for UM in frosts sims proccing FoF procs?

No.

alrighty

[taroboba]

I've ran sims with simc updates, and UM is about 1k dps higher than SN with my haste setup. NT is actually pretty even with SN with my haste values.

In game, I've had good results with UM (I'm geared for haste and have class trinket), but I have to use the modified burn (dump missiles before crystal and only use AM on crystal) for good results. When doing the standard burn and using AM procs after crystal, my DPS feels significantly lower than with SN.

[Valounette]

With Tome you aren't using SN on PC anyway.

Do you have evidence to support this? I don't believe I've seen anyone post sims showing that, and just because AB has a lot of value during AP with tome, Supernova still deals crazy amounts of extra damage due to cleave from prismatic crystal.. plus more arcane missiles etc.

[Velerion]

Fairly sure its the opposite, with doom on the target you put missles into it and switch to pc for sn.

[Velerion]

I'm a little confused at this point. I've been simming and when going with SN it values mastery over haste. I get what people are saying about the utility of SN on many fights, does it clash with the tier bonuses? Should we be switching between UM and NT to keep the haste build optimal?

[Transcendent]

I'm a little confused at this point. I've been simming and when going with SN it values mastery over haste. I get what people are saying about the utility of SN on many fights, does it clash with the tier bonuses? Should we be switching between UM and NT to keep the haste build optimal?

The only thing that clashes with Supernova is the class trinket because of globals during Arcane Power. It already feels strict enough to fit in the occasional Arcane Missiles proc into your Crystal and Unstable Magic allows you have more uptime spamming Arcane Blasts rather than losing one or two due to Supernova globals. However, Supernova is probably better if you only have tier but no class trinket.

It's better with the set bonuses because Supernova generates more Arcane Missiles than Unstable Magic (according to my sims with the class trinket and 4pc, so your mileage may vary) so in turn you generate more heroes and have higher set bonus uptime. Unstable Magic with the class trinket just makes the rotation feel less clunky and, unless Supernova is needed for heavy burst AoE (Kormrok hands, potentially Socrethar ghosts, etc), Unstable Magic does more damage over a sustained period of time.

Concerning the mastery simming higher than haste for Supernova, that's due to Supernova not benefitting from haste. Supernova gets higher damage from mastery and haste is essentially wasted on it whereas Nether Tempest and Unstable Magic both scale with haste.

[DeaThShiNoBi]

The only thing that clashes with Supernova is the class trinket because of globals during Arcane Power. It already feels strict enough to fit in the occasional Arcane Missiles proc into your Crystal and Unstable Magic allows you have more uptime spamming Arcane Blasts rather than losing one or two due to Supernova globals. However, Supernova is probably better if you only have tier but no class trinket.

It's better with the set bonuses because Supernova generates more Arcane Missiles than Unstable Magic (according to my sims with the class trinket and 4pc, so your mileage may vary) so in turn you generate more heroes and have higher set bonus uptime. Unstable Magic with the class trinket just makes the rotation feel less clunky and, unless Supernova is needed for heavy burst AoE (Kormrok hands, potentially Socrethar ghosts, etc), Unstable Magic does more damage over a sustained period of time.

Concerning the mastery simming higher than haste for Supernova, that's due to Supernova not benefitting from haste. Supernova gets higher damage from mastery and haste is essentially wasted on it whereas Nether Tempest and Unstable Magic both scale with haste.

The only thing I'll add to what you said is that Supernova has an indirect conflict with the set bonuses in that it scales like crap with haste, while both set bonuses (especially 2pc) beg for haste gear. We saw the contrast of this in T17 where the value of haste even dipped below multistrike and crit because of how poorly Supernova interacts with it, but T18 has strong haste scaling even when you are using Supernova. As such, since you are going to be gearing for haste regardless of whether you choose Supernova or not, it's simply more efficient to choose a talent that actually wants haste, like UM. Now, let's not make the mistake of thinking this means that UM > SN always, it just uses the stats of our gear more efficiently (we can see this in the fact that UM scales better than SN with higher gear levels).

Actually, I have a question about using SN with the class trinket. I never figured that it would be particularly prudent due to the poor interaction, but if you DID use SN with class trinket, would it not be better to use the SN charges prior to casting Arcane Power? It's not normally how we would burn with SN, and it CERTAINLY would reduce the value of SN, but at least it wouldn't conflict with milking the class trinket for everything you can. I'm unsure about whether the extra value from milking the trinket would be worth it compared to getting the bonus damage on Supernova, but it's a thought.

[Chev]

Moderator warning

Mod: We are getting off topic here. The thread was created because UM in game didn't seem to match the value given to it by SimC. The reason for this has now been identified an corrected. Unless you feel further work needs to be done, keep the discussion of SN vs UM and and the effect of Haste and so on to a separate thread.

[Smaiki]

I'm curious if you knew that:
If UM hits PC, UM damage is also amplified by 30%.
Isn't that a typical "double-dip" because AB damage is already increased?
I thought UM would be just a flat damage amount of AB damage * 0.5

Is this reflected in the sims?

(Sorry for german combat log)
The dummy next to PC takes the normal UM damage.

[Komma]

Is this reflected in the sims?

Yes, it is.

[gameorg]

UM lowers the chance that you get a PoF proc on the Crystal because of the extra damage instances. This is also not reflected in Sims, since Simcraft doesnt use the conditional 2xAB>PC Opener (in case of no early PoF Proc). This might also cause some disparity between Sims and ingame Results.