[7.2] Fire Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

[Flaszka]

Looking at trinkets for ST makes me think if I'm stuck with 875 Sinew and 865 BoC for now as "BiS". I also have 865 Plaguehive w/ socket and most of others (HoV, Prism, Chronoshard, Manacracker, Baton) as 840-850. I don't know there's any point of farming M+ for those.

[Rydis]

2 quick questions:

Why do the updated trinket lists both show that Arans+Chest sims lower than Arans by itself?

Also, why isn't Etheral Urn on the list? It doesn't seem that much lower than Aracnocrystal and is better than sinew.

http://imgur.com/a/JGWF6" target="_blank

[Trig]

Gotta be an error somewhere in the simulation with how it's treating the combination. On a somewhat related note AMR seems to have issues with Aran's too as it's valued extremely high for me which doesn't make a lot of sense. It appears they have the RPPM value correct but I could be reading it wrong.

I imagine the Urn was just missed/overlooked -- it should be one of the better ones to have and your sims show that.

[Zulandia]

2 quick questions:

Why do the updated trinket lists both show that Arans+Chest sims lower than Arans by itself?

Also, why isn't Etheral Urn on the list? It doesn't seem that much lower than Aracnocrystal and is better than sinew.

Arans by itself has a NH level chest, with the chest paired it replaces that NH chest with a base ilvl NH chest and the buff to the trinket does not make up for the ilvl hit to the chest.

Most the stat sticks are excluded from that (any of the ones with average stat budget anyway) as they are fairly easy to eyeball/sim and come in so many varieties that they would both drastically increase sim time and clutter the picture. Stat sticks in general are strong though.

[kryptonpwn]

how are you guys using the fire legendary belt when 30% comes? is it just scorch scorch pyro?

[Elluminea]

how are you guys using the fire legendary belt when 30% comes? is it just scorch scorch pyro?

I have the belt and have been surprised at how responsive Hot Streak seems to be when finishing a cast of scorch if you only have heating up ready. If pyro crits then you will know during the scorch cast and you can then immediately queue up pyro; it will not hardcast one for me under 30% doing this.

[Bradaek]

Hey folks. I tried searching the thread and don't see any answers, so here's my question:

Do you think we should use Alextrasza's Fury with Darckli's Dragonfire Diadem?

I tried it on mythic Cenarius last night and it still seemed significantly/noticeably worse than Flame On, but just wanted to see what you think.

[jacobsmage]

Generic rotation question (I'll sim for my exact stat weights and bis trinkets, etc)

Looking at Single Target.
Assuming going Conf_MI_FO_UM_Met as it seems the best if you can't do sim-perfect cinders (and god I hate cinderstorm). Also conf/pyro seems much the same again, so just going the easier one (conf).

From looking things up it seems you use proplonger (poverty pots) power for fire when using MI.

I 'ASSUME' (looking for advice) the correct rotation would be:
Prepot / Mirror Images / Sinew (if you're still using it, thought I doubt I will be after some sims)
Drop meteor on boss (at 3s left on pull timer)
Start precasting Fireball, combust just before it ends.
Use normal trinkets / racials then do your combustion burn
Fire Blast (FB) > !pyro > PF > !pyro > FB > !pyro > FB > !pyro > PF > !pyro > PF > !pyro > FB > !pyro
Then into filler / fishing for heating ups to do the fireball>!pyro to have double chance to heat up again.

It feels right, but I'd love some weigh ins.
Like some people might not use a pheonix flames as early as I state, but it feels wrong to not have it recharging.
And some people might want to precast a pyro, not we're using poverty pots instead of deadly grace.
So you could prepyro, drop a meteor, start a fireball (combust at end, still before meteor hits) then start your combustion burn. Not sure which would be better.

First time post xoxo

[jacobsmage]

Hey folks. I tried searching the thread and don't see any answers, so here's my question:

Do you think we should use Alextrasza's Fury with Darckli's Dragonfire Diadem?

I tried it on mythic Cenarius last night and it still seemed significantly/noticeably worse than Flame On, but just wanted to see what you think.

It might well be better/comparable in M+, where you have more time between fights for your fire blast to come back up and the 25s on dragons breath can cooldown between packs.

But flame on is amazing on single target fights, I would be using it even with your helm.

Taking 2 seconds off an ~11s cd, and starting the fight / burn phases with an extra stack, seems much better to me. Ideally you should sim both and find out 100%.

Let's try some napkin math.
5 minute fight. 300 seconds.
With AF, say you have 11s fire blast cd. Start with 2, generate 27 more, basically getting 12 more from Dragons Breath. So you have 41 AND 12 DB crits.
With Flame on, say you have a 9s fire blast cd. Start with 3, generate 33 more, so 36 all up.

So with perfect play Alexstrasza's fury does look better. But that's assuming you can dragons breath on CD and not waste the heating up, also that you can use your fire blast before you ever get to 2 stacks, and even with perfect play you're not getting 4 fire blasts in a combust like someone with Flame On will get. Also taking into account that your Dragons Breath probably have a 60% crit chance anyway, I'd go the safe choice (Flame On) for raids.

[Zulandia]

Hey folks. I tried searching the thread and don't see any answers, so here's my question:

Do you think we should use Alextrasza's Fury with Darckli's Dragonfire Diadem?

I tried it on mythic Cenarius last night and it still seemed significantly/noticeably worse than Flame On, but just wanted to see what you think.

It's still slightly behind on single target compared to FO. Pulls ahead 2+ though.

[Haruichi]

I don't think Bracer/Belt will be best combo. You prob shouldn't cast pyro when belt is active, so bracers loose 30% of it's effectivenes.

What? Why? You mean, not to hard cast the bracer proc? Still I doubt it, because bracers still sim +12,5% dps, while belt is only +5,5%.

You mentioned this as a response to my post about legendary brackets, Falq, and I thought you might be right. I was a bit confused as to wording of the tooltips. http://www.wowhead.com/item=132406/marq ... e-sun-king is 300% additional damage and http://www.wowhead.com/item=132454/kora ... ning-touch is 350% increased damage. So I tried to test it. Birthday suited my char up, bar bracers, and cast some Pyros. Normal hits were 32k and Marquee Pyro hits were 129k. So, the 300% are apparantly added and Marquee damage is 4 x normal damage.

Please bear with me, and be kind to point out glaring mistakes in my napkin math here; I'm no math wiz to say the least.

For arguments sake, let's say you have 10.000 spell power. A Marquee Pyro would deal 10.000 spell power x 420% x 4 = 168.000 damage in the space of 4,5 secs. Not counting haste, of course.

If you're not hard casting Pyro's, then you're doing something else with those 4,5 seconds. For example, 3 x Scorch.

A Kora Scorch would then be 10.000 spell power x 60% x 4,5? (not sure here; I don't have Kora and thus couldn't test it, so I'm not sure how the modifier is calculated; as in: What does: "Increased" mean in this case?) Anyway, let's say it's added damage in the same way as with Marquee.

10.000 spell power x 60% x 4,5 (modifier) x 3 casts = 162.000 damage in the space of 4,5 seconds.

Edit: Crit mulitplier. Also, as pointed out below, the most common use of 4,5 seconds in that phase would be Kora Scorch, Kora Scorch, HS Pyro which would be, I guess, 108.000 + (10.000 x 420%) 42.000. Of course, the HS Pyro would leave an Ignite x 2 because of Hot Streak.

I guess if you factor in different iterations of HU/HS procs, you could spend those 4,5 seconds in a number of different ways; however, if the hypothesis is that Kora would make you not hard cast Pyro, I guess it's a fair starting point to compare Marquee Pyro to 3 x Kora Scorch.

As I said, math isn't my strongest suit and I didn't have time to doublecheck anyting; can anyone please point out if the calculations are off or if there's some obvious factor I didn't think to include?

Now, I agree with the point you made as a response to my bracket post: The synergy between the two legendaries could be better. And it seems like it's very close in terms of dps.
EDIT:
For one thing, I forgot http://www.wowhead.com/spell=194239/pyr ... c-paranoia.

[Bcrusha]

Haruichi, the belt makes it so that every scorch crits under 30%. Also, the crit change would probably make the ideal combo Scorch Scorch Pyro.

[Haruichi]

Haruichi, the belt makes it so that every scorch crits under 30%. Also, the crit change would probably make the ideal combo Scorch Scorch Pyro.

Right; missed that part. Done in an awful hurry. I'll update. Also, I guess, since you're crits are guaranteed, you could squeeze in a FB as long as it didn't mess with Combustion burn.

[Imaskar]

Koralon's rotation needs to be investigated. Someone mentioned that you can queue pyro after 2 scorch and it wouldn't hardcast. But I doubt it, need to investigate. Yesterday I used S-S-S+Pyro(FB)-Pyro. That way you don't cap FB's, have guaranteed 4 stacks of PP for the first pyro, chance to 5 stack PP for second and have no problems with hardcasts. But the length of full cycle is a bit long, so even in M+12 I didn't have much opportunities to use it.
The problem with this is you need to properly queue the first pyro, so it is casted before you gain HU from the 3rd S. And you need to have some distance to hit FB mdi-flight of 1st pyro. Couldn't manage to do it closer than ~10 yards.
Also capping PF needs to be addressed. And sometimes I ran out of FBs. In that case you need to switch to simplier S-S-wait-Pyro but I wasn't always ready for it.

[Falq]

Haruichi, I don't think your maths is completely, wrong. You also have to multiply Pyro damage for % crit chance to make damage closer to real situation. Also relics, as stated and maybe some other facts... but it's not huge deal

My point is, and I don't think anyone can argue with it, with both legendaries sub 30% you got better things to do, than hard casting Pyro, so even if it's worth castinh it, it's not as efficient as it was before, because you don't loose few FB casts but instead you loose Scorch on steroids so legendary loose its effectivenes at this point. This issue may not take place with other legendaries so I don't argue that both of them works nicely together, but they are not as effective before.

If wrists are 14% dmg increase, and belt is let's say 5% dmg increase, they don't give you 19% damage increase at any point.

You either have:
14% * 0.7 + 5% = 14.98% more damage if pyro is not worth casting

or

14 + 100% - [%u_gonna_hard_cast_pyro_during_execution] * 5% = which could be similar

This math is not very accurate, only trying to explain my point.

If you took Shard for example into count, then both of their procs does not collide with each other, so if ring was 2% damage increase and bracers 14%, then you can easily add it to have 16% more damage % which is already more than given 2

[Eyliria]

Stupid silly question I Can't find the answer for at work:
Does Mirror Images snapshot your stats at cast?


Also, seeing a lot of mages using Prolonged Power over Deadly Grace... am I missing something? are the coefficient buffs pushing prolonged power up? or is this because of mirror images (that i assume don't benefit from Deadly Grace at all, but would from prolonged power?)

[Falq]

Stupid silly question I Can't find the answer for at work:
Does Mirror Images snapshot your stats at cast?


Also, seeing a lot of mages using Prolonged Power over Deadly Grace... am I missing something? are the coefficient buffs pushing prolonged power up? or is this because of mirror images (that i assume don't benefit from Deadly Grace at all, but would from prolonged power?)

People may be just poor and saving money for new content

[Breakerzeus]

I've read somewhere that Prolonged Power is now a bit ahead of Deadly Grace because of the better scaling of Int.

[magictricks]

Koralon's rotation needs to be investigated. Someone mentioned that you can queue pyro after 2 scorch and it wouldn't hardcast. But I doubt it, need to investigate. Yesterday I used S-S-S+Pyro(FB)-Pyro. That way you don't cap FB's, have guaranteed 4 stacks of PP for the first pyro, chance to 5 stack PP for second and have no problems with hardcasts. But the length of full cycle is a bit long, so even in M+12 I didn't have much opportunities to use it.
The problem with this is you need to properly queue the first pyro, so it is casted before you gain HU from the 3rd S. And you need to have some distance to hit FB mdi-flight of 1st pyro. Couldn't manage to do it closer than ~10 yards.
Also capping PF needs to be addressed. And sometimes I ran out of FBs. In that case you need to switch to simplier S-S-wait-Pyro but I wasn't always ready for it.

they've changed something with how HU and HS interact, it's like they give it to you as soon as you push the button as opposed to when the spell hits,

I've raided mythic and heroic EN and ToV yesterday and today and never once have i had SC, SC pyro produce a hardcasted pyro and i play with 300 latency.

[Chaykaa]

Hello! I watched a bunch of Logs and did not understand whether to use a burst proc Bracer. 50% logs use bracer 50% not used. I'm confused.Sorry if this question has been asked.