[7.1.5] Fire mage guide for Legion, by Rinoa

[TheHeretic91]

Seen a few people on the MMO-C forums say that on AoE involving 4+ targets, even without Aftershocks trait, FS pulls ahead of using Pyroblast for big Ignites. Have there been any sims that corroborate these claims or are these people just talking out of their asses? Because I can't see this being the case at all.

[Kypes]

I "could" see that this is working on groups with minor HP. As ignite would not spread fast enough. Could be completely wrong though

[Kintoun]

Seen a few people on the MMO-C forums say that on AoE involving 4+ targets, even without Aftershocks trait, FS pulls ahead of using Pyroblast for big Ignites. Have there been any sims that corroborate these claims or are these people just talking out of their asses? Because I can't see this being the case at all.

I'm registering interest in this topic as well. I've been skipping Aftershocks on my last 3 points and subscribe wholly to the Pyro over FS on long lived trash. But it's getting to the point where I want to see data. I've ran the sims which use Pyro over FS, but that's of course because the APL tells it to do that. How do I modify the APL to use FS?

[Rumstein]

The math tells me that FS would probably be better at 4+ targets.

With FS you are dealing 180%/target to 4+ Targets for 720%SP total. Say 20% Mastery, they are ignited for 36% SP/8secs each, or an additional 144%SP, giving you 866%SP/Cast. Now this ignite will not proliferate as they are all equal, so 866%SP/cast is consistent. This scales linearly - each target added is an additional 216%SP/cast.
Aftershocks, assuming its around 20% additional damage to FS and doesn't ignite, will add 36%SP/cast, taking FS to 252%SP/target/cast.

With Pyro, you are dealing 400%SP to one target, with 80%SP/8sec as ignite, or 480%/cast. This ignite will proliferate, and manage to get each target over a cast, at roughly 75%/50%/25% effectiveness. So over that 8 seconds, your ignite would do 80%/60%/40%/20%SP damage to respective targets, totalling 600%SP/cast. On 5+ targets, that ignite will not add much, so Pyro will cap at around 625%SP/cast

Now FS cannot trigger HU/HS while Pyro can, but at 866%SP vs 600%SP (44.3% more damage/cast from FS), is the HU/HS proc worth more?

At 3 targets, FS is 648%, vs 580% from Pyro - HU/HS is worth the 11.7% damage increase that FS would show per cast.

On top of that, Conflagration and Phoenix Reborn trigger with SP% independent of ignite strength, on ignited targets. At 4 targets, you are slowly ramping up how many targets can proc Conflag/PR using Pyro, while FS allows all targets to trigger this from the start (Alleviate this with Pyro by using Phoenix Flames first though).

[KAMBO1431]

Read what you wrote. They are different. The fact they are different by 1% does not make them not different.

You should probably read what I wrote then go look up the term significant difference and perhaps also look at testing the difference between means or an anova, that will put it into context for you.

[Curnivore]

look up the term significant difference

It's subjective. 1% is an important difference to most min maxers. It's a usual upgrade range.

[Mushmouth]

What is happening with the stats on the t19 gear? Only one piece is main stat crit, and only 2 pieces have crit at all. Isn't that really going to screw over fire stat wise?

[Xenost]

It means we will have to use these pieces: head/gloves/cloak/shoulders , on chest and legs we miss too much potential crit I think.

[Falq]

It means we will have to use these pieces: head/gloves/cloak/shoulders , on chest and legs we miss too much potential crit I think.

That's prob true. Bonus isn't great either.

[Xenost]

Probably good enough to make it BiS, at least the 4P

[jimme]

Is there a list of the dungeon cloth loot anywhere. I have a few pieces that are 840 and below still (861 ovr) and would like the know which dungeons I should target for mythic+.

[Kypes]

Hey,

not sure if it was already asked but how do you handle Flame On if you are using kindking?
I see a lot of situation where combustion has 40 seconds left on the CD and Flame On is ready. Now I could use Flame On but since I run kindling, combustion will be ready in less than 30 seconds. Therefore I would not have Flame On ready during combustion. Is it a DPS loss to not use Flame on? Or should I use it regardless of combustion?

Right now I am delaying it to have it ready when I use combustion.

[Falq]

Is there a list of the dungeon cloth loot anywhere. I have a few pieces that are 840 and below still (861 ovr) and would like the know which dungeons I should target for mythic+.

Haven't really check all of them but Neltharion's Lair looks one of the best. BiS relic + Crit Chest with some other crit-heavy items.

[Choda]

Is there a list of the dungeon cloth loot anywhere. I have a few pieces that are 840 and below still (861 ovr) and would like the know which dungeons I should target for mythic+.

Haven't really check all of them but Neltharion's Lair looks one of the best. BiS relic + Crit Chest with some other crit-heavy items.

Don't forget one of the best trinkets in the game.

[TbXie]

Hey,

not sure if it was already asked but how do you handle Flame On if you are using kindking?
I see a lot of situation where combustion has 40 seconds left on the CD and Flame On is ready. Now I could use Flame On but since I run kindling, combustion will be ready in less than 30 seconds. Therefore I would not have Flame On ready during combustion. Is it a DPS loss to not use Flame on? Or should I use it regardless of combustion?

Right now I am delaying it to have it ready when I use combustion.

I am pretty positive that you are doing it correctly.

[JasonFawfull]

Once we've acquired the double flamestrike artifact trait, at how many mobs should we start using our Hot Streak procs on Flamestrike?
I'm assuming that it'd still never be recommended to hardcast Flamestrike, even with this trait.

Also, if we were able to pick the the Dragon's Breath legendary, at how many mobs should we start using Dragon's Breath? And what does its priority become in both single-target and multiple-target scenarios?

Thanks for the time.

[nickseng]

Also, if we were able to pick the the Dragon's Breath legendary, at how many mobs should we start using Dragon's Breath? And what does its priority become in both single-target and multiple-target scenarios?

Use on cd, both ST and AOE.

[ray007]

As an ilvl of 857 my Intellect stands @ 29224 no pots/flasks while my crit is @ 65% . Are these stats normal for my ilvl ? even with my fake ilvl of 865 my Intellect hovers around 30355 which I believe should be alot higher.

[Sartiv]

Hello my friends mages!

I began again to play wow after 1 year. After 1 month I've reach 854 lvl, and i have a lot of items gear on my inventory and i'm a bit confused:

I should trying to MAXIMIZE my critical strike, even if for example i have

1st item: 900 int, 1000 crit and 500 haste
2nd item: 1100int, 800 crit and 500 versatility
3nd item: 1000 int 1200 crit and 200 mastery

what i should to wear ?

All in all, no matter about ilvl of item, i should choose a 840 item with max critical instead of 880 item with -100 crit but +150 int?

[kamui]

Hello my friends mages!

I began again to play wow after 1 year. After 1 month I've reach 854 lvl, and i have a lot of items gear on my inventory and i'm a bit confused:

I should trying to MAXIMIZE my critical strike, even if for example i have

1st item: 900 int, 1000 crit and 500 haste
2nd item: 1100int, 800 crit and 500 versatility
3nd item: 1000 int 1200 crit and 200 mastery

what i should to wear ?

All in all, no matter about ilvl of item, i should choose a 840 item with max critical instead of 880 item with -100 crit but +150 int?

Those numbers make no sense. Why do you have a 900 Int item with 1500 secondary stats but your 1100 int item with 1300 secondary stats? If they're hypothetical, they're quite off. Non-crit secondary stats matter, so don't dismiss them as trivial. In fact, for certain gear setups, haste can be almost as good as crit and also above Int.

The short answer is do the simulations yourself since this is a very specific question and your stats weights change depending on your currently equipped gear, talents, and fight duration. And no, you should not take a 840 crit piece over an 880 piece (unless it's a a Wrist with socket or a Neck/Ring). From those 3 hypothetical gear you presented, choice 3 is the clear answer.

Make sure to fully read the first post of this thread.