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How to optimize your two and four piece usage for Fire Mages.

So, with more and more mages finishing off t17 tier bonuses, there has come more and more confusion about how to properly use 2 and 4pc, combined with combustion, lvl 100 talents, and just the overall rotation and semi-removal of pyroblast banking. (holding pyro procs until hu+fireball in the air).

I've created this thread to hopefully clear up some of the issues people have with these bonuses and how to properly use them. I tried to keep it short and concise, since there's a lot of tiny details that could be discussed, but I think these are the major issues.

Let's go over 2 and 4pc bonuses first:
2 pieces (Fire) : Inferno Blast now has 2 charges. (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=165458/ite ... e-2p-bonus" target="_blank)
4 pieces (Fire) : When Pyroblast! activates, you have a chance to cause all Pyroblasts to have no cast time and be guaranteed critical strikes for 4 sec. (Approximately 0.70 procs per minute) (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=165459/ite ... e-4p-bonus" target="_blank)

At first glance, 2pc seems to just be a means to get extra pyroblast procs by being able to turn heating up into pyroblast procs. However, it has bigger consequences:
1. Pyroblast camping becomes less favourable, since you will be sitting on un-used inferno blast procs quite often when camping.
2. It gives us a lot more freedom with cleaving, since it allows us to use inferno blast to both gain pyroblast procs, and use it to spread our dots, opposed to only doing either of those, or both of them poorly.

So, how do we make the most out of 2pc?
- Stop pyroblast camping when you got at least one inferno blast available.
Since inferno blast is a guaranteed crit, hits quite hard, and is our main means of gaining pyroblast procs, you don't want to sit on 2 stacks not being used, ever. So, whenever you got one stack of inferno blast, and you got a pyroblast, just shoot the pyroblast. If it crits, you can inferno blast after you finished your currently casting fireball (or after the gcd of the pyro ended, if you're close enough to the boss and got the reaction speed required), and if it doesn't crit, nothing was lost because if your next fireball crits, you can simply turn it into a new pyroblast proc, OR, if your second inferno blast is coming off cooldown you can simply double inferno blast, and then start pyroblast camping again until at least one inferno blast comes back off.

- On cleave fights, use inferno blast to get a pyroblast proc out of heating up, use the pyroblast, and immediately spread the ignite+pyroblast dot with inferno blast again.
Fire cleaving is very complicated to do 100% optimally, so it's hard to put in a single sentence, but always make sure that whenever you shoot a couple of pyros, you spread the big ignite with inferno blast as often as possible. Use inferno blast agressively, since you got two of them. Sometimes "wasting" inferno blast without getting a pyroblast out of it is completely fine.

- Turn a single heating up into pyroblast + heating up after a GCD.
Scenario: you cast fireball, and immediately after you cast blast wave, so your fireball lands during the GCD of blast wave, it crits, and there's no other spells in the air. Double inferno blast after this to turn the heating up into pyroblast!+ heating up, and then continue pyroblast banking until inferno blast comes off cooldown again. This applies to any scenario where you got a pyroblast! proc, there's no spells in the air, and you got inferno blast available.

- Use the 2pc trick to gain really big combustions on cleave fights.
This is too much info to put here in its own text, but komma made a nice write up of it here: http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1137" target="_blank . You don't need to use PC for it, you just need a secondary target for it.

- If you ever have two stacks of inferno blast available, you messed up somewhere.
This isn't really a tip, but more a general guideline. Be agressive with your inferno blast usage, and never sit on 2 stacks of inferno blast, as it's a lot of wasted potential.

That's great, but how do I make the most out of 4pc?
- Use a weakaura/TMW popup, preferably with sound, to track when it procs!!!
This is the weakaura I use: (it shows the icon, with a duration timer, and makes a horn noise when it procs to ensure you don't miss it. - Get more than 800 haste!
To be able to fit in 3 pyroblasts in one 4pc proc, you need at least 13% haste (preferably more like 15% due to reaction time, latency, etc) which comes down to roughly 700 haste. You want to aim for like 800-900 haste to make it smooth. Getting 3 pyros instead of 2 pyros in one 4pc c is very important.

- Be prepared for 4pc procs.
Whenever you havent gotten a 4pc proc for quite a while, be really prepared for it. Turning that heating up into a pyroblast proc? Don't be mashing your fireball button and accidently queuing it up, and then notice 4pc proccing. This brings me to my next point..

- Be close(ish) to the boss.
The closer you are to the boss, the faster your spells will land, and the longer you have to react to 4pc proccing and not starting your next fireball cast. The downside is, if you're too close to the boss your spells will lands almost instantly, and if you get a pyroblast proc off a fireball you will have already spent half a second of your 4pc duration before your GCD is over. Whether this is a problem or not depends on your haste and reaction time.

Great post

Re: haste and 4piece

This is a really strong breakpoint, and for some gear sets it can be your strongest stat, even above mastery and crit in some situations, as shown by these few posts: http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic ... =40#p10906" target="_blank

after i got 4 pieces, never munch pyro. Iam trying to spam it as soon i got it for possible 4 p proc. Actually i can much it for some combustion situations

How important is the 900 haste break point exactly? Would it be worth Gemming/Enchanting to? TLTeo's sims seem to indicate it would be, if I am reading his results correctly.

Keep in mind my sims were really really rough (not enough iterations), and they were done before the 4set nerf. I can rerun them; i guess the APL has been updated?

If you want to be certain about haste value, you'll want to make a scaling stat plot instead of just computing scaling factors. That way, you will be able to see if it's a bump in the line (ie. breakpoint") or actually genuine scaling strength. I wouldn't be surprised if haste is among the strongest stats for Fire with the change to haste rating conversion.

If you want to be certain about haste value, you'll want to make a scaling stat plot instead of just computing scaling factors. That way, you will be able to see if it's a bump in the line (ie. breakpoint") or actually genuine scaling strength. I wouldn't be surprised if haste is among the strongest stats for Fire with the change to haste rating conversion.

Keep in mind, that travel time has a fair bit to do with it, so even if simcraft shows a certain breakpoint, it can be more/less depending on your distance from the boss.

Keep in mind, that travel time has a fair bit to do with it, so even if simcraft shows a certain breakpoint, it can be more/less depending on your distance from the boss.

I think the breakpoint only happens when using IB to trigger the buff though, and IB doesn't have travel time. If you're triggering 4T17 with a pyro crit, breakpoints are unlikely to be an issue.

If you want to be certain about haste value, you'll want to make a scaling stat plot instead of just computing scaling factors. That way, you will be able to see if it's a bump in the line (ie. breakpoint") or actually genuine scaling strength. I wouldn't be surprised if haste is among the strongest stats for Fire with the change to haste rating conversion.

That's exactly what i did, with and withoout 4set: http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic ... =40#p10924" target="_blank

The difference in how haste scales is pretty clear there

Well I meant that you needed to plot it against other stats, just to make sure that it isn't actually stronger than say, mastery on single target!

But yes, the breakpoint is indeed very visible.

Just wondering, how would i do that in simcraft? Enable plots > check say mastery, haste and crit?

I'm re-running those sims right now, i'll do it for all the stats as soon as these complete

Yep, just check a few different stats like you said.

Sims done! It appears that the breakpoint is worth gearing for. These are the scaling plots for the default heroic and mythic profiles, which have respectively 674 haste rating, or 12.86% haste raid buffed, and 773, or 14.02% haste raid buffed:

TL -
I'm becoming a bit confused (easy to do!) with the different numbers projected to this point.
I believe that earlier Dutch was saying to shoot for a 900 haste rating (roughly 10% iirc), whereas you're proposing numbers dissimilar to that.

I personally sit at (now) 901 haste with a 10.02% according to Mr. Robot, unbuffed. My buffed reading is 15.51%. As an iLvl 673 fire mage, which is the number(s) i truly need be concerned with?

Sorry for my confusion, but thank you for any help!

TL -
I'm becoming a bit confused (easy to do!) with the different numbers projected to this point.
I believe that earlier Dutch was saying to shoot for a 900 haste rating (roughly 10% iirc), whereas you're proposing numbers dissimilar to that.

I personally sit at (now) 901 haste with a 10.02% according to Mr. Robot, unbuffed. My buffed reading is 15.51%. As an iLvl 673 fire mage, which is the number(s) i truly need be concerned with?

Sorry for my confusion, but thank you for any help!

You need 7.43% haste, absolute minimum. (which is like ~670 rating) This is assuming raid buffs. Actually performing it ingame with the delay etc with less than 800 haste is very hard though.

Sims done! It appears that the breakpoint is worth gearing for. These are the scaling plots for the default heroic and mythic profiles, which have respectively 674 haste rating, or 12.86% haste raid buffed, and 773, or 14.02% haste raid buffed:

It is comforting to see the haste breakpoint and relative scaling strength between secondaries match our expectations. I was worried that the haste rating conversion buff would have made haste scale stronger than we even expected.

SimulationCraft says the haste breakpoint is worth about 260 dps for my gear at 903 haste.This chart makes it very easy to see.

Thank you for this info and thank you VERY much for the weak aura. I just got my 4-piece earlier today, and using this together let me finally get a 5k combust with no flask or pot! On the test after that I flasked, potted and got 2 procs back to back in the opener. I had my mythic shards of nothing up so I got at least 3 pyros out of both procs before I combusted, this resulted in a 6k combust. I was very pleased This was at 684 ilvl

http://i.imgur.com/tcgMQeJ.jpg" target="_blank

Thank you for this info and thank you VERY much for the weak aura. I just got my 4-piece earlier today, and using this together let me finally get a 5k combust with no flask or pot! On the test after that I flasked, potted and got 2 procs back to back in the opener. I had my mythic shards of nothing up so I got at least 3 pyros out of both procs before I combusted, this resulted in a 6k combust. I was very pleased This was at 684 ilvl

http://i.imgur.com/tcgMQeJ.jpg" target="_blank

This is a very specific case and doesnt showcase the average dmg Increase of Haste. In a fight you need alot of attempts to have a 4P--> Combustion. Ofc you can waite with your combustion on a Dummy, but in a real fight this is a DPS loss, because of not using the Combustion cd asap (assuming you waite longer than a few seconds).

Iam currently running Plots which will provide further Information, but since 1 sim takes about 10 Min i wont be finished for quite some time

This is a very specific case and doesnt showcase the average dmg Increase of Haste. In a fight you need alot of attempts to have a 4P--> Combustion. Ofc you can waite with your combustion on a Dummy, but in a real fight this is a DPS loss, because of not using the Combustion cd asap (assuming you waite longer than a few seconds).

Iam currently running Plots which will provide further Information, but since 1 sim takes about 10 Min i wont be finished for quite some time

Um, I never intended for it to showcase the average damage increase of haste? I'm a troll so I don't need to worry about that, I can pop berserking at the end of the first GCD of the proc and get 3 pyros no matter what. After ~1 minute i'll use shards in anticipation of the next proc... Rinse and repeat.

I was just happy for the OP's info is all.

Edit: Was just testing it and it seems like i'll be going for the 900 haste anyways, the proc does seem to happen often during the downtime after using shards to anticipate the opening proc and then berserking during the 2nd, shards is usually up again after this but i'd rather make the most out of every proc and not have to rely on shards since I hope to replace it soon.