Koralon's Burning Touch DPS loss?

[Hyperdiaper]

I was lucky enough to have gotten my first legendary today, Koralon's Burning Touch. But I now I am beginning to question if this is actually a dps gain. Let me explain.

Currently it is a dps gain to use a pyroblast proc directly after a fireball, since if only one of the spells critically strikes, Heating Up will proc and you can immediately Fire Blast and repeat this process. With the Koralon's scorch is not a projectile and will instantly strike the target whilst your pyroblast is still in the air.

After testing on raid dummy, I have had situations occur where:
1. I have pyroblast proc
2. Cast scorch into instant pyroblast.
3. Scorch critically strikes giving me a heating up proc
4. Pyroblast projectile then hits the target, does not critically strike, and cancels out my heating up proc.
Because of this I am at a total lost for the rotation that I should be doing sub 25% or if it is even worth it to scorch.

Now for Lvl 100 talents
Icyvein's recommends going with cinderstorm if you have this legendary since scorch does not proc kindling reducing combustion cd. In a lot of the current mythic dungeons that I have been doing I'm finding myself able to fit 2 combustions in. Especially going into mythic+ and raid bosses that last much longer, I'm still leaning towards kindling. Would love to know everyone's thoughts on this.

Just as summary, my current impression of this legendary feels like it doesn't have much synergy with much of fire's rotation or artifact for that matter. Currently the only time I use scorch is if I find myself out of ice floes or I have no heating up/pyroblast procs and for some reason was not chaining fireball casts.

[nuwn]

I have also been lucky enough to have found this legendary.

Just to add to your comments, scorch also does not gain any benifits from the Enhanced Pyrotechnics, meaning that you actually gain more hotstreaks with fireball.

Therefore the clarifiy:
1) scorch has no travel time, so with hot streak active, a scorch + pyro will mean that the scorch hits before pyro uses the hot streak proc. Scorch hitting before using up hot streak is wasting a potential heating up proc, whereas fireball does not have this issue. (do the simm's account for this?)
This feels cluncky as we loose out on potential heating up procs.
2) a scorch does not benifit from Enhanced Pyrotechnics, meaning it can take more casts to proc heating up.
3) artifact tree contains fireball dmg bonus and fireball cast speed bonus traits, scorch just has a movement speed trait.

The question is after all these have been taking into account, does the flat damage bonus to scorch become advantageous to use over fireball under 25%.

[Thisgame]

anecdotally I found it to be a DPS loss for 5 mans on beta. That said, with raid bosses lasting significantly longer it might be "ok" at least according to sims but frankly with how most of the raid fights are looking I don't see it being better on top of the fact that it is clunky as all get out AND doesn't synergize with a great many abilities and artifact points.

[fieryphoenix]

Enhanced pyrotechnics causes fireball to crit more reliably, but scorch has a significantly lower cast time. I wonder at what amount of crit the shorter cast time gives more heating ups/second, compared to enhanced pyrotechnics.

Also, being free to move as much as you want without sacrificing any dps during the often chaotic last bit of a first kill on a raid boss is also a huge benefit IMO. Would love to see a world first where a fire mage is kiting the boss with this legy and the speed boost from scorch at the end.

[Xzaar]

The way I see it, this legendary would simply make scorch a less of a DPS loss during movement. Below 25% boss health, you could simply cast scorch on the move instead of icy floes + fireball.

Otherwise I think this legendary is simply a stat stick.

[Skozen]

Just to add, scorch can mess up your pyretic incantation stacks if you let it finish casting after you proc a hot streak, stealing a lot of damage from your pyroblast if pyroblast crits. I think you might have to cancel casting the superfluous scorch for best DPS. Awkward but doable and the casting time spent on a scorch when you already have a hot streak is time wasted anyway.

[Grumpdogg]

Just got these today, was wondering if you guys have any tips on how to make best use after getting hands on in heroic last reset?

[Anthyous]

I got these on Saturday actually,the only problem that I initially recognized was the fact that scorch does not proc enhanced pyrotechnics. I did not even consider the fact that scorch doesn't count towards kindling or ruin some pyro procs due to its lack of travel time. That being said the ability to have free movement during execute phase, lets say during heroic Xavius, is hugely useful. Additionally the sims say that this should be a dps increase over the default T19 profile. Though we would have to consider the fact that this could be a dps increase just due to the item level.

[Biowned]

Just got this Legendary from my +10 chest, if I got this when Legion released I would be happy. The only good thing about getting it now is that it won't be able to drop again.

[lve2raft]

I would like a comment on this too from a mod or theorycrafter - to me these seem like a dps loss to use scorch.

[zhasin]

I would like a comment on this too from a mod or theorycrafter - to me these seem like a dps loss to use scorch.

Theory and practice mostly not the same thing. Sure if using scorch gonna lose benefit from additional 10% crit for each noncrit fireblast, but offten executing phase (perk works below targets 25%hp) is very intensive time of fight when you not able for standing still and casting fireblast alot. Can save IceFloes charges for execute phase, but for me its more losing dps (usualy have less 1 or 0 charges when it comes to execute). Ofcourse when its not strugling to kill boss (for example normal farming kill) better calm using fireball, but who cares about dpsrankings in dummy like encounters

P.S. Dmg from legandary perk scorch aprox same as fireballs dmg, but shorter cast time...

[skiz]

I have also been lucky enough to have found this legendary.

Just to add to your comments, scorch also does not gain any benifits from the Enhanced Pyrotechnics, meaning that you actually gain more hotstreaks with fireball.

Therefore the clarifiy:
1) scorch has no travel time, so with hot streak active, a scorch + pyro will mean that the scorch hits before pyro uses the hot streak proc. Scorch hitting before using up hot streak is wasting a potential heating up proc, whereas fireball does not have this issue. (do the simm's account for this?)
This feels cluncky as we loose out on potential heating up procs.
2) a scorch does not benifit from Enhanced Pyrotechnics, meaning it can take more casts to proc heating up.
3) artifact tree contains fireball dmg bonus and fireball cast speed bonus traits, scorch just has a movement speed trait.

The question is after all these have been taking into account, does the flat damage bonus to scorch become advantageous to use over fireball under 25%.

Scorch + Pyro interaction depends on:
- Your crit %
- Your latency
- Your distance from boss

I.e. Lets say you've combustion up: you're able to do scorch + pyro while just having 1 HU not HS. Just run around while spamming keys will stop you from hardcasting pyro. You're effectivly dodging the spellqueue mechanic which is kind of meh, but its okay.

Without 100% crit you just replace fireball with scorch. I.e. scorch + pyro on HS not on HU mostly. However, on fixed crit / noncrit situations from those spells the results are hard to describe. It mostly works out for me to have working spell interactions during mythics.

3) is a huge issue on scorch vs fireball without belt. Obviously scorch belt lowers theoretically value from fireball relic.
2) is anoying.

Worth to mention:
- Kindling does not work with scorch. Kindling + Belt = shit. No scorch as far as I*ve looked into it.
- Kindling sucks ass during mythic+ dungeons. Cinderstorm is the way to go. (Don't forget living bomb)
- I think its obvious enough from frosted posts when this is an increase.
- I don't know if someone has looked into scorch replacing more than just fireball during execute.

[Grumpdogg]

Re: Kindling
In practice it is unlikely that 10-15 (number from logs) fireball crits after 25% will grant you another Combustion via Kindling before the boss dies, unless your Combustion has been perfectly synced for the fight length. Knowing the fight length is difficult during progression. So I believe that Kindling is still viable with Koralon's.

Re: Scorch vs Fireball crits
WIth regards to Scorch missing out on Enhanced Pyrotechnics, does it matter? I have 64% crit (food + DMC). Scorch does get x1.1 chance from Critical Mass.

Scorch @ 64% (70% with CM) crit: avg 1.42 casts to get HU = 2.13s
Scorch @ 64% (70% with CM) crit: avg 3.47 casts for 'natural' HS = 5.21s
Fireball @ 64% (70% with CM) crit: avg 1.35 casts to get HU = 2.97s
Fireball @ 64% (70% with CM) crit: avg ?.?? casts for 'natural' HS = ?.??s I am having difficulty with this maths
* 'Natural' Hot Streak is purely from casting the spell (no Fire Blast or Phoenix)

Re: 'Munching' Heating Up procs
Heating up has an 'immunity' period of 0.25s in which it cannot be erased. Unfortunately Pyroblast has a travel time so we must be very close to the boss in order to eliminate munching. On the training dummy my testing shows that a range of 0 to 5 yards is required.

Re: Free to move during last 25%
Hard to value this with numbers, but can be useful. Make use of this to exploit the 5 yards range limit as above. However you will still be tethered to your Runes of Power as normal and Fire Mage is very mobile even without Scorch.

[Pathe]

The way I see it, this legendary would simply make scorch a less of a DPS loss during movement. Below 25% boss health, you could simply cast scorch on the move instead of icy floes + fireball.

Otherwise I think this legendary is simply a stat stick.

I think this is about the most accurate description of this legendary. Obviously, if you have the TW ring or the Marquee bracers - use them. But if this waist is all you got (like i do) then simply enjoy them from the insane amount of Int and the nice crit/haste.

For everything else, it just makes scorch less of a DPS loss and i dont know about you, but i still find myself casting scorch quite a few times during an encounter. Once we spend some time in this raid, we will naturally become more efficient with our movement and be less reliant on scorch, but by that time i would hope that we will have our choice of legendaries to equip anyway.

To give you a few examples: My guild is currently progressing on Ursoc Mythic and the last 25% of the fight are both movement intensive and very hectic in general. I am sure that casting scorch more freely will improve my quality of life there significantly

A final note on Scorch's synergy with other core talents/abilities - I didnt see anyone mentioning that Scorch doesnt proc UM, which i think is actually much more important than Enhanced Pyrotechnics.

[Hyperdiaper]

Without 100% crit you just replace fireball with scorch. I.e. scorch + pyro on HS not on HU mostly. However, on fixed crit / noncrit situations from those spells the results are hard to describe. It mostly works out for me to have working spell interactions during mythics.

This makes complete sense to me. The higher your crit, the less enhanced pyrotechnics will really matter.
I have 62% crit and I rarely have to cast more than 2 scorches before getting a heating up proc. But with lower crit levels, the reliance on enhanced pyrotechnics to get that first initial crit for heating up proc is much greater.

It would be interesting to find out at what level of crit is it worth it to full on scorch.

[Kaptajnkolat]

I got the belt and im really happy about it!
and therefore I would like to join the discussion of the value of this item.

i have done two tests no buffs, nothing on same target.
My target dummy was the 110 pvp one in SW (its below 25% threshold) to activate Koralons!

just ignore all els but the Fireball and the scorch comparison. i fireballed 21 Times and i Scorched 36 times.
No buffs, no RoP, no nothing!

Armory link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... lat/simple" target="_blank

Documentation.
http://imgur.com/a/6RYDK


i think the numbers speaks for them selves, so i wouldnt just call it a stat stick.
and ofc, the benefit of a 100% mobility uptime while the scorching phase starts.

ofc, PI can have effect in the damage range, and maybe its not fair to value both with not equal amounts of casts, albeit i still think its fair to say that scorch is stronger <25%

further more for discussion is the time delay for the HS effects is a loss or not, but i dont see any loss in active gameplay.

I primarily play Mythic + dungeons with friends, where i believe the least effect of the belt is present, hence the execute phase is really short compared to a raid encounter.

*first post here, treat kindly

[magictricks]

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/132454-koral ... ning-touch" target="_blank

It's been changed to always be a Crit under 25% now, obviously blizzard thought it sucked.

[Pank]

Scorch is only affected by 50% of spell power. What's the formula to calculate spell power anyways? Since without ice floes I see myself casting scorch a lot more especially since I have the legendary as well. There was a lot of fuss around koralons already cuz it was determined useless or a very little dps increase with losing on kindling and pyrotechnics ( fireball critical chance) synergy.

Since it will always be a critical, how does it hold up on ptr if anyone's tested it already?

[Lorlan]

I own the belt and tried it out on the ptr. Ignoring the dmg numbers of scorch, the mechanic is pretty flawed. You can neither cast: Scorch -> Scorch -> Pyro, or Fireblast -> Scorch -> Pyro. If you hammer on your Pyro keybinding while casting Scorch you will always begin to hardcast Pyro. You have to wait a bit before you get the Hotstreak proc: Scorch -> Scorch -> wait -> Pyro.

I believe it's a communication problem between the client and the server. I finish casting Scorch but my client doesn't know yet that the Dmg was a crit. So it must wait for the server to answer that it actually was a crit and I can get my proc.

This kind of kills the belt for me.

[Rikx]

I own the belt and tried it out on the ptr. Ignoring the dmg numbers of scorch, the mechanic is pretty flawed. You can neither cast: Scorch -> Scorch -> Pyro, or Fireblast -> Scorch -> Pyro. If you hammer on your Pyro keybinding while casting Scorch you will always begin to hardcast Pyro. You have to wait a bit before you get the Hotstreak proc: Scorch -> Scorch -> wait -> Pyro.

I believe it's a communication problem between the client and the server. I finish casting Scorch but my client doesn't know yet that the Dmg was a crit. So it must wait for the server to answer that it actually was a crit and I can get my proc.

This kind of kills the belt for me.

Off the top of my head, is it possible to do Scorch-Scorch-Cinderstorm-Pyro, Scorch-PF-Pyro?