Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Pyromaniacs of Azeroth.
Nizmo
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Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Nizmo Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:12 pm

So last night I was lucky enough to have the Legendary Bracers drop for me! I popped them on and it took a while for them to proc on trash but the first boss they seemed to proc quite a bit. Largest pyro I recorded was 2.2mil!

Question: On the opener I noticed the bracers procced on my second hot streak and I ignored until my opener was complete. DPS was great but I was wondering if there is a new/different rotation with these bracers? Should I have hard casted on the first proc instead of waiting for the end of the normal blast/pyro opener to end?

2nd Question: The buff lasts 15 seconds so I was able to cast RoP on the first proc no problem. The second one RoP had 8 sec left so I held the buff until RoP was back up. By this time I had another hot streak which then Pyromaniac procced and gave me another insta-pyro. I casted RoP, threw my pyro, pyro then had missed the proc. I am guessing I should have just hard casted when I had the chance. My question here is should I spec into Congflag so this does not happen, hard cast ASAP or was this just Good/Bad RNG?

This is my first time posting on the forums, been reading for years and always have found the answers i was looking for. This however I couldn't find anything.

Thanks in advance!
Kaeporah
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Kaeporah Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:44 pm

I haven't been lucky enough to get these bracers yet but to my understanding you should hard cast pyro anytime you're not doing your combustion combo. It's not worth holding the charge waiting for something. It has a decent proc rate and you can essentially pyro camp the same with the hard casted pyro as you would a fire ball.

Essentiality, I believe using the proc asap to ensure not wasting potential procs would be best.

Disclaimer: this is speculation. I could be wrong.
Potaetoe
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Potaetoe Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:42 pm

Depends, if you're in your opener you are obviously not going to stop the opener for the hardcast. But i'd say once the opener is completely over you use it as soon as you can. 1.5-2m dmg over 4s is greater than Fireblast + Flame Blast + Pyroblast x 1.5. In my opinion. I think if you sim it'll be similar.
Rlo
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Rlo Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:34 am

First off it's always better to hardcast it when it procs unless you're in combust and also try to get it in with a RoP and you will really see some major damage. I suggest timing your combust outside of Lust/Warp because that time should just be used for casting Pyro's from the Legendary. I looted this one too and it's really strong I personally recommend setting up a weakaura so you can see when it procs.
Xenost
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Xenost Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:44 am

It seems to have higher damage per execute time than PB, so it's definitely good for RoP sequence and probly bad for combustion sequence (due to the total number of PB being way lower if you hardcast one)
Biowned
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Biowned Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:36 pm

RoP > Hardcast + Combustion when you're about to end cast > Normal PB spam
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whisperingsage
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby whisperingsage Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:30 pm

You don't ever want to hardcast pyro between RoP and Combustion. You lose at least two pyros during RoP because of the cast time desyncing the buffs.

The only thing you would ever want to hardcast between RoP and Combustion is Cinderstorm, and even stacking Pyretic to five stacks in one cast is only an increase if you can land all the cinders. Even then you still lose a pyro, but you have full stacks at the start of your burst instead of five casts in.
Biowned
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Biowned Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:53 pm

You don't ever want to hardcast pyro between RoP and Combustion. You lose at least two pyros during RoP because of the cast time desyncing the buffs.

The only thing you would ever want to hardcast between RoP and Combustion is Cinderstorm, and even stacking Pyretic to five stacks in one cast is only an increase if you can land all the cinders. Even then you still lose a pyro, but you have full stacks at the start of your burst instead of five casts in.
Totally wrong. You lose 2-3 Pyros on the first RoP, but you deal 4 times the damage on that pyro (300% additional damage), which is greatly increased by RoP, and around 40% of that damage in Ignite due to combustion. We're talking about close to 3M in one single cast. Then you can keep going with your normal pyro spam for the remaining duration. Even if you're fitting less pyros in one RoP, you're still doing more damage.
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Vexra
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Vexra Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:03 pm

You don't ever want to hardcast pyro between RoP and Combustion. You lose at least two pyros during RoP because of the cast time desyncing the buffs.

The only thing you would ever want to hardcast between RoP and Combustion is Cinderstorm, and even stacking Pyretic to five stacks in one cast is only an increase if you can land all the cinders. Even then you still lose a pyro, but you have full stacks at the start of your burst instead of five casts in.
Totally wrong. You lose 2-3 Pyros on the first RoP, but you deal 4 times the damage on that pyro (300% additional damage), which is greatly increased by RoP, and around 40% of that damage in Ignite due to combustion. We're talking about close to 3M in one single cast. Then you can keep going with your normal pyro spam for the remaining duration. Even if you're fitting less pyros in one RoP, you're still doing more damage.
'Totally wrong' is kind of a weird statement if the difference is that small.

Pyroblast has a 4.5 second cast time and we have a 1.5 second global. As haste affects both things just the same, hard casting Pyro results in exactly 3 lost Pyroblasts.

The bracer Pyro deals 300% more damage, resulting in a 1600% spellpower Pyro that crits followed by a ~40% Ignite for a total of 3200% single target damage and a 1280% spellpower Ignite => 4480%.

Hot Streak on the other hand grants twice as strong Ignites.
3 Pyros deal 1200% spell power before crits followed by a ~80% Ignite each for a total of 2400% single target damage and a 1920% spellpower Ignite => 4320%.

As soon as the Ignite is allowed to spread to a second target it's a damage loss to use the hard cast Pyro. Even single target I wouldn't do it for that small amount of damage, as you can still use your hard cast Pyro afterwards but you can't properly play the Pyro chain without Combustion.

I obviously could be missing something, but I don't think he is 'totally wrong'.
Unreal
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Unreal Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:03 pm

Not to mention that chances are you won't get the proc until some time late in the burst chain, rendering a hardcast pyro as a dps loss because you'd run out of combustion and of rop while casting it. In terms of consistency, it's probably a lot smoother to play with a pyrohardcast on the 2nd rune, however if you're a min/maxer, go for the hardcast pyro during burst.
Biowned
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Biowned Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:11 pm

You don't ever want to hardcast pyro between RoP and Combustion. You lose at least two pyros during RoP because of the cast time desyncing the buffs.

The only thing you would ever want to hardcast between RoP and Combustion is Cinderstorm, and even stacking Pyretic to five stacks in one cast is only an increase if you can land all the cinders. Even then you still lose a pyro, but you have full stacks at the start of your burst instead of five casts in.
Totally wrong. You lose 2-3 Pyros on the first RoP, but you deal 4 times the damage on that pyro (300% additional damage), which is greatly increased by RoP, and around 40% of that damage in Ignite due to combustion. We're talking about close to 3M in one single cast. Then you can keep going with your normal pyro spam for the remaining duration. Even if you're fitting less pyros in one RoP, you're still doing more damage.
'Totally wrong' is kind of a weird statement if the difference is that small.

Pyroblast has a 4.5 second cast time and we have a 1.5 second global. As haste affects both things just the same, hard casting Pyro results in exactly 3 lost Pyroblasts.

The bracer Pyro deals 300% more damage, resulting in a 1600% spellpower Pyro that crits followed by a ~40% Ignite for a total of 3200% single target damage and a 1280% spellpower Ignite => 4480%.

Hot Streak on the other hand grants twice as strong Ignites.
3 Pyros deal 1200% spell power before crits followed by a ~80% Ignite each for a total of 2400% single target damage and a 1920% spellpower Ignite => 4320%.

As soon as the Ignite is allowed to spread to a second target it's a damage loss to use the hard cast Pyro. Even single target I wouldn't do it for that small amount of damage, as you can still use your hard cast Pyro afterwards but you can't properly play the Pyro chain without Combustion.

I obviously could be missing something, but I don't think he is 'totally wrong'.
While that's right, it's far more consistent to guarantee the bracer Pyro crit. Not criting bracer pyro makes a HUGE difference, while (Let's say you have 60% crit chance) not critting one or two of the three pyros doesn't ruin your damage as much. (You still have FB + PF).

Also, dont forget that in a cleave scenario, you will hit the bracer pyro and you're going to use your normal pyro rotation afterwards, w/o combustion on the last pyros. If you do it the other way around, you're letting your ignite sit idle for 4s resulting in a much lower ignite damage overall.
Unreal
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Unreal Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:42 pm

While 4s may seem like a major dps loss, don't for get we always have ignite idle for 2s (fireball casting time) unless we fireblast while channeling. Not to mention that the hardcast pyro also generates a strong ignite afterwards.
Glitzerbling
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Glitzerbling Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:13 pm

While 4s may seem like a major dps loss, don't for get we always have ignite idle for 2s (fireball casting time) unless we fireblast while channeling. Not to mention that the hardcast pyro also generates a strong ignite afterwards.

Ignite spread happens every 2 sec and is a server side tick event. Ergo it might spread right after application or just before the second tick.

btw ignite sitting "idle" has nothing to do with anything. Dmg will still be applied. 2 sec earlier or later doesnt f-ing matter.

however the bigger ignite share from using Hotstreaks does matter. so multiple targets always hotstreak over hardcast during CB.
Glitzerbling
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Glitzerbling Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:30 pm


Totally wrong. You lose 2-3 Pyros on the first RoP, but you deal 4 times the damage on that pyro (300% additional damage), which is greatly increased by RoP, and around 40% of that damage in Ignite due to combustion. We're talking about close to 3M in one single cast. Then you can keep going with your normal pyro spam for the remaining duration. Even if you're fitting less pyros in one RoP, you're still doing more damage.
'Totally wrong' is kind of a weird statement if the difference is that small.

Pyroblast has a 4.5 second cast time and we have a 1.5 second global. As haste affects both things just the same, hard casting Pyro results in exactly 3 lost Pyroblasts.

The bracer Pyro deals 300% more damage, resulting in a 1600% spellpower Pyro that crits followed by a ~40% Ignite for a total of 3200% single target damage and a 1280% spellpower Ignite => 4480%.

Hot Streak on the other hand grants twice as strong Ignites.
3 Pyros deal 1200% spell power before crits followed by a ~80% Ignite each for a total of 2400% single target damage and a 1920% spellpower Ignite => 4320%.

As soon as the Ignite is allowed to spread to a second target it's a damage loss to use the hard cast Pyro. Even single target I wouldn't do it for that small amount of damage, as you can still use your hard cast Pyro afterwards but you can't properly play the Pyro chain without Combustion.

I obviously could be missing something, but I don't think he is 'totally wrong'.
While that's right, it's far more consistent to guarantee the bracer Pyro crit. Not criting bracer pyro makes a HUGE difference, while (Let's say you have 60% crit chance) not critting one or two of the three pyros doesn't ruin your damage as much. (You still have FB + PF).

Also, dont forget that in a cleave scenario, you will hit the bracer pyro and you're going to use your normal pyro rotation afterwards, w/o combustion on the last pyros. If you do it the other way around, you're letting your ignite sit idle for 4s resulting in a much lower ignite damage overall.

HC Pyro critting or not makes the same difference as 3 HS Pyros critting or not. However, if you do the 3 HS Pyros outside of CB, they will take a much lower Mastery x2. While HC Pyro is not affected by the lower mastery as much, since the ignite share in that dmg is much lower.

And "ignite sitting lower for 4 sec" has nothing to do with anything. Only the average numbers as posted by Vexra matter. Just take an example and work it out in your head and do a second one.
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Lahrast
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Lahrast Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:23 am

so after looting those babies i can say that the dps gain is real. i jumped from 260k dps to roughly 300k (and further 320k with wriggling sinew) ST - you just have to use them properly

plan im using is:
having (or forcing) a heating up!
while having the bracer-buff, begin to cast pyroblast
while 2-3s through the cast cast a fireblast to get a 2nd pyro asap as well as extend the duration of pyretic incatation
-hopyfully get teary eyes from a 2,2m pyro crit follow by a 600k instant pyro + ignite- :D

actually i managed to pull aggro from cenarius' adds serveral times with this this evening :(

st logs -> https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Cn ... e&fight=15" target="_blank

but the suspicion some here had seem to be legit, it seems to be that if there are more than 2 targets stacked up you want to cast as many HS Pyros as possible and only "fill" with HC pyros - given you have so much procs that you would have to choose anyway - which is sometimes the case... sometimes totally not ^^
Last edited by Lahrast on Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Biowned
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Biowned Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:01 am



HC Pyro critting or not makes the same difference as 3 HS Pyros critting or not. However, if you do the 3 HS Pyros outside of CB, they will take a much lower Mastery x2. While HC Pyro is not affected by the lower mastery as much, since the ignite share in that dmg is much lower.

And "ignite sitting lower for 4 sec" has nothing to do with anything. Only the average numbers as posted by Vexra matter. Just take an example and work it out in your head and do a second one.
I'd say this is wrong too.

First of all, you're not losing time on CB, you're losing time on RoP. You will throw exactly the same number of PB that you would in a normal rotation, but the last 2 or 3, depending on the haste, won't fit inside the rune so those will deal 50% less damage.

Let's say we're in Xavius, we know the Tentacles are about to spawn and we want to have an ignite as huge as possible on the target so it spreads ASA the tentacles spawn. If you HC the pyro after the normal nuke, you're losing Ignite power (AFAIK). Instead, if you start with a HC pyro, all you will lose is 50% dmg from the rune on the last 2-3 pyros(You will still have Combustion even if you dont have RoP on the last 4s).

Waiting 4 seconds after a nuke reduces the damage of the ignite due to the "any remaining damage will be added to the new ignite". Waiting 4s means losing close to half of your ignite.
Wightwind
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:15 pm

Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Wightwind Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:36 pm

I just want to ask for clarification, is the consensus at the moment that you just need to cast the HC pyro as it comes up? Except during combustion burst? or should you try and save the proc for a RoP? or should you just HC whenever and use RoP if available?
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whisperingsage
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby whisperingsage Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:26 am

The last one. According to sims, the only reason you wouldn't hardcast is if you're losing or delaying hot streak pyros.
Dtox
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby Dtox Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:55 pm

Hey guys I was lucky enough to get these bracers a couple days ago, my question is. I have wriggling sinew and I know that CiS works well with it because cooldowns are always sync, but the one thing I dont like doing is hard casting pyro and CiS and I am not sure if thats a dps loss since you refrain from your normal rotation for awhile. Would it be better to just use Kindling with this legendary alongside the sinew trinket?

I will have to do further dummey testing but would like thoughts.
dewun
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Re: Marquee Binding Rotation Question's

Unread postby dewun Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:18 pm

Hey guys I was lucky enough to get these bracers a couple days ago, my question is. I have wriggling sinew and I know that CiS works well with it because cooldowns are always sync, but the one thing I dont like doing is hard casting pyro and CiS and I am not sure if thats a dps loss since you refrain from your normal rotation for awhile. Would it be better to just use Kindling with this legendary alongside the sinew trinket?

I will have to do further dummey testing but would like thoughts.
With my gear (I have bindings and sinew aswell) CiS simms only slightly higher (1-2k inc. from 370k) so I've just defaulted to using Kindling. Like you said the additional hardcast of CiS feels awkward.

On a sidenote I tend to wait for a combustion with 2nd Sinew use unless the wait is more than a minute, in that case I use it with RoP and hope for a crit.

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