Legendary Bracers and possible haste soft cap?

[aimbag]

Let me start off by saying I have been prioritising Haste > Mastery since dropping the Marquee Bindings of The Sun King. My simcrafted ST stat weights have been looking something like this up until today:

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Now today I upgraded a couple pieces sacrificing some mastery for haste and so my haste went up from 19% to 23%. My Sim dps went up as expected but the interesting thing is that my new weights look completely different. Here's what I'm seeing now:

Spoiler:

I've been experimenting with a few pieces and it seems like somewhere around 6.7k/20.5% haste it becomes suddenly much less valuable. Anyway, my plan is to go back to prioritising mastery over haste but try to keep around that 20% haste mark. Any ideas on what might be the cause of this or some hard haste point numbers/interactions to look out for?

My armory for reference: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/z ... ban/simple

[Woke]

What were your stat weights like for 4 target AoE? Just curious. I'd generally not worry/try to maintain the 20% haste long-term, because haste I'd think will be your worst for 4 target or any form of 2+ targets, which is all of Mythic Emerald Nightmare.

[aimbag]

Sure thing. Here are 2 targets and 4 targets respectively (before 20% haste).

Spoiler:

I'm fully aware of the value of mastery but when haste is so far ahead for single target and still doing reasonably well for cleave I think it's ok to prioritise it.

[Frederik22]

Do you really want this much haste ?

[aimbag]

Do you really want this much haste ?

If you don't have the Marquee Bindings of the Sun King then probably not. In the case where you do I've found that haste is very worthwhile up to about ~20.5%/6690 rating after which point it takes a shit. Ultimately it's up to you though because mastery will be strictly better for AoE.

[aimbag]

Update: I figured out that reforge plots are a useful thing today.

Here's what my haste vs. mastery looks like (Baseline = 6835/21.03%):

Spoiler:

So this graph definitely confirmed to me that there is something going on with haste at around 6.7k. The big jump in dps in the middle of graph happens between 6685 and 6585 haste which is about 20.5%.

At this point I have pretty much come up what I think is the cause of it. 20% haste is an important point to reach when you have the Bindings of the Sun King because that allows you to cast RoP + Hardcasted Pyro before the Pyretic Incantation buff falls off (1.5sec + 4.5sec)/1.2 = 5sec which happens to be the duration of PI. This is a pretty important interaction because from experience I know it's pretty common to proc a fat pyro off a combustion sequence which will leave you at 5 PI stacks. The 25% damage multiplier on a spell which is already critting for 2.2M is quite huge damage wise.

[dewun]

With 20,5% haste you gain one more GCD in the Combustion+RoP 10s window making it >8 GCDs. With my gear I gain about 1% dps. This gain does not seem worth in real world since you are sacrificing important mastery for cleave.

I don't think this 6.7k haste has anything to do with the bindings and pyro hardcasting since PI lasts 6s.

[aimbag]

With 20,5% haste you gain one more GCD in the Combustion+RoP 10s window making it >8 GCDs. With my gear I gain about 1% dps. This gain does not seem worth in real world since you are sacrificing important mastery for cleave.

I don't think this 6.7k haste has anything to do with the bindings and pyro hardcasting since PI lasts 6s.

Good point about PI and the combustion window. I don't doubt haste barely makes a difference for you if you don't have the legendary bracers but in my case it is about 30% more valuable than mastery on single target and only 30% worse than mastery on 4+ targets. It felt like a worthwhile trade-off IMO.

[dewun]

Yea sorry forgot to mention, I do have the bindings.

I'm just not seeing the same results with my gear. I do see a slight increase in ST, but the cost of losing out in AoE feels bad. Even now with moderately high haste I wish I had more mastery for better M+ cleave and at the same time not really losing out on ST since haste~=mastery.

I do also have the Suramar dungeon haste proc set, maybe that is making a difference here? Or a trinket? I'm just not seeing the same greater value for haste vs mastery with MY gear so I wouldn't consider this a rule of thumb. Interesting thought though.

Single target:
talents=1122121

Spoiler:

AoE 5 targets:
talents=2122111

Spoiler:

My gear for reference:

Spoiler:

head=,id=134424,bonus_id=3412/1502/1813
neck=,id=139332,enchant_id=5439,bonus_id=1807/1808/1472,gem_id=130219
shoulder=,id=134432,enchant_id=5442,bonus_id=3411/1497/1813
back=,id=139248,enchant_id=5436,bonus_id=1805/1808/1492/3336,gem_id=130219
chest=,id=137352,bonus_id=3411/1512/3337
wrist=,id=132406,bonus_id=1811
hands=,id=121325,enchant_id=5444,bonus_id=3410/1808/1522/3337,gem_id=130219
waist=,id=137413,bonus_id=3412/1502/1813
legs=,id=134218,bonus_id=3432/1512/3337
feet=,id=137319,bonus_id=1727/1502/3336
finger1=,id=137438,enchant_id=5427,bonus_id=3418/1532/3337
finger2=,id=134526,enchant_id=5427,bonus_id=3410/1497/1813
trinket1=,id=139326,bonus_id=1805/1487
trinket2=,id=141482,bonus_id=1472
main_hand=,id=128820,bonus_id=730,relic_id=3417:1512:1813/3414:1527:3337/1805:1497:3336,gem_id=137492/137303/139256/0
off_hand=,id=133959,relic_id=0/0,gem_id=0/0/0/0

[aimbag]

Hmm yeah, you're totally right about haste not being all that good with your setup. Maybe it has something to do with my trinkets which are both proc based? No idea.

[carrybag]

"Big jump" Doesn't appear to be that big?

[aimbag]

"Big jump" Doesn't appear to be that big?

5k dps is significant when you're talking about min/maxing the value of your secondaries I'm not sure what you were expecting.

[sawbossnl]

So is there a cap that you need for the wrist or is it still 1800 and as much crit/ mastery?. as people say that there arent alot of single target fights im wondering about that. As you got nyt ursoc and than you got spiderboss that is mostly single target cenarius you rather wanna burst one add down first mostly il gonoth is also single target prio adds and the ichors are mostly killed by hunters xavius is also not a big cleave fight as we get 1 big add and thats about it
And cenarius well if we wanna kill ourself than yea stacking mastery woult be wise
(Btw i see most aoe fight like il gonoth and spider boss spiderlings more like padding than increasing dps )

So getting more haste isnt all that bad i think but yea im just thinking for myself im just wondering

Thinking out loud
Hope to get a good answer for this

[Superj]

i noticed the same thing at around 20% haste also, my stat weights would show haste over int as well when i was very close to 20% then being over 20% it would move haste to the bottom stat

[Toluun]

PI last 5 seconds not 6, so your theory on RoP + Pyro may be correct

[Lammer]

I do not have legendary bracers, but I can confirm that it is possible to observe a big jump of haste weight (like from 8 to 13) in Simcraft, if substituting 1 piece of gear for another (for me it was 870 boots with/without haste). So the theory about 1 more pyro into the combust window is probably valid