Fire mage DPS comparison Live vs PTR build 7.1.5 (23109)

[Hachiun]

What if they simply made is so that Flame Patch only triggered when Flamestrike was instant-cast (i.e. Hot Streak)?

That could potentially keep it out of the ST rotation while leaving Flame Patch a viable alternative to LB.

Or make it only apply when hitting 2 or more targets. Its an easy fix tot he FS single target rotation.

I'm not a fan of using FS on single target (specially hard cast), but if it comes to that to be the best i can, I guess ill do it. I still think a nerf is coming to it tho, it makes no sense to me.

[Mage]

I'm not a fan of using FS on single target (specially hard cast), but if it comes to that to be the best i can, I guess ill do it. I still think a nerf is coming to it tho, it makes no sense to me.

I'm not so sure it will be nerfed, because it is only viable on simcraft fights with 0 movement, of which in NH there are exactly none.

[Hachiun]

I'm not so sure it will be nerfed, because it is only viable on simcraft fights with 0 movement, of which in NH there are exactly none.

Maybe not. I havent done anything on the PTR this time around. Just trying to put ideas in the discussion. I wouldnt mind using every other proc for an instant FS to maintain the FP dot going, but hardcasting is super painful.

Didnt know it was only viable for 0 movement, thought it was more of cast every time you can situation (as in FS is the filler and the HS spender).

[magictricks]

Actually, as long as the boss stands still ( which is atleast half of the fights) it's quite viable to FS spam, if you save 2 PFs and 2FBs for movement then you can keep the fs dot going pretty much all the time.

[Stokie]

Was playing around with gear/talents to make my final decision for Tues; stay fire or switch to arcane. Had a bit of a surprise, makes me wonder if the current build of Simc is broken.

Fire ilvl 884 with shard and belo'virs legendaries

Arcane ilvl 887 with shard and prydaz

For fire-live st: 434,131 dps, crit 1.34, haste 1.05, vers 1.04, int 1, mast .87
For fire-ptr st : 586,230 dps, crit .17, haste -.32, vers .85, int 1, mast .86

Arcane was around what I was expecting,

Arcane-ptr st: 470,483 dps, crit .74, haste .75, vers .81, int 1, mast .70

Anyone else getting reports like this? 150k buff to st fire damage is not what I was expecting.

[Nimdro]

Was playing around with gear/talents to make my final decision for Tues; stay fire or switch to arcane. Had a bit of a surprise, makes me wonder if the current build of Simc is broken.

Fire ilvl 884 with shard and belo'virs legendaries

Arcane ilvl 887 with shard and prydaz

For fire-live st: 434,131 dps, crit 1.34, haste 1.05, vers 1.04, int 1, mast .87
For fire-ptr st : 586,230 dps, crit .17, haste -.32, vers .85, int 1, mast .86

Arcane was around what I was expecting,

Arcane-ptr st: 470,483 dps, crit .74, haste .75, vers .81, int 1, mast .70

Anyone else getting reports like this? 150k buff to st fire damage is not what I was expecting.

Seems off. If anything you should be 50k behind the arcane sim.

[wqopreuiyt]

The PTR sim is showing me at 100% crit rate, you might be seeing the same.

[Smaiki]

The PTR sim is showing me at 100% crit rate, you might be seeing the same.

You better download the latest 7.1.5 version. I had the same problems with PTR mode.
http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D" target="_blank

[Vulcos]

Anyone having an issue with SimCraft 710-03 using the PTR mode (actually Live 7.1.5) and seeing all spells at 100% crit? Know a fix? Already tried uninstalling and deleting the folder.

[Syxx]

Do you know what the dps is for the heroic version of Whispers in the Dark is? Didn't see it in the list, just the mythic version. Thanks.

Oh yeah, one more trinket I didn't see was Brinewater, right now i'm using an 885 one with crit and a socket.

[nickseng]

Anyone having an issue with SimCraft 710-03 using the PTR mode (actually Live 7.1.5) and seeing all spells at 100% crit? Know a fix? Already tried uninstalling and deleting the folder.

You need to use the 715 version from the nightly builds

[Imaskar]

Well, logs for two days show that fire is still ahead of other mage specs, but behind even more ther classes now. How do you feel?
On the bright note, our M+ performance seems to have been improved.

[Breakerzeus]

I tested the new Build with AF+Diadem & Koralons yesterday in raid and compared it with that of last week. I lost around 5% crit, but gained more than 1000 Int.
During raid, I had the feeling that I do less DPS. It just felt that way because of the lack of Burst and more cast of Fireballs and ,while moving, Scorch. But in the End, the Logs have shown, that in fact I did more DPS in almost all Fights. Sometimes it was equal but most of them were better that last week. Especially the DMG of Koralons is nice. The DPS is going up when hitting 30% Boss Health and using Scorch. Scorch then hits for 247k. That's pretty insane. Also Meteor while RoP hits like a truck.
So my opinion is, that the Patch didn't hit us that hard. It just changed the way we do dmg. At least I'm less concerned about our future for now.
We'll see how it works out with NH gear and the new Set.

PS: Of course, that only applys to those, who have the mentioned legendaries. If you have none of it, I'm not sure how it will work out.

[Imaskar]

Yeah, but all this while retries do 600k+?
Not to mention shadow.

[Covery]

Well.. if you want to know my opinion i will split it in two parts : Numbers (facts) and Feeling (subjective)

Numbers :

Our dps has been increased on every fight, the problem is that blizzard has not used their aura to balance classes.

If you check 7.1 stats :
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/12#region=1" target="_blank
Then if you check 7.1.5 stats :
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/12#" target="_blank

You can notice that we are exactly in the same spot, im actually thinking that the gap between the best dps and the worst dps has been increased.
4p may fix this gap. But i don't think so because tiers for classes were simulated and it seems that for almost every classes the gain between 0p and 4p is around 6%.


Feeling :

Iam bored when im playing fire.
Like almost everybody iam playing MI + Meteor because this is what is siming higher for me but i found these 2 two skills very boring.

I mean we are using a 2min CD just to see 3 adds pop around and casting fireball.. It does not impact our character or our rotation. I don't have the feeling that my character is very powerfull for a few seconds like i can have when im using PI on my SP, metamorphosis on my DH.
Im not saying that MI is bad, it is a powerfull cd and you can see that in your skada/recount/details, one more time.. im just speaking about feeling when using it.

Concerning meteor it is a stupid skill..
it is even more stupid if you are using it with MI (because it sims higher in my case) because you are just using it on CD except when you can align it with a combustion soon.
It is also so annoying to cast in PU with random tanks having fun to move boss for no reasons.
I also hate to waste a gcd during my combustion for this skill.


TL;DR :

As fire my dps has increased but i still cannot catch up good dps players (Ret, SP and Rogue especially) even if im playing at 95% on my ilvl bracket.
Im not enjoying the new talents that we are "force" to play with if we want to do our best dps possible.
My fire mage is having bracers, helmet and TW ring. Im also artefact 54 so i don't have any specific reason to farm with it anymore while waiting for NH.. I will farm a bit with my SP because im just having more fun when im playing with it at the moment and it may become again my main (my priest was my main in HFC)

[jahrastafari]

Yeah, but all this while retries do 600k+?
Not to mention shadow.

Not every spec can be the #1 DPS in the game. Two choices here. Either you maximize your spec to play it as competitively as possible and cope with the fact that you're not automatically the top DPS on every fight, or you go chasing the FoTM spec.

[pbob]

I try not to overthink it, doing pretty well comparatively as Fire. Doing significantly better since the patch released.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LN ... w=rankings" target="_blank

[Hachiun]

Yeah, but all this while retries do 600k+?
Not to mention shadow.

Not every spec can be the #1 DPS in the game. Two choices here. Either you maximize your spec to play it as competitively as possible and cope with the fact that you're not automatically the top DPS on every fight, or you go chasing the FoTM spec.

The point is not to make to the top DPS, at least not my point, the point is to not be so far behind. There is an assassination rogue in my guild that does 200k+ more dps then everyone else. Yes he does have his BiS legendaries and is one of the guys that has the highest artifacts, and I dont mind that, the problem to me is the size of that gap, not that the gap exists.

What I understood from blizzard talks in the past the goal is that the gap between classes is at 10% ish dps from top to bottom of the charts from similar skilled players. a jump from 415k to 615k is way bigger then the 10% target...

[Eggochiggo]

Has blizzard fixed the underlying issue with gear for 15 or even 10 ilvl gear gaps are always upgrades? Has anyone had any scenario where if they equip something 10 ilvls or higher their dps has went down?

[illwil]

Has blizzard fixed the underlying issue with gear for 15 or even 10 ilvl gear gaps are always upgrades? Has anyone had any scenario where if they equip something 10 ilvls or higher their dps has went down?

I have an 870 pair of pants with socket that have about 600 crit plus i socket it crit. It's a dps loss to my 880 pants with haste and vers. but I do have the bracers so haste is weighted higher than most without them.