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Cheers fellow Mages,

since the patch will be hitting live servers pretty soon, I tried to do my homework and did some SimCrafting.
What I perceived (and what basically every related post states) is that our basic priority for ST should be Int>Versa>Crit~=Haste>Mastery.
On the other hand, simming 2+ targets puts mastery on the very top though.

Talking gear-wise: Would it be worth to go for mastery like a braniac for the sake of 5-15k DPS on bosses or should we just build our gear to be "okay for both ST and MT"?

I am specifically talking about higher dungeons like +13-15. Tyrannical will be pretty interesting on this one.

Hope you got some thoughts on this as well.

If youre doing 13-15 you are playing the game a lot and should have access to dungeon and cache drops that will allow you to switch gearsted between ST bosses and aoe. At least that is what I do.

What settings are you using? Whenever I try to sim for dungeons, only Pyroblast is used, which is not representative of most mythic+ dungeons. I don't know what stats Flamestrike/Pyroblast benefit from specifically.

I am interested in this as well. I tried doing a seperate build for mythic plus and i ran a few today. I was messing around with different talents inbetween every run and my stats were 50-51% crit, 9-10%haste, 18-20% mastery and 2-3% versa. I was trying everything, different gear, different talents, different rotations, different legendaries but I always ended up only doing around 350k dps total for the entire dungeon. I don't get it, at 880 i should be doing a lot more i feel.

I am interested in this as well. I tried doing a seperate build for mythic plus and i ran a few today. I was messing around with different talents inbetween every run and my stats were 50-51% crit, 9-10%haste, 18-20% mastery and 2-3% versa. I was trying everything, different gear, different talents, different rotations, different legendaries but I always ended up only doing around 350k dps total for the entire dungeon. I don't get it, at 880 i should be doing a lot more i feel.

Well, I've noticed that a few things have great impact on the DPS you can get on a dungeon, mainly: DG level, affixes and how your tank does his job.

Let me explain a little better:

1) DG Level - the higher the level, the longer takes the adds to die, so the DPS relevance of your bursts / mini bursts is worsen, since you spend most of the trash fight just casting stuff. If you can burst & kill a pac of 4 - 5 trash in 10 sec or less, your DPS will be much higher

2) Affixes - some affixes, such as Volcanic (now, without Icy Floes!) can really screw up your DPS, so when you check your DPS against other players, this is something to keep in mind

3) Tanking - some tanks just grab 2 - 3 trash mobs and wait for the group to kill them off, instead of aggroing a larger group. Other tanks like to aggro the entire room. The second case will net you a much higher DPS (such as the rat pack in Arcway), and this can make a huge difference. Just to give you an example, in the beginning of Neltharion's Lair, before you jump down to first boss, I've gotten as high as 1.2 MM DPS on that trash, and as little as 350k DPS. It pretty much all depended on how the tank aggroed the mobs.

To give you a numeric reference: I'm sitting at 886 ilvl, with shitty-ass legendaries that do nothing for my DPS, and I pull around 350k - 400k on single-target fights with my Mythic+ build (Conf - Shim - RoP - AF - Fren - LB - Cinder). My stats are something like: 54% crit, 9% haste, 14% mast and 5% vers.

I went nuts with simming when the patch hit and decided it was time to make a pure ST and pure MT set for Fire. I use the pure MT set for M+ and noticed much better DPS on trash. As the other poster mentioned, at this point, no reason to not have two sets of gear to be swapping between. To get you started MT set just stacks as much Mastery as possible.

After running hours of M+ dungeons, I basically came to the same conclusion. Two sets & you're still pretty fine.

Getting used to playing with CiS and managing the Combustion CD without Kindling again will take quite a few days I guess.

I went nuts with simming when the patch hit and decided it was time to make a pure ST and pure MT set for Fire. I use the pure MT set for M+ and noticed much better DPS on trash. As the other poster mentioned, at this point, no reason to not have two sets of gear to be swapping between. To get you started MT set just stacks as much Mastery as possible.

What spec are you running for mythic+? I was trying to decide between RoP and incatners flow as well as flame patch and living bomb.

I was using cinderstorm last night and I absolutely hate it. It's such a dumb ability. I need to learn angles with it for sure. was doing a NL+12 and killing the last scorpion I used it and pulled a pack up on the cliff...worse than than barrage for sure.

I was using cinderstorm last night and I absolutely hate it. It's such a dumb ability. I need to learn angles with it for sure. was doing a NL+12 and killing the last scorpion I used it and pulled a pack up on the cliff...worse than than barrage for sure.

This, indeed, takes some time to get used to. I actually used CiS "back then" before the huge Pyro nerf & still need some time to get used to it again.

Although you really have to pay attention on your positioning and learn the angle and distance, you might get comfortable with it very soon(ish). Especially when you see your DPS increase every single time you manage to play it better.

But, yes, it's somewhat classic. I also managed to pull a whole floor on BRH with the cute cinders today.

I went nuts with simming when the patch hit and decided it was time to make a pure ST and pure MT set for Fire. I use the pure MT set for M+ and noticed much better DPS on trash. As the other poster mentioned, at this point, no reason to not have two sets of gear to be swapping between. To get you started MT set just stacks as much Mastery as possible.

I have a similar question regarding using multiple armor sets in EN & TOV. Having a MT set for Dragons, Il'gynoth, Elerethe, Xavius & Helya, (Cenarius maybe) and a ST set for Nyth, Ursoc, Guarm & Odyn.

Simming for multiple targets... using the following in Simc for 4 stacked targets:
enemy=Fluffy_Pillow
enemy=enemy2
enemy=enemy3
enemy=enemy4

This inflates Mastery in my Pawn string as a higher value than Int, and like 7 points higher than any secondary stat. I created an MT armor set and stacked as much mastery as I could, and it pays off well in M+, especially at lower + levels where the tank is pulling larger packs.

Since none of the current raid fights are consistent 4 targets, does stacking so much mastery at the expense of ST preferred stats make sense? Prior to 7.1.5 loading up crit over ALL else held true for every fight, but now I assume there becomes a point where a heavy mastery set wins. I'm wondering if anyone has any better maths or insight to determine any fights where a mastery above all else set would make sense. Maybe Helya and Xavius?

Or perhaps it's better to split the difference... stack more Mastery than the pure ST set, but achieve some happy medium of Mastery that will help you get those juicy Ignites going on any add fights.

Anyone have good rationale for what to wear for each boss?

What spec are you running for mythic+? I was trying to decide between RoP and incatners flow as well as flame patch and living bomb.

Also pondering this question in regards to the EN add fights as well as Helya. Any clear fights where Incanter's Flow or ROP stand out over MI?

I have been enjoying RoP and flamepatch for mythics. It's up for most packs and I have been using meteor. Since it's not teeming and I think meteor is ok since you pulls are smaller in higher keys. I'm sure cinder is better but it's unbearable for me to use.

Since we got Skittish in Europe I really encourage people to use MI for Mythic 7+, it lines up with Combustion nicely, so you can blow all your cooldowns without giving having to worry about aggro. Of course RoP gives you way more damage, but what's the point if you gonna die to overaggro anyways?

About last tier talent I'm running CiS just because I love the talent, tanks I'm playing with pull whole floor anyways and I have to position myself properly anyways due to legendary Helmet so it's not huge deal

Since we got Skittish in Europe I really encourage people to use MI for Mythic 7+, it lines up with Combustion nicely, so you can blow all your cooldowns without giving having to worry about aggro. Of course RoP gives you way more damage, but what's the point if you gonna die to overaggro anyways?

About last tier talent I'm running CiS just because I love the talent, tanks I'm playing with pull whole floor anyways and I have to position myself properly anyways due to legendary Helmet so it's not huge deal

I am at around 892 ilevel at the moment and Mirror Images are blowing RoP out of the water in both raids and M+. As the duration is 40seconds, even in high mythics(10-15) they can easily last more than 1 pack of trash, except on fortified week. They are also great for things like Pelters as the images take 90% reduced damage or so and soak hits. My only fear is at higher mythics when you are pushing real hard they might end up aggroing some shit pack and ruin everyones day.

I have been wary about using cinderstorm for mythic+ so never really tried it out. Nevertheless i still found great success with kindling and rop. In my opinion kindling is theoretically lower dps in a long fight over a period of time but i think many people here overlook the usefulness of burst in dungeon setting. Having an extra combustion or not for a certain part of the dungeon is invaluable. For example from top of my head BRH undead archers/scouts segment where u have patrolling panthers. If u have combustion up for the big pack right at the start of the stairs and have kindling u will have extra combustion for the commander pack... for this reason im still valuing crit over mastery and wearing major crit / minor mastery as favourite gear pieces for mynlthic+

I have been wary about using cinderstorm for mythic+ so never really tried it out. Nevertheless i still found great success with kindling and rop. In my opinion kindling is theoretically lower dps in a long fight over a period of time but i think many people here overlook the usefulness of burst in dungeon setting. Having an extra combustion or not for a certain part of the dungeon is invaluable. For example from top of my head BRH undead archers/scouts segment where u have patrolling panthers. If u have combustion up for the big pack right at the start of the stairs and have kindling u will have extra combustion for the commander pack... for this reason im still valuing crit over mastery and wearing major crit / minor mastery as favourite gear pieces for mynlthic+

I would love for this to be the case because I hate CiS, but I think having that CiS which is used multiple times per pack is probably more dps output than maybe having an extra combustion when you need it. I think if combustion didn't take the mastery nerf you would have a better argument.

With kindling you aren't pulling extra packs through walls, so all that extra damage from CiS could end up wiping the group anyway...

I don't agree.. Yes id agree if we are talking about overall clear speed. What I'm talking about is having some specific mob die asap is better overall to reduce chance of wiping

if u want to use CIS you just need to do it from the mobs to the start of the dungeon (backwards) so you always hit a clear zone, also usually from the side is a good angle too.

What I perceived (and what basically every related post states) is that our basic priority for ST should be Int>Versa>Crit~=Haste>Mastery.

you talking about ST and put haste AFTER versa and crit? i think you should use simC more since string is more like:

int > haste > versa > crit > mastery

What I perceived (and what basically every related post states) is that our basic priority for ST should be Int>Versa>Crit~=Haste>Mastery.

you talking about ST and put haste AFTER versa and crit? i think you should use simC more since string is more like:

int > haste > versa > crit > mastery

Yes, I completely made this up and didn't ever heard of Simcraft.

Maybe keep in mind that haste gets a decent drop-off after reaching certain breakpoints. Also keep in mind that Koralon's sims extremely well with versa.