Better Off Rerolling For Better Legendaries?

[Delandel]

I've been playing a crapton since October. My legendaries were Belo'vir's Final Stand and Shard of the Exodar.

According to Killpoints, I should've been at 3 legendaries by now and halfway to my 4th. Link

Well, sure enough, I got my 3rd legendary today: Norgannon's Foresight.

I'm pretty upset to be honest. My dps is already the bottom end in my guild and I sometimes even get sat for progression. I was praying I'd get either the wrist, helm, or belt to help my DPS out.

What do I do? Do I reroll another Fire Mage and hope to get luckier?

[broedrost]

I've been playing a crapton since October. My legendaries were Belo'vir's Final Stand and Shard of the Exodar.

According to Killpoints, I should've been at 3 legendaries by now and halfway to my 4th. Link

Well, sure enough, I got my 3rd legendary today: Norgannon's Foresight.

I'm pretty upset to be honest. My dps is already the bottom end in my guild and I sometimes even get sat for progression. I was praying I'd get either the wrist, helm, or belt to help my DPS out.

What do I do? Do I reroll another Fire Mage and hope to get luckier?

I have chest, prydaz, sephuz and feet and I still parse 90+. I feel you man but it's really no excuse for performing poorly

[Eturnus]

I have chest, prydaz, sephuz and feet and I still parse 90+. I feel you man but it's really no excuse for performing poorly

I've got to agree. My luck has also been so bad I'd wager it's statistically improbable to have this happen. I got Sephuz, then Prydaz, into Belo'Virs, until finally Norgannon's. So I know all too well how crushing getting bad legendaries can feel. But as was said above me you should still at least compete somewhat. I still sit in the 2-4th place depending on the fight.

I do have to say though.....super awful job on blizzards part with the legendary system. I've never been more discouraged in this game. Getting crushed 4 times in a row by bad legendary RNG hurts A LOT.

[Eyliria]

Honestly, the more you can cleave/AoE as part of your job in the fight, the less you'll feel not having the ST legendaries (I have Darckli's, Norgannons, Sephuz and Pyrotex... I feel like I have 2 legendaries so far)

It's very noticeable how I'm unable to compete in pure ST as Fire, to the point I'm now levelling a frost weapon on the side.

Having said that, at this point, I'm more concerned about Running Out of Time before the expansion ends, and not having tried the ST legendaries because of how they change up the rotation.

I do like the idea of hardcasting a Pyroblast for big damage, and fitting that into the fight, and I sure would love to have an execute phase sub 35% (with Koralon's), just because it adds MORE to my rotation, instead of the usual fishing for HotStreak that it is.

But, at 160days into the xpak, and 4 legendary drops... I'm beginning to think the expansion will end before I have a chance to do anything other than playing this character... god forbid I try to actually play a different spec or an alt.

[Mage]

The system is terrible, that's for sure.
Having said that, it is a very big exaggeration to say you've been playing "a crapton". My Shadow priest alt has 400KP less than you and 3 days /played at 110. My mage which I did play a lot has 500% of your KPs.
This is a true crapton: https://rsuurd.github.io/killpoints/#eu ... ether/tegu" target="_blank

[Eyliria]

The system is terrible, that's for sure.
Having said that, it is a very big exaggeration to say you've been playing "a crapton". My Shadow priest alt has 400KP less than you and 3 days /played at 110. My mage which I did play a lot has 500% of your KPs.
This is a true crapton: https://rsuurd.github.io/killpoints/#eu ... ether/tegu" target="_blank

How accurate is that calculator, for your DK?
Are you at 6-7 ?

That calculator puts a huge amount of value on M+, of which you do have a metric crapton, however, I wonder if it translates to the amount of "invisible legendary proress" that the calculator says it does.

[Mage]

I am not Tegu from Serenity, I just linked him to show what a crapton really is.
For me, the calculator has been fairly accurate. What you need to understand is that luck still plays part in getting the legendary.
My mage has 5300 KP, received 5th legenday 3 weeks ago, which was overdue (bad luck). Two weeks later, it received 6th, which was way early, aka very lucky. What sucked was that I was 100% sure it wasn't going to drop that fast and did not switch spec to frost (have bis fire and bis arcane legendaries already...).

For priest, I was way overdue and every boss killed was just waiting for it to drop. And it sure enough it did. For DH it was quite normal, 50% progress towards next, it dropped.

So from my experience with 3 chars, the formula works. There will always be very lucky/unlucky outliers.

[Eyliria]

I am not Tegu from Serenity, I just linked him to show what a crapton really is.
For me, the calculator has been fairly accurate. What you need to understand is that luck still plays part in getting the legendary.
My mage has 5300 KP, received 5th legenday 3 weeks ago, which was overdue (bad luck). Two weeks later, it received 6th, which was way early, aka very lucky. What sucked was that I was 100% sure it wasn't going to drop that fast and did not switch spec to frost (have bis fire and bis arcane legendaries already...).

For priest, I was way overdue and every boss killed was just waiting for it to drop. And it sure enough it did. For DH it was quite normal, 50% progress towards next, it dropped.

So from my experience with 3 chars, the formula works. There will always be very lucky/unlucky outliers.

What do you do for KP farming? Just Mid-level M+?
like 5-9 ?

I feel like I'm doing something terribly wrong then with my time playing the game.

I'm only at ~3250 KP, despite 40 days @ 110.
I've been doing mostly raids and averaging out ~6hours/day.

Maybe the effort just isn't focused.

[Imaskar]

So from my experience with 3 chars, the formula works. There will always be very lucky/unlucky outliers.

So you expect the drop at 100% or is it eulerian distribution at 50%?
edit: people average N leggies at 100%, so its 1st option (still eulerian).

@Eyliria

See this post and decide which way is faster for you:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/209 ... preadsheet" target="_blank

For me it seems that N/H fast clear>LFR>M+
Maybe if you have 4ppl boost party and fish for keys pretty quick, M+ pulls ahead.
I wonder if blizz decreased kp gained from EN, ToV.

[Makz]

For my main mage I was lucky and got Helm, Chest, Ring, Bracer in this order. Now Im getting up a DH and Fury, but once I get the 1st leg if its not the #1 bis I will drop the char. Unfortunately this is easy to do for an alt, but not for a main.

Also the formula for the leges does not account for time not played, which is a factor. end of december/early Jan I didnt play for about 2 weeks and was halfway between 3-4 and got the bracers the day I came back.

[Mage]

What do you do for KP farming? Just Mid-level M+?
like 5-9 ?

I feel like I'm doing something terribly wrong then with my time playing the game.

I'm only at ~3250 KP, despite 40 days @ 110.
I've been doing mostly raids and averaging out ~6hours/day.

Maybe the effort just isn't focused.

Most of them came from M+ because I was farming for 54 traits. But apparently non-repeatable content gives more points, so when I was getting closer to 5th one on mage I started doing all normal mythics, all LFRs/normal/HC raids every week. Was painful, but I (again) got lucky, and fire+arcane setups are now done.

[Eyliria]

What do you do for KP farming? Just Mid-level M+?
like 5-9 ?

I feel like I'm doing something terribly wrong then with my time playing the game.

I'm only at ~3250 KP, despite 40 days @ 110.
I've been doing mostly raids and averaging out ~6hours/day.

Maybe the effort just isn't focused.

Most of them came from M+ because I was farming for 54 traits. But apparently non-repeatable content gives more points, so when I was getting closer to 5th one on mage I started doing all normal mythics, all LFRs/normal/HC raids every week. Was painful, but I (again) got lucky, and fire+arcane setups are now done.

Thank you.
I'm just going to bite down and probably run H NH > N NH > H EN > N EN > H TOV > N TOV > LFRs and hopefully I can get the non-repeatable content out of the way before Friday and on the weekends I can M+ bash.

Looking at the spreadsheet, it seems that 7-10 is the best way to go as far as time investment goes, so, once the 15 is out of the way for weekly chest credit, I figure my efforts should be focused on CoS/Maw/DHT 7-10 for best results.

Fingers crossed for some PTR news this week, we're right on Lore's timeline for more information on the 7.2 tweaks.

[Imaskar]

1) The spreadsheet is a bit old. KP gained may have changed since m+ advanced to +15.
2) People on average do more 7-10 level keys, it may (I'm sure it will) affect statistics.

[Delandel]

I have chest, prydaz, sephuz and feet and I still parse 90+. I feel you man but it's really no excuse for performing poorly

I perform about as well as my simcraft would suggest I would. I was still asked to sit out for H Krosus, and instead managed to bring my DH alt which was slightly less geared and only had 1 equippable legendary at the time. Performed better. Was then asked to keep bring the DH to progression instead "just until we get the raid on farm status". Fast forward my Mage is 892 ilvl equipped and my DH is 893 (belt/wrist, no OP ring) because my mage is now denied a spot even though they know I'd prefer that character. Just a 1 ilvl difference and the DH sims +76k DPS on single target (517k vs. 593k) and same difference on the typical cleave fight. The only fights I'd expect my Mage to do better / even the gap is Skorpyron and Tich. When we're trying our best as a guild to push H Elisandre and hitting enrage timers yeah it matters.

Sorry about the rant. My question remains though, at what point is it better to reroll for a shot at better legendaries vs. sticking it out with a main? It depends on how fast you can regear your char vs. how fast the next legendaries will drop right? I think by the 4th or so you'd probably gear back to ~890 from scratch faster than you'll see your 5th and 6th drops.

[broedrost]

I have chest, prydaz, sephuz and feet and I still parse 90+. I feel you man but it's really no excuse for performing poorly

I perform about as well as my simcraft would suggest I would. I was still asked to sit out for H Krosus, and instead managed to bring my DH alt which was slightly less geared and only had 1 equippable legendary at the time. Performed better. Was then asked to keep bring the DH to progression instead "just until we get the raid on farm status". Fast forward my Mage is 892 ilvl equipped and my DH is 893 (belt/wrist, no OP ring) because my mage is now denied a spot even though they know I'd prefer that character. Just a 1 ilvl difference and the DH sims +76k DPS on single target (517k vs. 593k) and same difference on the typical cleave fight. The only fights I'd expect my Mage to do better / even the gap is Skorpyron and Tich. When we're trying our best as a guild to push H Elisandre and hitting enrage timers yeah it matters.

Sorry about the rant. My question remains though, at what point is it better to reroll for a shot at better legendaries vs. sticking it out with a main? It depends on how fast you can regear your char vs. how fast the next legendaries will drop right? I think by the 4th or so you'd probably gear back to ~890 from scratch faster than you'll see your 5th and 6th drops.

For a fight like Krosus there is no question about DH being superior to a fire mage. Single target sims are quite irrelevant as well because fire mage is not a single target spec. This does not mean you can't progress as mage, it doesn't make sense to me.

About the re-rolling part: on a new mage you have a fresh start and probably a larger chance to acquire good legendaries but you will spend alot of time gearing up and farming traits. All this time you could have spent on your main and probably get another legendary or two. That being said, if you already have 3-4 bad ones your chances are good to get a good one In the end it's up to you

[Eyliria]

I have chest, prydaz, sephuz and feet and I still parse 90+. I feel you man but it's really no excuse for performing poorly

I perform about as well as my simcraft would suggest I would. I was still asked to sit out for H Krosus, and instead managed to bring my DH alt which was slightly less geared and only had 1 equippable legendary at the time. Performed better. Was then asked to keep bring the DH to progression instead "just until we get the raid on farm status". Fast forward my Mage is 892 ilvl equipped and my DH is 893 (belt/wrist, no OP ring) because my mage is now denied a spot even though they know I'd prefer that character. Just a 1 ilvl difference and the DH sims +76k DPS on single target (517k vs. 593k) and same difference on the typical cleave fight. The only fights I'd expect my Mage to do better / even the gap is Skorpyron and Tich. When we're trying our best as a guild to push H Elisandre and hitting enrage timers yeah it matters.

Sorry about the rant. My question remains though, at what point is it better to reroll for a shot at better legendaries vs. sticking it out with a main? It depends on how fast you can regear your char vs. how fast the next legendaries will drop right? I think by the 4th or so you'd probably gear back to ~890 from scratch faster than you'll see your 5th and 6th drops.

For a fight like Krosus there is no question about DH being superior to a fire mage. Single target sims are quite irrelevant as well because fire mage is not a single target spec

I don't think that's fair to say, at all.
Fire mages don't have a claim to being the best at anything.

We are good cleave, but there are many classes with just as good, if not better cleave, and vastly superior ST.

The fact they can't balance us around properly isn't on our choice of spec, it's on Blizzard.

[Makz]

-snip-

Over the years Fire has always performed extremely high, so people never really paid attention to the other aspects of the spec:

- great on-demand burst, e.g. Guldan eyes you can easily be topping this meter
- slow-paced cleave, e.g. Ignite maintained between long-lasting bosses(any Council fight, Guldan dreadlords, etc.)
- extremely mobile - Scorched earth, Fire sprint, Shimmer/Blink, going for bonds, baiting out empowered liquid fire so your raid has a better time, etc.
- very flexible survivability - Cauterize baseline allows to cheese certain mechanics. i really hate they put a HP cap on it, because they just gave the old cauterize to DHs(netherwalk).

I am probably forgetting some stuff, but still. Yes, DPS is King, but we do bring other things to the table which can have an impact on the whole raid.

[Eyliria]

-snip-

Over the years Fire has always performed extremely high, so people never really paid attention to the other aspects of the spec:

- great on-demand burst, e.g. Guldan eyes you can easily be topping this meter
- slow-paced cleave, e.g. Ignite maintained between long-lasting bosses(any Council fight, Guldan dreadlords, etc.)
- extremely mobile - Scorched earth, Fire sprint, Shimmer/Blink, going for bonds, baiting out empowered liquid fire so your raid has a better time, etc.
- very flexible survivability - Cauterize baseline allows to cheese certain mechanics. i really hate they put a HP cap on it, because they just gave the old cauterize to DHs(netherwalk).

I am probably forgetting some stuff, but still. Yes, DPS is King, but we do bring other things to the table which can have an impact on the whole raid.

I was under the impression that these things weren't a DPS Tax, seeing as there are classes with better mobile damage, better mobility and better damage.

Fire is very well rounded and a fun spec to play.
However, I feel pretty limited in terms of performance until I get the correct legendaries.

Right now, my character feels incomplete, because if I plug her into SimC, I get 580k (@ 899 ilvl)
If I were to replace my sephuz with bracers, I instantly jump to 670k.

I don't want to get into a debate on whether these types of items should exist, so, in keeping with the thread, if I'd known from the get go that legendaries had diminishing returns on drops, and that the gap between having and not having a specific item was going to be this big, I would have, begrudgingly, rolled multiple mages to 110 and played them until I got the correct item to kick things off.

Now, 160+ days into the expansion, 54pts on my main weapon (35 on the other two), I don't find that reasonable anymore. I mean, I guess it wasn't reasonable to begin with, but I would've done it.

[Maerlim]

(...)

Fire is very well rounded and a fun spec to play.
However, I feel pretty limited in terms of performance until I get the correct legendaries.

Right now, my character feels incomplete, because if I plug her into SimC, I get 580k (@ 899 ilvl)
If I were to replace my sephuz with bracers, I instantly jump to 670k.

I don't want to get into a debate on whether these types of items should exist, so, in keeping with the thread, if I'd known from the get go that legendaries had diminishing returns on drops, and that the gap between having and not having a specific item was going to be this big, I would have, begrudgingly, rolled multiple mages to 110 and played them until I got the correct item to kick things off.

Now, 160+ days into the expansion, 54pts on my main weapon (35 on the other two), I don't find that reasonable anymore. I mean, I guess it wasn't reasonable to begin with, but I would've done it.

If i go back to the game this is what i'm gonna do: level 5 mages and play them until they get 2 legendaries, and make the best outcome my main.
The chance of getting 2 good legendaries (out of 3 desired good) on any of them is ok, 33% (3/10.2/9=6/90;that x5).
The chance of getting a single exact legendary (say the bracers) on any is high, 105% (1/10+1/9=19/90; that x5).
The chance of getting any good good legendary (out of 3 desired good) on any of them is ridiculous high, 316% (3/10+3/9=57/90, that x5).

What i'm trying to figure out is if i should really invest on Fire. It might be that Blizzard decided to make it permanently weak on st, we never know. How should i protect myself the best i can, covering other specs legendary-wise?

[broedrost]

Just wanted to let you guys know I got my fifth legendary now: hands xDDDDDDDD

this game. chest, sephuz, prydaz, feet and now hands