Kindling is back ?

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Pyromaniacs of Azeroth.
Chedeta
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:24 am

Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Chedeta Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:44 am

Hi, after seeing the new T21 Bonus for fire mage, i was wondering, what if the kindling mage is back ?

For those who didn't see :
2p T21 : Increase the duration of Combustion by X sec.
4p T21 : Combustion also increases your critical strike damage by X% for its duration.

I wondered what you were thinking about this new T21, and if it could make a good combination with http://www.wowhead.com/item=144355 and also the new relic on The Fallen Avatar http://www.wowhead.com/item=147079/torn ... =3561:1492 that increases the duration of combustion by 1sec.

And ofc as it increases also the critical strike damages we could also use http://www.wowhead.com/item=132406 with combustion too.

Still, we don't have the numbers for thoses bonuses but i think that might be a good tier.

Thanks for reading and sorry for my poor english :p
Syana
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:34 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Syana Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:54 pm

Honestly, I think it's stupid to have a tier be based entirely around combustion when entire point of the fire mage changes in 7.1.5 was to lessen the impact of combustion and move it's damage into other abilities.
7.2 already took steps to go against that and now it seems like 7.3 will take it ever further. Unless they have some plan to change combustion again, I feel like this is basically just un-nerfing combustion indirectly and bringing back what they saw as an issue previously.

I guess I just wish they would make up their mind...
CaliFireMage
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:34 pm

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby CaliFireMage Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:47 pm

Yah if unchanged, gloves+kindling in T21 for sure.

Lots of variables though:
How much of an ilvl improvement over T20 it is?
What the actual numbers are.

But not sure how many dont undergo radical changes from now until live.
Katsumi
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:21 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Katsumi Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:57 am

Honestly, I think it's stupid to have a tier be based entirely around combustion when entire point of the fire mage changes in 7.1.5 was to lessen the impact of combustion and move it's damage into other abilities.
7.2 already took steps to go against that and now it seems like 7.3 will take it ever further. Unless they have some plan to change combustion again, I feel like this is basically just un-nerfing combustion indirectly and bringing back what they saw as an issue previously.

I guess I just wish they would make up their mind...
This.
Nooksi
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:03 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Nooksi Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:23 am

Honestly, I think it's stupid to have a tier be based entirely around combustion when entire point of the fire mage changes in 7.1.5 was to lessen the impact of combustion and move it's damage into other abilities.
7.2 already took steps to go against that and now it seems like 7.3 will take it ever further. Unless they have some plan to change combustion again, I feel like this is basically just un-nerfing combustion indirectly and bringing back what they saw as an issue previously.

I guess I just wish they would make up their mind...
This.
The Big issue was, that if you mess up your Combustion Window of 10 secs every 90 secs, your Damage was shit. That was the playstyle they wanted to prevent.

With Gloves, Kindling and set Bonus, the playstyle would evolve around Combustion again, but because the shorter Cooldown and with 50% more combustion length, the rotation is much less punishing.

It is not a rollback but much more an evolution and, especially with Blizz, a standard balancing Process. "Overpower", nerf to the ground, patch back to viability. If the set bonus stays as it is, then we will se the fire mage to be played the way Blizz intended the spec initially, before releasing Legion. I presume i might add.

But I am way to giggly anyways. 2 Days ago I finally dropped the bracers. That is one hell of an improvement for my gamefeeels!
Spookytooth
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:52 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Spookytooth Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:50 am

Interesting you say less punishing.. I would argue the opposite.. with a longer combustion and more of them per fight.. you have to be super on point with timings and mechanics to make sure you fit in as many combustions with as many procs as possible into the fight window... previously it mattered less if you waited for a combustion because it generally wouldn't mean you missed one by the end of the fight anyway (unless unlucky or you waited stupidly long) and with the "on call" fireblasts you could always manufacture procs for the right moment... now your 'conserve' phase sounds like it will be even worse than 7.0.. barely to not using procs at all to wait the minute or so till combustion rocks back round when you finally do some damage again.. I hope this doesn't go live
Purplefrost
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:03 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Purplefrost Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:09 am

i mean with kindling you always only ever use one PF no matter what your set bonus or legendaries are. i'm super confused by the hate here. i feel like it's people that were bad back before the change and dont want to see combustion become strong again? they arent "revolving" the spec around combustion. it makes it so that when you have the set bonus, the bonus actually feels powerful and you can feel a difference when you complete the set instead of the weak bonuses we've had the first two raid tiers. personally i am extremely excited to see this set bonus come to light because it means fire will be even more viable on single target without BiS legendaries. now fire single target revolves around an absolute need for the bracers to even be competitive, and the belt to be top tier. i feel like this 4 set will make fire better overall for casuals that dont have the time to grind out all the BiS legendaries, and will allow for the hardcore players to be more competitive on single target fights. probably gonna get nerfed how Feral T20 did and it'll be terrible, but gotta stay optimistic. we still don't even know what the raid encounters are going to be like so the set bonus might be there to synergize with the boss fights.

at least we arent arcane this xpac.

Edit: the fire changes were aimed at not having to stack only crit as a secondary stat even over ilvl for intellect, not making your dps revolve less around combustion. They successfully made fire not need to stack crit by nerfing combustion mastery scaling bonus from your crit which made combustion weaker, crit weaker, and kindling obviously weaker since they buffed meteor damage. If you have a bad combustion your damage is still gonna suck. You can just do more damage outside of combustion now.
Syana
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:34 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Syana Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:40 am

Edit: the fire changes were aimed at not having to stack only crit as a secondary stat even over ilvl for intellect, not making your dps revolve less around combustion.
Actually, it was for both of those reasons.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/7848 ... e-715-ptr/" target="_blank
While Fire was mostly in a good place, we’re looking at two related issues in 7.1.5; the degree to which critical strike dominates other stats, and the overly high amount of damage concentrated into Combustion. Focusing on critical strike’s very strong contribution to the damage of Combustion, as well as that of Pyretic Incantation, addresses both of these. We'll be adjusting the damage of Fire’s core spells to leave its total damage similar to what it was before these changes. We're also giving Fire its own element-themed shield, as with Arcane.
CaliFireMage
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:34 pm

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby CaliFireMage Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:20 pm

I like the proposed T21 alot, far far better than T20 or T19.

~It gives fire a strong 3rd legendary item in the gloves, which I heard mentioned somewhere that in 7.3 there will be the culmination of the class hall quest to unlock 3 equippable legs. Frost already has: head+wrist+ring, fire would be: wrist+belt+gloves.
~returns the spec at the end of xpac to a place it was at towards the beginning.
~makes the new artifact trait/relic pre-ignited much better
~combustion both in the game mechanics and in terms of the graphical representation in game is the most iconic spell other than fireball for the spec
~will make kindling useful again and I love passives>activation talents
Pluckles
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:29 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Pluckles Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:36 am

~will make kindling useful again
Wat. It's being seen and used now, how is it not useful?
nucrus
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:02 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby nucrus Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:45 am

I heard mentioned somewhere that in 7.3 there will be the culmination of the class hall quest to unlock 3 equippable legs. Frost already has: head+wrist+ring, fire would be: wrist+belt+gloves.
This was merely a possibility and was in no way confirmed. It was in the same paragraph that they said they had also considered removing the legendary cap entirely towards the end of the expansion (but unlikely because of the power drop that would result when you hit 111 and they all stopped working)
CaliFireMage
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:34 pm

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby CaliFireMage Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:50 pm

~will make kindling useful again
Wat. It's being seen and used now, how is it not useful?
That was a poor word choice. this--->with these T21 changes, kindling will sim much higher than the traditional option of meteor, which seemingly is being taken now in all raid settings. Nice to have options.

They havent played their hand on this yet, but now multiple times blizz said they raise the leg cap by 1 once a bulk of the players had lots of options. They ruled out taking the cap out altogether but I suspect 7.3 will raise it to 3 equipped legendaries.
Spookytooth
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:52 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Spookytooth Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:26 am

3 legendaries would be a nice start. 12 of them have just sat in the bank doing nothing for months now. I'm not sure what blizzard's issue is with dropping power at end of xpac. As long as we are higher power by 120 no one cares about being weaker at 111 for 15 minutes. Having simmed an all legendaries toon, during nighthold with 940 cap, for some stupid fun I found it was weaker than using tier in those slots anyway, probably hasn't changed.
skeletonpoop
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:25 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby skeletonpoop Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:58 pm

The Big issue was, that if you mess up your Combustion Window of 10 secs every 90 secs, your Damage was shit. That was the playstyle they wanted to prevent.

With Gloves, Kindling and set Bonus, the playstyle would evolve around Combustion again, but because the shorter Cooldown and with 50% more combustion length, the rotation is much less punishing.
This is my thinking as well. Combustion is one of the more fun CDs to use in this game, and I'm all for our gameplay revolving around it when it when it has a decent duration and is up fairly often
Eyliria
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:17 pm

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Eyliria Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:08 pm

The newest PTR Build has numbers on our Fire set bonuses for T21.

2pc - Increases combustion duration by 2 seconds.
4pc - Increases critical strike damage by 50% for 14 seconds while Combustion is up.

I give it a lower than 0% chance of the 4pc making it to live with those numbers.
10% would be the absolute maximum I could see them letting go through.

I get it... it's the PTR, first iterations... yada yada, but... I expect a legendary shoulders type of change on that set piece within a build or two.

Kindling and Pyrotex gloves would shoot to top priorities, crit would rise as the main stat once more... and we'd manage to go a full 360 degress inside the same expansion. I just don't see how that lives through the PTR.
Clutchykins
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:52 pm

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Clutchykins Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:45 pm

The Big issue was, that if you mess up your Combustion Window of 10 secs every 90 secs, your Damage was shit.
This also applies to Arcane but they didn't completely re-design our kit for a tier or two. One of the learning curves of playing is using cooldowns appropriately and in windows that allow them to be the most efffective.
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archmagus
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:52 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby archmagus Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:41 am

So which secondary legendary would complement pyrotex kindling build, bracers or belt?
DeusInvictus7
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:44 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby DeusInvictus7 Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:12 am

So which secondary legendary would complement pyrotex kindling build, bracers or belt?
Bracers. The problem with the belt with a Kindling build is that Kindling doesn't benefit from Scorch, only Fireball and Pyroblast. If you spend 1/3 of a fight scorching, it doesn't really help with the CD of Combustion.
Toranaxx
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:55 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Toranaxx Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:58 pm

That's actually pretty incorrect. Many people are wrong. Even with the belt and kindling, you get a a nice cd reduction on combustion - the reason for that is, because you cast alot of pyroblasts. The cast time of scorch is less than half a second, guaranteed critical. You cast a pyroblast every 1 - 1.2 seconds. It's not a bad combination at all, considering that the 2 set tier bonus contributes aswell - giving a guaranteed pyroblast crit. Ofcourse, casting scorch instead of fireball does give you less cd reduction, but if you have in mind that scorch criticals make up for that, i think it's a good deal. Below 30% hp, if the fight is longer at execute phase, belt wrecks because of the steady 1.3-1.4m dps.
Syana
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:34 am

Re: Kindling is back ?

Unread postby Syana Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:42 pm

Even with all of that, there is no way we are giving up bracers unless changes to legendaries are made. And I doubt the belt will be stronger than gloves with the new set.

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