Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

[Illeriia]

Hey, I'm considering switching from Fire to Frost (yeah) since I got four non DPS-legendaries for fire, so it won't hurt that bad.
I juste have a quick question considering trinkets : I have Arcano 865, Whisper in the Dark 880 and Horn of Valor ( from Dungeon) 890, and I'm wondering which one to chose. Horn feels very strong with Icy veins lasting 30+ seconds, compared to Combustion being 10sec only ( even if it empowered MI for 75% of its duration). Also, with the Horn, wouldn't it be interesting to keep playing MI as a frost mage ?
Thanks in advance

Honestly with the spread in those trinkets, I would just suggest simming it. There's a fairly high chance that they'll be close.

[Illeriia]

I am having trouble with IV uptime, is there anyone that can give tips on what to use when WJ, FO?
Ive searched for videos but youtube is mostly filled with uninteresting PvP videos not related to my search.

I just water jet on pull, while my precast is mid air. Following that, I usually Icy veins > and depending on the range from the boss, I either ice lance once then cast frozen orb, or I just frozen orb into ice lances. Mostly depending on whether I can ice lance before the orb hits or not. Then sometime towards the end of the frozen orb I use Ebonbolt, using the flurry proc to mainly shatter frost bolt at this point. The reason behind using frozen orb so early is to get bone chilling up.
Here's the casting log on Star augur essentially showing that, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bM ... w=timeline" target="_blank
This is one of the fights where I can get a fairly high uptime on icy veins, depending on rng during the fel phase. In the future I'll probably run ice floes on this fight to take out that rng though.

[Pragmatica]

I am having some super weird issues with Water Jet and Frozen Orb on a couple bosses, especially Krosus, in NH. It is killing my ability to ST. I think I have also seen the Water Jet issue on Star Augur and Trillax as well. I have my Water Jet macro'd on my bar, and I hit it right through my middle of FB cast, like normal...but I am NOT getting charges.

As for orb, it just doesnt seem to be working at all during Krosus. I dont know if it is just falling off the bridge or what, but I can't keep my IV up for more than 30 sec. It is extremely frustrating.

[Garlic]

On trilliax during his annihilation phase, frozen orb goes right through him, wonder if anyone reported this yet.

[Magicgains]

On trilliax during his annihilation phase, frozen orb goes right through him, wonder if anyone reported this yet.

Cast frozen orb just as he lands in the middle. Then it works. If you cast it once he started casting, it will go straight through.

[Pragmatica]

I have seen the orb thing happen on Trillax as well, so I wait and stand back a couple yds before casting it. I have also seen my orb just disappear.

Tonight on Botanist, my orb went through the glass floor. What the hell is going on?! I ended up switching out of TV into CmS for tonight because I was so frustrated.

[Illeriia]

I haven't had any problems like that with frozen orb, but mine has had a history of stopping early before it actually hits anything, and spending most of the duration slowly floating towards the boss. Easiest solution would be to stand on the right or left side for botanist (thats what I do), provided you're nowhere near melee.

[azzastar]

just to confirm, after u cast a brain freeze proc, you are meant to immediately cast ice lance regardless if it is a FoF proc or not? Because when the flurry projectile hits the boss, it applies the shatter debuff right? But doesn't it last a very short time, what if you have low haste and/or are far away from the boss?

[Xinder]

just to confirm, after u cast a brain freeze proc, you are meant to immediately cast ice lance regardless if it is a FoF proc or not? Because when the flurry projectile hits the boss, it applies the shatter debuff right? But doesn't it last a very short time, what if you have low haste and/or are far away from the boss?

I don't know how low your haste is but realistically you should be able to Frostbolt > Flurry(with BF proc) > IL and shatter the Frostbolt and the IL in the window of the winter's chill debuff with almost any level of haste above probably 14% or so. This also includes being 15+yds away for shattering the Frostbolt specifically.

I've not done the numbers so I'm pulling that haste percentage out of the air, but if you've been gearing anywhere close to what you need for frost you should be fine. The only exception might be if you have the Gul'dan Trinket and you're on the negative proc side of it to where your cast speed is slower.

[Pouponu]

Up until last night, I was using the Glacial Spike build, allowing my haste to dip to 16%. Of course, last night I got the Legendary gloves, which is driving my decision to switch to the TV build. After some shuffling of armor I had saved in my bags and putting haste enchants back on my rings, my Haste is at 20% and have the two-piece tier bonus (need one more tier drop for the 4 piece bonus).

I have put in some time on a practice dummy and right now am struggling to keep IV up until I'm able to cast FO for a second time. I've managed to do it a couple of times, but my margin for hitting and missing my second FO is +/- 1-5 seconds, so even when I got my second FO out, I had literally 2-3 seconds left on IV and was unable to dig myself out of that rut to put a decent amount of time on IV. Is this a product of my haste being so low? I assume it is, but how much time do you guys usually have on IV when your second FO comes off cooldown?

Also, according to this guide (which has been extremely helpful) there seems to be room for variance concerning cooldown usage and opening rotation. I have been using EB > IL > Flurry w/BF > IL > FB x2 (inside WJ) > IL dump for my opener. Is there anything I can do to be more effective with it and what do you guys use to maximize FoF procs right out of the gate?

[Illeriia]

Up until last night, I was using the Glacial Spike build, allowing my haste to dip to 16%. Of course, last night I got the Legendary gloves, which is driving my decision to switch to the TV build. After some shuffling of armor I had saved in my bags and putting haste enchants back on my rings, my Haste is at 20% and have the two-piece tier bonus (need one more tier drop for the 4 piece bonus).

I have put in some time on a practice dummy and right now am struggling to keep IV up until I'm able to cast FO for a second time. I've managed to do it a couple of times, but my margin for hitting and missing my second FO is +/- 1-5 seconds, so even when I got my second FO out, I had literally 2-3 seconds left on IV and was unable to dig myself out of that rut to put a decent amount of time on IV. Is this a product of my haste being so low? I assume it is, but how much time do you guys usually have on IV when your second FO comes off cooldown?

Also, according to this guide (which has been extremely helpful) there seems to be room for variance concerning cooldown usage and opening rotation. I have been using EB > IL > Flurry w/BF > IL > FB x2 (inside WJ) > IL dump for my opener. Is there anything I can do to be more effective with it and what do you guys use to maximize FoF procs right out of the gate?

I have about 22% haste now (on the armory, not at home so I can't check the actual value) and in pure single target, without movement I can usually push very close to keeping IV up the entire time. What I was wondering is what talents are you using? I run BC/IF/UM/FT/TV, BC specifically so that you can continue to use water jet and get ice lance procs from it. You should specifically be trying to get a shattered ice lance from every BF proc, and usually 2 during Whispers. That being said, if you're crit is extremely low because you switched to mainly haste, that could also be the the problem. I still am forced to use crit enchants and gems(when I had sockets) because I'm so below shatter cap.
My Armory for referance: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... d/advanced" target="_blank
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Ya ... w=timeline" target="_blank
Thats the timeline of the opener I use on pretty much every fight except for Krosus(precast at around 4.5 seconds for him).
Basically, I prepot and precast at 2 > cast another FB whilst the first is in the air, and at the same time I have my pet use water jet at .5 seconds on the timer. This nets 2 - 3 FoF procs on pull everytime, following that if I have 3 procs, I use one, IV and ILx3, if not, I IV and ILx3.

[TurkeyOne]

I've been playing around with frost on mythic augur progression and I find that at around 9k haste I generally always made my second frozen orb etc (gloves are my only frost leg) if we're not counting weirdly horrible pulls that I can't explain very well other than to say my orbs didn't produce many procs or the times that I swear every single one of my FB -> BF -> IL cycles resulted in an FoF proc just as I went to shatter lance. Aside from that though inconsistent Whispers procs seemed to be the determining factor for me between making a relatively decent attempt and pushing ~80-85% IV uptime to suddenly having 95+ over the course of the attempt. Whispers can have the biggest impact or just not proc at all for 3 minutes its crazy.

[wizardsnz]

hi is there any full and compelete guide for rotation for frost around?
not just priorty list something that explain everything for rotation and why to do it thx

[Shitbird]

I'm a fire mage who is switching to frost for single target fights because fire is awful for that. Also apparently frost is doing best in mythic NH, and my guild will be starting that soon so I'm going to be putting all my AP in frost from here on out.


I've got 36 traits in my frost weapon, lust ring, and frost bracers, and it already sims higher for a single target fight than my fire spec at 42 traits and the fire bracers.

The key to doing great DPS seems to be keeping IV up for as long as possible, but my sim only has a 50% IV uptime, and I never get to a second frozen orb before my IV drops off when i practice on the dummy. Is this because I'm only at 17% haste? I'm going to be working on getting more haste gear from my raids if I can.

If I use frost orb and ebonbolt on CD, often they are still on CD when my IV comes back up. I know frost orb in particular is really useful in extending IV, so is it not better to hold frost orb for a while until IV comes back up? Or do you still use frost orb on CD and then just hold IV until frost orb is back up?

[Juno]

Sorry to jump in with more questions but are you all running BC ? Cause Lonely Winter is simming WAY better for me.

[Rabona]

For me BC was close to 20k dps ahead of LW last time I simed myself. I'd guess that the value of both talents greatly depends on whether or not Robomage can use the extra FoF proccs from WJ to make it to another FO without droping IV or not and thus the choice is very individual.

[jimmyo]

For me BC was close to 20k dps ahead of LW last time I simed myself. I'd guess that the value of both talents greatly depends on whether or not Robomage can use the extra FoF proccs from WJ to make it to another FO without droping IV or not and thus the choice is very individual.

I would also wager that Legendary Glove plays a significant factor. Water Jet's 2 FoF may get you the extra glove FoF. I do not have them, and LW sims within 500 dps of BC.

[Juno]

For me BC was close to 20k dps ahead of LW last time I simed myself. I'd guess that the value of both talents greatly depends on whether or not Robomage can use the extra FoF proccs from WJ to make it to another FO without droping IV or not and thus the choice is very individual.

I would also wager that Legendary Glove plays a significant factor. Water Jet's 2 FoF may get you the extra glove FoF. I do not have them, and LW sims within 500 dps of BC.

I run with leg gloves and tw ring, and LW still sim better then anything else on that row.
According to Logs (all top parses are running LW) and Frosted sim's LW should be the way to go . Maybe there is some kind of scaling factor depending on your gear that pushes LW ahead

[Oshtamage]

For me BC was close to 20k dps ahead of LW last time I simed myself. I'd guess that the value of both talents greatly depends on whether or not Robomage can use the extra FoF proccs from WJ to make it to another FO without droping IV or not and thus the choice is very individual.

I would also wager that Legendary Glove plays a significant factor. Water Jet's 2 FoF may get you the extra glove FoF. I do not have them, and LW sims within 500 dps of BC.

I run with leg gloves and tw ring, and LW still sim better then anything else on that row.
According to Logs (all top parses are running LW) and Frosted sim's LW should be the way to go . Maybe there is some kind of scaling factor depending on your gear that pushes LW ahead

That is correct. The change is dependent on the damage of your ice lances/brain freezes vs the benefit of increasing thermal void by 4 seconds every time water jet is up. With 4 piece, leg gloves, high ilvl (895+) and decent crit/haste/vers ratings, your ice lance proc rates combined with the increased damage to IL/BF outscales your pet.

It's important to note that in real time the difference is often negligible, as the pet sometimes allows absurd TV uptime, but if you get the perfect pull while using LW, it definitely smashes most fights in NH.

[Juno]

That is correct. The change is dependent on the damage of your ice lances/brain freezes vs the benefit of increasing thermal void by 4 seconds every time water jet is up. With 4 piece, leg gloves, high ilvl (895+) and decent crit/haste/vers ratings, your ice lance proc rates combined with the increased damage to IL/BF outscales your pet.

It's important to note that in real time the difference is often negligible, as the pet sometimes allows absurd TV uptime, but if you get the perfect pull while using LW, it definitely smashes most fights in NH.

Agree with everything but what sealed the deal (at least for me) it's that with BC you make things harder especially on fight with huge hitboxes.
Don't really like the pet and how you have to play around with him, especially if and when you're required to move him around to get him a proper positioning.
LW it's just more user friendly, the 5-6 k difference on the sims it's just a plus for me. but that's just my opinion.