[7.2] Frost Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

[Senrusho]

Maybe I don't understand the way these sims work but the numbers here are like 100k higher than the numbers in the fire sim post. I dont do anywhere near 340k when I go frost. I'm either doing something very wrong or I dont understand these sim results.

[Norrinir]

Maybe I don't understand the way these sims work but the numbers here are like 100k higher than the numbers in the fire sim post. I dont do anywhere near 340k when I go frost. I'm either doing something very wrong or I dont understand these sim results.

The results have been updated to use heroic raid profile (so average ilvl around 865). The fire thread still uses preraid gear (840ish) at the time of this post.

[Ailia]

I realize sims show Frost doing fairly well (fire profile is showing 350k and Frost 348k) but it seems the community believes Frost to be bad - though some say you can play Frost as long as you aren't pushing content. Are we really as bad as people seem to think? I'm fairly new to the mage and haven't regularly played WoW since Cataclysm...so I've been hesitant to run anything as Frost.

Is it because Fire adapts to just about any situation really well? And Frost doesn't? Or is the seemingly majority of the community just ignorant?

Any insight will be greatly appreciated!

[nathyiel]

I realize sims show Frost doing fairly well (fire profile is showing 350k and Frost 348k) but it seems the community believes Frost to be bad - though some say you can play Frost as long as you aren't pushing content. Are we really as bad as people seem to think? I'm fairly new to the mage and haven't regularly played WoW since Cataclysm...so I've been hesitant to run anything as Frost.

Is it because Fire adapts to just about any situation really well? And Frost doesn't? Or is the seemingly majority of the community just ignorant?

Any insight will be greatly appreciated!

NO, it's just a common believe that Frost have to be bad. After the hotfix, it shouldn't be that far behind.
Most of the time, it's a matter of optimisation. Knowing the fight have more impact than any bad spec.

[kooriaisu]

are we using blizzard in our single target rotation now?

[Ailia]

are we using blizzard in our single target rotation now?

We talked about this in another thread and it appears that it depends on mastery levels and points invested in your artifact. As ilvl goes up and as you get more frostbolt upgrades it eventually surpasses Blizzard.

[Curnivore]

is the seemingly majority of the community just ignorant?

I don't see what you see. The majority of mages are gated behind AP and even worse in some cases, legendaries that are spec specific, and can't change easily. Factor in those gates and switching from Fire would need an OP spec and a nerfed fire, which doesn't seem to be the case. Also I see a mechanical disadvantage on Frost: it doesn't burst like the other two, and that is a utility lost. I think that to make it fair, a non-burst spec could be the highest sustained DPS because it doesn't have the burst advantage, or it would lose on aoe.

[Ailia]

I wasn't saying or even accusing the community of ignoranace...it was an honest question based upon simulation results. I'm new - I've said this - and it's very possible I'm not considering everything or even interpreting the simulation data correctly.

Sorry.

[nathyiel]

the simulation won't be very useful until we are at 34/34 artifact trait.

[Zulandia]

the simulation won't be very useful until we are at 34/34 artifact trait.

The H profiles use 26 purchased traits and the preraid ones use 19 so not sure why you're saying this.

[kooriaisu]

is there a way for me to sim if blizzard is worth using in my single target rotation? also where do you fit it in? do you just cast it on cool down or just when you have no FoF?

[nathyiel]

the simulation won't be very useful until we are at 34/34 artifact trait.

The H profiles use 26 purchased traits and the preraid ones use 19 so not sure why you're saying this.

Frost si very depend on Artifact trait choice. Those profil don't go for the Chilled to the Core as example.

Now that the PVE race is over, we should focus on 7.1 and we will have 34/34 or very near.

[Norrinir]

is there a way for me to sim if blizzard is worth using in my single target rotation? also where do you fit it in? do you just cast it on cool down or just when you have no FoF?

Sim once without action for Blizzard, sim once with

Code: Select all

actions+=/blizzard

just above Frostbolt/Ebonbolt (shouldn't matter that much) action. Then compare dps.

You want to cast it on CD, but it's filler spell like Frostbolt, so don't delay the rest of your rotation just to make sure you cast Blizzard on CD.

[MagusMaximus]

Forgive me if I missed this, but what Item Level is the Devilsaur trinket in these sims?

[nathyiel]

Quick question :
Did someone was able to test http://www.wowhead.com/item=132452/sephuzs-secret" target="_blank ?
It have been confirmed to proc on CC-immune boss and with root.

I ask because as a Frost mage 15% haste at 33% up-time is pretty lovable. And the stat are pretty good too. It will be very easy to proc with Freeze or maybe Counterspell.

[Shadoworx]

As the not-proud owner of that ring, I can tell you that the proc will only work if the application of a CC succeeds.

This means that on a boss, nothing will proc the ring. But any adds that are susceptible to CC can trigger the ring. Including:

Mythic Nythendra, MCed people
Nightmare Ichors on Il'gynoth
All adds except Shades of Taerar on Dragons of Nightmare
Wisps on Cenarius
Inconceivable Horrors on Xavius

can contribute to the ring. Ursoc and Elerethe have no valid CCable targets as far as I'm aware.

Glacial Spike, Frost Nova, Freeze, and Polymorph all trigger the ring.

[herpyderpidy]

I see you didn't look at the Sephuz's Secret DPS increase in your sims. Since it procs off Supernova even on bosses, wouldnt taking a look at it be worth it ? It is a good ring for frost statwise and they can pretty much keep a 100% uptime on it's buff, so I guess it won't be bad. no ?

[Norrinir]

I see you didn't look at the Sephuz's Secret DPS increase in your sims. Since it procs off Supernova even on bosses, wouldnt taking a look at it be worth it ? It is a good ring for frost statwise and they can pretty much keep a 100% uptime on it's buff, so I guess it won't be bad. no ?

Sims != actual game. The question was whether Sephuz's Secret still works this way in game. It has been changed multiple times in beta and as per Shadoworx, it would seem you actually have to land the CC to get the haste proc.

[Shadoworx]

Well since this is the Frost thread, I didn't include Supernova.

Yes, the CC must take effect to proc the ring. That's why the ring mentions "successfully applying" a loss of control effect. A 100% uptime is also impossible given that the buff lasts 10 seconds and has a 30 second cooldown.

The ring's stats are fine as a stat stick, but the method of acquisition and as such its rarity leave a sour taste when looking at the other options available.

[herpyderpidy]

Oh heck, I wrote supernova like a scrub when I meant Ice Nova. According to Wowhead, Ice Nova procs the ring and attempted loss of control on bosses seem to make it work. Maybe this changed, I'll have to try it. And by 100% uptime, I meant the 10 sec every 30 sec. With Ice Nova on a 25sec cooldown, you surely could wait another 5 before casting it to make sure you get your ring proc every 30sec, giving it a 100% uptime considering it's limitations.