Glacial Spike - Updated

[Fnoptik]

In term of raw stored Glacial Spike damage, is it worth to shatter last frostbolt in a row (while sitting on 4/5 icicle) if we dont planing to shatter GS with blink-flurry).
Asking because i dont really understand how this mechanic work.
Simple Icicle added to icicle bank at the moment of frostbolt launch. Stored damage calculated at the moment of impact?
So its possible to launch GS with only base damage if 5 frostbolts landed on target with some kind of damage immune?

Extra icicle proced from double icicle passive "Ice Nine" added to icicle bank on the moment of impact.
How many damage stored from that extra icicle?

[Bathazara]

Tried running 2nd HC clear with this build and yes it gave very positive results, even though my gear wasn't optimised for playing the spec. I was able to out preform most of my TV logs and the spec felt like having a lot more potential than regular build. Looking forward to play this spec with more optimised gear and fully upgraded artifact.

Here are my logs where u can see which bosses GS outperformed TV, though some fights i messed up or died.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/c ... 320/latest" target="_blank

Also, I'm having the same issue with simcraft giving me quite odd stat weights when running OP's APL for my character.

Pawn: v1: "Sambabwe": Intellect=13.74, CritRating=14.59, HasteRating=14.25, MasteryRating=12.69, Versatility=13.52

What i don't understand by looking at your logs is that GS is barely ever your top dps. On all bosses your top dps comes from TV........ Please explain that.

[Venno]

Tried running 2nd HC clear with this build and yes it gave very positive results, even though my gear wasn't optimised for playing the spec. I was able to out preform most of my TV logs and the spec felt like having a lot more potential than regular build. Looking forward to play this spec with more optimised gear and fully upgraded artifact.

Here are my logs where u can see which bosses GS outperformed TV, though some fights i messed up or died.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/c ... 320/latest" target="_blank

Also, I'm having the same issue with simcraft giving me quite odd stat weights when running OP's APL for my character.

Pawn: v1: "Sambabwe": Intellect=13.74, CritRating=14.59, HasteRating=14.25, MasteryRating=12.69, Versatility=13.52

What i don't understand by looking at your logs is that GS is barely ever your top dps. On all bosses your top dps comes from TV........ Please explain that.

If you look at when he played GS, he did in fact outperform his best TV parses at the time. Obviously since then, as his gear has improved, TV has taken over.

[Kronnoxus]

With GS build do i switch to Arctic Gale and use blizzard on ST with 5 stacks if i only have Zann'esu?

[Makkish]

What does 7.2 mean to the Frost mages ? Is GS getting better ? Is TV pulling further ahead or what is going to happen with the new traits ? Obv the IL bracers are getting stronger because of new IL Trait but other than that, what have i i missed ?

Btw. looking forward to a decent bump in dps, as my frost weap only is 43 and with new system i get alot of base dmg buffs

[Arandomperson]

I think tv is just gonna pull ahead more and more

[Mage]

GS has been dead for many weeks already.

[t3hbar0n]

GS has been dead for many weeks already.

You can still get orange parses playing GS, i'm not sure how that counts as being "dead". It is behind TV though for sure, particularly if you have good TV gear and gloves.

[Eyliria]

GS has been dead for many weeks already.

You can still get orange parses playing GS, i'm not sure how that counts as being "dead". It is behind TV though for sure, particularly if you have good TV gear and gloves.

What counts as good tv gear?

Not having gloves is what I consider to be my biggest impediment on trying out TV at the moment.

[Xaximbo]

i have the legendary gloves and when we are running normal/hc farm i use TV to test, i have high mastery/versa gear (55% mastery/11% versatility) and some light haste 15-20% don't remember exactly, 32% crit which is a must on both builds.

I barely pull the same dps on ST/Cleave which is around 600-700k, the difference is that with GS feels a lot easier, with TV it creates me a lot of anxiety to see my Icy Veins expiring normally i can't make it last longer than 90s or so i don't know if this is normal or not. I would like to have crit/haste/versa gear without mastery to check properly.

What i find more strange is that top TV builds are using lonely winter (which means 2 less charges of FoF due to no elemental), and splitting ice a lot of time which means 40% less ice lances (i don't know if double hit ice lances mean double IV extension, then is probably worth taking SI on nearly all boss fights)

As for the future i am not particularly worried because Ice Lance buffs are still a buff for GS, due to its nature scales harder than TV and the double dip becomes more noticeable, the bracers will be an absolute BiS for both specs, normally my damage sources are Glacial Spike, Ice Lance then Flurry. 7.1.5 GS doesn't ignore FoF procs, my ice lances hit for a million on 3 chain reaction stacks, if they can cleave its like 1,8M damage for an instant spell its crazy.

No doubt TV gets bigger benefit and that is why i am considering switching gear in preparation for ToS

[t3hbar0n]

What i find more strange is that top TV builds are using lonely winter (which means 2 less charges of FoF due to no elemental), and splitting ice a lot of time which means 40% less ice lances (i don't know if double hit ice lances mean double IV extension, then is probably worth taking SI on nearly all boss fights)

It is not 40% less lances... frozen touch increases your chance of proccing a FoF by 40%... so if your base chance to proc a FoF was 10%, then with frozen touch it would be a 14% chance to proc FoF.

[House]

Gloves are definitely not a requirement for TV and playing lonely winter takes the stress of IV uptime (although you still want to maximise it, its not the end of the world if it drops).

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/c ... artition=1" target="_blank

Those are my logs, no gloves for me (recent name change hence limited logs, that was just our latest heroic clear with a bunch of alts).

Glacial isn't bad (still better than fire). TV is just better and pulling further ahead with the latest traits. Infact the new ice lance trait might be the final nail for GS.

and yes double IL if done successfully gives 2 ticks to icy veins uptime.

[t3hbar0n]

Ya, with the first 4 points into the new traits, TV gained a ton of damage while GS gained pretty much nothing

[Eyliria]

Ya, with the first 4 points into the new traits, TV gained a ton of damage while GS gained pretty much nothing

I'm not sure what everyone went for, but I ended up going for the 4/4 stuff

+IL crit dmg, +%BF proc, icy veins CD reduction on FB crits and Flurry dmg.

Now I'm ready to start putting points into IL +%dmg from the new traits and work my way down to Glacial Eruption.

[Xaximbo]

What i find more strange is that top TV builds are using lonely winter (which means 2 less charges of FoF due to no elemental), and splitting ice a lot of time which means 40% less ice lances (i don't know if double hit ice lances mean double IV extension, then is probably worth taking SI on nearly all boss fights)

It is not 40% less lances... frozen touch increases your chance of proccing a FoF by 40%... so if your base chance to proc a FoF was 10%, then with frozen touch it would be a 14% chance to proc FoF.

wow incredibly weak then...

i think i will invest in ice lances and try TV today since we are going on HC farm.

[zulgohlan]

Hey guys

I had no time to play in 7.2 nor doing some sims, GS still viable? My legs atm syphuz prydaz belovir norgannon icetime, 54 traits ilvl891

mfg zul

( if someone is "really" boring atm and running sims just take my char and compare GS and TV, and i can go through on my long way home from work no chance getting simc running on my s3 )

[Cames]

Ya, with the first 4 points into the new traits, TV gained a ton of damage while GS gained pretty much nothing

I guess I am confused by this comment. I have been playing TV, but because of the patch I have been thinking about GS again. The Ice Lance Damage increase will be stored in the Spike as well. The problem that I have had is actually the T19 bonuses being anti-GS. The point of those bonuses is that over time you will cast fewer Frostbolts. Brain Freeze Procs = more Flurries. More FoF procs = more Ice Lances. That has told me that this expansion wants us to use more and more GCDs as non-Frostbolts. Without those Frostbolts, I won't get to GS as often. It also makes me want to go to higher and higher haste levels for GS (to get more FBs).

What am I missing?

[Crayon]

Ya, with the first 4 points into the new traits, TV gained a ton of damage while GS gained pretty much nothing

I guess I am confused by this comment. I have been playing TV, but because of the patch I have been thinking about GS again. The Ice Lance Damage increase will be stored in the Spike as well. The problem that I have had is actually the T19 bonuses being anti-GS. The point of those bonuses is that over time you will cast fewer Frostbolts. Brain Freeze Procs = more Flurries. More FoF procs = more Ice Lances. That has told me that this expansion wants us to use more and more GCDs as non-Frostbolts. Without those Frostbolts, I won't get to GS as often. It also makes me want to go to higher and higher haste levels for GS (to get more FBs).

What am I missing?

Ice Lance dmg does not get stored in glacial spike, frostbolt damage does, brain freeze procs give you more flurries to shatter frostbolt with (more glacial damage) so it's not anti glacial spike

[Cames]

But unless you cast Frostbolts you will not have icicles to store up to be a Glacial Spike. The 2 Piece causes more Flurries to be cast immediately followed by an Ice Lance or Glacial Spike. So, instead of FB - FB - FB you get FB - Flurry - Ice Lance. The 4 Piece creates more FoF Ice Lances which again take GCDs from FB.

So, with the T 19, 4 piece you will cast fewer Frostbolts than with the 2 piece or with no set bonus at all. That means that you will cast fewer Glacial Spikes. On the other hand, these additional procs of Brain Freeze and FoF add directly to the Icy Veins uptime of TV. So to me the Tier 19 set bonuses reduce the value of Glacial Spike relative to Thermal Void.

Obsidian Lance seems to be neutral on the subject, which is why I asked the question. It impacts Ice Lance which has nothing to do with Glacial Spike or Thermal Void Directly.

[t3hbar0n]

TV builds gain more of their damage from lance than GS builds... the first 4 traits really benefit lance, and because TV casts more lances, and gains the majority of it's damage from lance, it gains more from the new traits than GS does. GS build gain damage as well, but TV gains more, and because TV was already ahead, now it is glaringly ahead. For me I went from simming at around the same DPS for both TV and GS with ideal GS gear, to TV being 50k dps ahead of GS... while using GS gear lol.