Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

[glasscannon]

Well, it doesn't matter anymore, lol.

Dat hotfix buff.

I'm pretty sure the author of this guide is also the one who is responsible for getting that hotfixed for us

So we should always be frostbolting>BF> IL? It just seems like you are losing time during IV if you do that. I can see outside of IV.

In the long run, getting chain reactions are worth doing that. If you are getting close to IV ending, I could see cutting out the frostbolts, but keep in mind that (especially with the new 2pc) frostbolts are key to gaining more BF procs (which lead to IV extension)

[Zotix]

In the long run, getting chain reactions are worth doing that. If you are getting close to IV ending, I could see cutting out the frostbolts, but keep in mind that (especially with the new 2pc) frostbolts are key to gaining more BF procs (which lead to IV extension)

But if I do that, I should always be at 20+ yards right? Before that it's a waste to FB?

Also, hypothetical situation...

You just finish casting FB, and you have brain freeze and one FoF. Is the correct thing to do, dump the 1 FoF, cast FB, BF, IL?

[Shadra]

But if I do that, I should always be at 20+ yards right? Before that it's a waste to FB?

I think there was mention in the hotfixes that the first projectile of Flurry will be faster, so that may solve the range issue with the FB>BF combo.

[charlie01]

Thingy, the author of this post indeed was the one that got this hit fix for us. All hail thingy!

[Xinder]

In the long run, getting chain reactions are worth doing that. If you are getting close to IV ending, I could see cutting out the frostbolts, but keep in mind that (especially with the new 2pc) frostbolts are key to gaining more BF procs (which lead to IV extension)

But if I do that, I should always be at 20+ yards right? Before that it's a waste to FB?

Also, hypothetical situation...

You just finish casting FB, and you have brain freeze and one FoF. Is the correct thing to do, dump the 1 FoF, cast FB, BF, IL?

In the blue post they say 15+yds away should be sufficient now to get the Winters chill debuff to apply for both the frostbolt and the IL assuming you did FB > Flurry > IL.

I've been dumping the FoF charge first and then FB > Flurry > IL. That should be the correct procedure. The FoF IL extends IV and then you get the "free" shatter IL from the Flurry proc. Otherwise you're munching the free shatter IL. There's no point in Flurry > FoF charge when the Flurry > IL would be the same effect and you lose out on that when you burn a FoF charge instead. Doing that is not taking advantage of the Winter's Chill debuff.

[Zotix]

Another hypothetical situation of what would you do?

So you cast FB w/ brain freeze, with the intent to fire off BF followed by IL. BUT, your previous FB that was flying procs a FoF, so you are mid-cast with the intent to BF>IL, but now you have the FoF proc. Do you munch the FoF proc? Or do you burn the BF procs first?

[Drozzy]

So you cast FB w/ brain freeze, with the intent to fire off BF followed by IL. BUT, your previous FB that was flying procs a FoF, so you are mid-cast with the intent to BF>IL, but now you have the FoF proc. Do you munch the FoF proc? Or do you burn the BF procs first?

Frostbolt generates procs when the cast finishes. For both BF and FoF. Frozen orb generates per tick. This situation will never occur.
However, I feel it is still debatable whether or not its worth trying to shatter frostbolts. Casting frostbolt->flurry->ice lance may not munch brain freeze anymore, but it has a 12% chance to munch a FoF. Frostbolt already has a 15% higher chance to crit than normal. At softcap, that's a 48% chance to crit. Is the guaranteed crit on frostbolt (and the icicle) worth losing a 12% chance of another ice lance? I don't think so, at least not with low mastery. Frostbolt does very poor damage in thermal void builds. My guess is that it's probably about dps neutral. AKA: Don't cancel your frostbolt casts, but don't make a strong effort to shatter them either.

[kzn]

Frostbolt generates procs when the cast finishes. For both BF and FoF. Frozen orb generates per tick. This situation will never occur.

The situation as described doesn't involve a frozen orb, and definitely happens all the time.

[glasscannon]

Thingy, the author of this post indeed was the one that got this hit fix for us. All hail thingy!

Hear, hear!

[Norrinir]

So you cast FB w/ brain freeze, with the intent to fire off BF followed by IL. BUT, your previous FB that was flying procs a FoF, so you are mid-cast with the intent to BF>IL, but now you have the FoF proc. Do you munch the FoF proc? Or do you burn the BF procs first?

Frostbolt generates procs when the cast finishes. For both BF and FoF. Frozen orb generates per tick. This situation will never occur.
However, I feel it is still debatable whether or not its worth trying to shatter frostbolts. Casting frostbolt->flurry->ice lance may not munch brain freeze anymore, but it has a 12% chance to munch a FoF. Frostbolt already has a 15% higher chance to crit than normal. At softcap, that's a 48% chance to crit. Is the guaranteed crit on frostbolt (and the icicle) worth losing a 12% chance of another ice lance? I don't think so, at least not with low mastery. Frostbolt does very poor damage in thermal void builds. My guess is that it's probably about dps neutral. AKA: Don't cancel your frostbolt casts, but don't make a strong effort to shatter them either.

Actually, you should shatter them if you can. The gain from guaranteed crit (Frozen Veins, Chain Reaction, extra bit of damage) far outweights the loss from munched FoFs.

[Seprest]

Check your dps per action time, and see if a 12% hit to frostbolt damage outweighs your ~50% increase in frostbolt damage for that period. Even with my 3 ice lance relics, it was *~50kdps higher.

Have situations on Krosus where maybe we will cast without frostbolt weaving when on last platform though., or stacked near boss for certain fights.

[Lammer]

So you cast FB w/ brain freeze, with the intent to fire off BF followed by IL. BUT, your previous FB that was flying procs a FoF, so you are mid-cast with the intent to BF>IL, but now you have the FoF proc. Do you munch the FoF proc? Or do you burn the BF procs first?

Frostbolt generates procs when the cast finishes. For both BF and FoF. Frozen orb generates per tick. This situation will never occur.
However, I feel it is still debatable whether or not its worth trying to shatter frostbolts. Casting frostbolt->flurry->ice lance may not munch brain freeze anymore, but it has a 12% chance to munch a FoF. Frostbolt already has a 15% higher chance to crit than normal. At softcap, that's a 48% chance to crit. Is the guaranteed crit on frostbolt (and the icicle) worth losing a 12% chance of another ice lance? I don't think so, at least not with low mastery. Frostbolt does very poor damage in thermal void builds. My guess is that it's probably about dps neutral. AKA: Don't cancel your frostbolt casts, but don't make a strong effort to shatter them either.

Actually, you should shatter them if you can. The gain from guaranteed crit (Frozen Veins, Chain Reaction, extra bit of damage) far outweights the loss from munched FoFs.

I took your log from Kroceusus after recent fixes, on the replay it seems that you prefer to use FB+IL instead of FB+flurry, when both procs on. Is this visual misrepresentation of WCL?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jJ ... iew=replay" target="_blank

0:17
0:39
2:21
3:05
3:21
3:25 (Ebonbolt+IL oO)
3:34

[Norrinir]

I patched my SimC with the hotfixes before it got into the current nightly version, so I had the opportunity to run some tests and dumping all FoF before Flurry was a gain for me (even if you were already casting Frostbolt). It was also a gain not to do the full combo (Frostbolt -> Flurry -> IL) when FoF from gloves was coming up (in that case, I did short combo Flurry -> IL).

Ebonbolt + IL looks like a mistake on my part, still getting used to the new rotation.

[Jics]

ebon -> IL will occur when you queued ebon right after a frostbolt, and that frostbolt procced a FoF.

I'm not too sure if it's better to cancel cast and fire off the FoF then ebon flurry for an ebon shatter or ebon -> IL -> FB -> BF -> IL.

my hunch is in the latter.

also, weaving frostbolt while orb is out is a little problematic.

if you already have a BF proc and FO is out, while trying to FB BF combo, you may generate FoFs along the way.

proc munching will always happen, but I'm just wondering which will be better to munch

[Norrinir]

You should try to shatter the Ebonbolt with the instant Flurry it gives you regardless, the damage gain is really good. The only place where this is awkward is the opener with gloves, precast Ebonbolt, activate IV and now you have FoF and BF. Casting Flurry right away is pretty much on par with IL -> Flurry -> IL, so I opted for the second one since it feels better.

[pleblius]

I think munching BF is much worse than munching the occasional FoF.

So I basically stick to Frostbolt > Flurry > Ice Lance in almost every situation. I also think Shattering Ebonbolt is more useful than saving a FoF proc. Try to avoid munching both, if possible. But I'd rather throw away an Ice Lance than risk missing a Flurry.

[Ellerianfan]

So much back and forth here and Im a little confused. We should be pairing frostbolt with brain freeze whenever we can after dumping ice lance procs but paring the brain freeze you get from ebonbolt with ebonbolt again after dumping ice lance procs right?

[pleblius]

Basically: Try to dump all your Fingers of Frost before you use Brain Freeze. When you use Brain Freeze, always cast it immediately after a Frostbolt/Ebonbolt. If you happen to generate another Fingers of Frost while casting Frostbolt/Ebonbolt while you have Brain Freeze up, you still want to use the Brain Freeze.

[kuroyume]

Question: I have the legendary bracers, and I've noticed that uptime on that buff has become as big or even bigger a predictor of my DPS than Icy Veins uptime. Is it worth it casting ice lance without FoF to keep the stack up if it's about to fall off? how about after it has fallen off, is it worth it casting regular Ice Lances to build it back up?

[Norrinir]

Not worth in both cases.