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Crit to shatter cap (33.34%) > Vers ~= Haste ~= Int > Mastery

I'd argue with that. Mastery weight will be reduced by ur scalling things so:

~7% Versa ratio (less versa you have, less mastery will loose value)
~3.3% Chilled to the core - (not sure here?)
~10% Frigidity of the Tirisgarde
and 20% * sum of rest 20% = 4% Ebonchill proc rate (no idea here lets say 20%)

so will be 24% weaker.

Instead we get better int scalling on GS (50% more dmg means 1500% spell power multiplier, means intellect is half more effective).

Let's take sim from here:
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T20M.html" target="_blank

GS did 29% of damage, and intellect will be half more effective on this spell, means he will gain aprox 14.5% more Int value.

So basically Id say it will give us 24% less Mastery value and 14.5% more int value. Since we get way more Int with Ilvl than secondary stats it could be even buff with higher Ilvls.

Also correct my if i'm wrong or forgot about anything

You have maybe the Simcrafts with Glacial Spike again? when i Look now its TV Sim´s

You have maybe the Simcrafts with Glacial Spike again? when i Look now its TV Sim´s

Yeah well I only ment to take % of GS dmg out of total damage without putting number out of the hat, but I do agree link is outdated. But if you sim urself for ST Patchwerk GS should be around 30-35% of your damage so 29% taken by me is some worst case scenario.

This is to prevent Glacial Spike from "double-dipping" %-damage buffs. That is, since the Icicles have already been buffed by things like Versatility or Incanter's Flow, that portion of Glacial Spike's damage should not benefit again. This matches the behavior of regular Icicles, which do not benefit from those types of buffs.

Wich should mean ,the Icicles benefit from Vers, Mastery, IF, IV.....but not external buffs like the Buff at Maidens.
Thats atleast what i understand from it.

Not really, what they mean is all buffs affect Frostbolt damage and Icicle is made out of frostolt damage, so Icicles are already affected by buffs without being affected by them directly, if you know what I mean

So yeah, Icicles are suppose to be mastery% of buffed frostbolt. Let's say you had 100% versa and 60% mastery. In this case you would hit:

200% of FB (normal + 100% versa multiplier)

and Icicle for:

200% FB (taken from above calculation) *60% mastery * (100% base dmg + 100% versa multiplier) = 240% of FB damage.

Total 200% of FB as FB and 240% of FB as Icicle => 440% of normal FB


when now you simply get
200% FB + (200% FB * 60%) mastery Icicle => Total 200% of FB as FB and 120% of FB as Icicle.

Still stronger than 60% of normal FB (FB * versa * mastery) but worse than sick: FB * versa * mastery * versa (cos of double dipping).

Double dipping is strong tool and we could see it comming

So I don't know if theres been 100% clarity on this.

If you have your 2 pc t20. How should your opening rotation look like? I am having some trouble figuring it out.

Do you pre pot, frost bolt until your first brain freeze and then, icy veins, frozen orb, ebon folt, flurry, ice lance, glacial spike, flurry?

If so, then do you go into your normal rotation, and cast glacial spike on 5 stacks of ice cicles regardless if you have flurry or not, or do you always hold it for a flurry?

gs performs still slightly better than tv with my gear

Weights: haste=vers mastery raped again

rotation is a bit on the fly now as a rule of thumb:

-Drop as much IL when frozen orb is up, guaranteed crits.
-Flurry frostbolt only if icicles are <3 , if you have 3+ icicles save the flurry to shatter glacial spike.
-If ebonbolt is up you can shatter al frostbolts, and when you are at 5 icicles cast ebonbolt then shatter glacial spike.

At least this is what im doing.

Any sims now with this new change? mastery rip again in frost tree?
Howl trinket rip for us now?

gs performs still slightly better than tv with my gear

Weights: haste=vers mastery raped again

Personally I had a 30k swing in my GS spike damange. Before this lovely change it was simming 10k over TV, now even with optimized gear to get to shatter cap and drop mastery since it's less relevant it sims 20k less than TV.

Is there still a specific APL for GS or I miss something...?
I haven't found it on the 1st page but I think I was using a specific one few months ago...

please can someone tell me what GS stats now and why ?

Is there still a specific APL for GS or I miss something...?
I haven't found it on the 1st page but I think I was using a specific one few months ago...

Last I knew it was built into the simc APL now. Back when it was still a new thing and not widely used you had to use the APL manually. This shouldn't be the case now.

please can someone tell me what GS stats now and why ?

Mastery doesn't have as much value now. Outside of that, sim yourself. If you don't know much about simcraft, use raidbots.com as that makes simming yourself easier.

what about trinkets? i don't know how to sim all of them just replacements. I think tarnished medallion might not be an absolute BiS since mastery has been weakened.

what about trinkets? i don't know how to sim all of them just replacements. I think tarnished medallion might now be an absolute BiS since mastery has been weakened.

pretty sure u got a typo there and that you ment "might not be an absolute BiS".
I asked myself the same question. Since it just provides mastery besides the nice effect...

what about trinkets? i don't know how to sim all of them just replacements. I think tarnished medallion might now be an absolute BiS since mastery has been weakened.

pretty sure u got a typo there and that you ment "might not be an absolute BiS".
I asked myself the same question. Since it just provides mastery besides the nice effect...

yup fixed for clarity.

So arcano+wisper now? Or some full of versa?

I mean that damage from owl is pretty insane so it might still be outstanding. What about terror or a really high Horn? God I hope that I don't have to farm helya for a titanforged 910+ bottle :/

I'm fairly certain the current google doc of 7.2.5 trinkets has been updated to reflect the change in GS to mastery and that Medallion is still really good. I could totally be wrong though and while mastery isn't as impactful it's still good and if you do get the medallion you could always swap out other mastery gear for better itemized pieces because of having so much mastery on the trinket.

Havent simd so far with an iwl, but i thinkits still far on top, the most potential comes from the useeffect in burstphases

Simmed with raidbots GS and mastery shows as 1st stat O.o. I have low mastery 42% 33,5% crit 25% haste and 4% versa.
My sim is Mastery>Versa>Int>haste>crit i was gearing for TV during NH.

Looking at guildies that have been stacking mastery their sim is the opposite haste main stat and mastery lowest. I think there are several breakpoints and most probably highest ilvl wins.

Simmed with raidbots GS and mastery shows as 1st stat O.o. I have low mastery 42% 33,5% crit 25% haste and 4% versa.
My sim is Mastery>Versa>Int>haste>crit i was gearing for TV during NH.

Looking at guildies that have been stacking mastery their sim is the opposite haste main stat and mastery lowest. I think there are several breakpoints and most probably highest ilvl wins.

I'm at work currently, but my mastery is somewhere around 45-46% and it's the lowest on my stats. So a bit more mastery while keeping your crit, versatility will probably move to the top as 4% is low for GS.

I had sims with Mastery as first stat as well, until I updated Simcraft to the lastest nightly build, then Mastery went back to the lowest stat of the five.