Frost vs. Arcane dps

[Anaxagora]

For a bit of background, my main raid group is 3/14 H right now and should by 5/14 by the end of next week. Here is my armory as well: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... a/advanced" target="_blank

There is another mage in our secondary group who has trying to convince my raid leader and I that I need to go arcane in order to get max damage out of my class. That seemed wrong to me, since I'm pulling 350k or so single target and upwards of 420k on multidot fights (even more on prots). But, looking at his logs and top ranked logs on WoL, it looks like he might be right. I'm planning on staying frost since I love playing it and I may get arcane OS, but is there really that much of a difference between the three specs?

[Chev]

Unless you are in the top 5% of players, DPS differences between specs is mainly going to be down to how you perform rather than how the spec performs. As such you will probably perform better in a spec you enjoy playing rather than one you are playing for the sake of it.

I am an Arcane mage myself but there are 2 other Frost mages in my raid group and we are constantly swapping around for who has the better DPS.

[durrtygoodz]

You have to ask yourself:

Can I play arcane as well as frost? - if you can't you probably wont beat your frost dps
Are we wiping to enrage? - If you're not then there's not a whole lot of reason to switch anyway

[durrtygoodz]

Also remember that arcane is just theoretically higher. If you can't play it in a progress raiding environment, you'll end up doing worse. I on 10m progress you can't get away with even half the scumbag things that 25m arcane mages can get away with on farm.

[Anaxagora]

I mean, that's another reason I'm staying frost for now. I'm top dps on pretty much every progression fight we do (though our destro lock will pull ahead on Galakras and sometimes Immerseus). I'm just trying to get the max dps I can to help our raid out. But you guys have basically confirmed what I already thought. The dps difference is minimal and I'd probably do worse since it's a spec I'm not used to

[Akraen]

Your guild leader needs to have the intellectual wherewithal to understand that your guildie who is suggesting arcane is exactly what's wrong with the community in WoW.

Focus on results. Looks to me like you're not the problem in that group.

[lynx]

Also remember that arcane is just theoretically higher. If you can't play it in a progress raiding environment, you'll end up doing worse. I on 10m progress you can't get away with even half the scumbag things that 25m arcane mages can get away with on farm.

This is very accurate.

But, half? More close to none
On 25m farm, as arcane I just say "guys, I don't do mechanics. I'm here just for dps. gg!". Only two mechanics I ever agreed to do in this specific setting was to kite thok (only because shortening the kite phase by invising messes with healer cooldowns) and kite the laser on blackfuse (only because invis puts it on random person without prior notification which has a good chance of wiping the raid).
Even on 10man farm I can't do most of those things I easily get away with on 25m.

[Spirillum]

Your guild leader needs to have the intellectual wherewithal to understand that your guildie who is suggesting arcane is exactly what's wrong with the community in WoW.

Focus on results. Looks to me like you're not the problem in that group.

Before we go throwing stones, I think how he suggested Arcane matters here.

Situation A: "If you're not Arcane you're holding your group back! You should sit him for playing a sub-optimal spec!"
Situation B: "I've reviewed your character and you might see better results from Arcane."
Situation C: "I just watched --mage here-- playing Arcane, and you're an idiot because you're doing something different and he's in --guild name--."
Situation D: "Noxxic told me he should be Arcan--" /slap

For many mages, Frost is the spec where they'll see the best damage. Is it viable for PVE? Definitely! The gains from playing one spec over another are incremental, and really come down to playstyle for most players.

If you're curious, why not queue up for a Flex or an LFR and play around with a different spec? There are plenty of solid guides to get you started (on this site even).

[Trustbucket]

Are we wiping to enrage? - If you're not then there's not a whole lot of reason to switch anyway

Thats a terrible and invalid point. DPS helps kills way more than just beating enrages. DPS reduces the amount of mechanics in a fight and pushes high damaging phases quicker like dark shamans enrage or Xaril on heroic. Thats a real basic and frustrating mindset that is way too commonly spread around the community.

[Trustbucket]

Also remember that arcane is just theoretically higher. If you can't play it in a progress raiding environment, you'll end up doing worse. I on 10m progress you can't get away with even half the scumbag things that 25m arcane mages can get away with on farm.

This is very accurate.

But, half? More close to none
On 25m farm, as arcane I just say "guys, I don't do mechanics. I'm here just for dps. gg!". Only two mechanics I ever agreed to do in this specific setting was to kite thok (only because shortening the kite phase by invising messes with healer cooldowns) and kite the laser on blackfuse (only because invis puts it on random person without prior notification which has a good chance of wiping the raid).
Even on 10man farm I can't do most of those things I easily get away with on 25m.

You don't even have to kite on Thok. The mechanic works so that the furthest, I think its 5 or 7, people have a chance at getting picked to kite. If you're arcane stand next to the boss when he re-fixates, its not a scumbag thing to do because it is a net increase in raid dps since arcane is quite useless when kiting because you have limited ice floes charges from positioning and blink charges are usually not sitting around (using blink is a waste of a dps GCD anyway but thats a different topic). Obviously arcane isn't the best for doing mechanics (probably the worst other than maybe SPriest) but it does a ton of damage, which is more beneficial for farm since ilvl and dps numbs the mechanics a ton putting more weight on killing bosses quicker and more efficiently.

[Mumrit]

I'm top dps on pretty much every progression fight we do

If you're pulling top DPS with a spec that you enjoy, no one really has the right to tell you to switch

[macca]

I'm top dps on pretty much every progression fight we do

If you're pulling top DPS with a spec that you enjoy, no one really has the right to tell you to switch

Totally agree