Double Ice Lancing and world ms/input tolerance

[ezekielyo]

The Double Ice Lance

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Change log

DOUBLE IL REMOVED AS OF 7.2.5

R.I.P

There has been some discussion in the discord channel recently on how exactly the double http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank works. Some players were reporting 100% success rates and others 0%. Before we continue, let's look into what exactly double http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank is.


What is double Ice Lancing

Double Ice Lancing is the method of fitting 2 http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank into the http://www.wowhead.com/spell=228358/winters-chill" target="_blank debuff applied from a instant cast http://www.wowhead.com/spell=228354/htt ... 354/flurry" target="_blank proc (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190447/brain-freeze" target="_blank proc). This also requires [/size]us to stand closer to the boss than you may be used to to offset the travel time of the http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lances" target="_blank themselves.

The rotation is simply:

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=228354/htt ... 354/flurry" target="_blank (with http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190447/brain-freeze" target="_blank proc) -> http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank -> http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank

Doesn't this require a lot of haste?

Hell yeah it does. Luckly, we have multiple ways of buffing our haste significantly: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12472/icy-veins" target="_blank and http://www.wowhead.com/spell=80353/time-warp" target="_blank (Troll racial http://www.wowhead.com/spell=26297/berserking" target="_blank). It is also possible to obtain with the http://www.wowhead.com/item=140809/whis ... bonus=3515" target="_blank trinket but since it's proc rate is somewhat elusive, the easiest way to obtain the required haste is through http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12472/icy-veins" target="_blank and http://www.wowhead.com/spell=80353/time-warp" target="_blank. Below is a graph showing haste breakpoints / Distance from target.

All Credit to Architech


So why did you mention world ms/input tolerance then??

I'm glad you asked. Input Tolerance is the amount of time the server uses to queue up your next spell while your current spell is casting.
0 ms Lag Tolerance means you have to hit the spell EXACTLY when the previous spell has finished/gcd is reset. This is obviously not possible since we are not robots and also not sat on top of the server cluster so Input Tolerance is used to remove as much of this human error as possible (with a spell queue system).
400ms uses the actions you pressed in the last 400 milliseconds as the amount of queue time. So, if I hit http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank with 400 milliseconds left on my previous cast/gcd, it will queue up and cast an http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank when next available.

Great, why does any of this matter?

When I first heard about the double http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank, I was unable to reproduce it. I tried multiple haste break points and different distances to the target. All failed. I was doing exactly what others were telling me and still failed.
However, further testing proved that the issue didn't lie in the order of actions but in the Lag Tolerance. I currently play with a lag tolerance of 30ms. As fire, I could perform very well but could simply not reproduce this double http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank. Other higher ranking fire mages were also in the same boat (Dutchmagoz-Senpai).

The issue we ran into was that we were unable to activate the spells fast enough. 30ms input tolerance was simply too strict even with mass key down action spamming of http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank. By simple increasing our input tolerance, we were able to achieve 100% results. Below are logs demonstrating this effect:


Credit to Dulcane for providing logs while I wrote this.

0ms Input Tolerance


200ms Input Tolerance


You see that with 0ms, the 2nd http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank which is cast ~.9 seconds after the first, does not gain the effects from Winter's Chill.

With 200ms, the 2nd http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank hits ~.8 seconds after the first and DOES gain the Winter's Chill effect.

This minute amount of time difference results in both a loss of damage AND uptime of http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12472/icy-veins" target="_blank through the http://www.wowhead.com/spell=80353/time-warp" target="_blank talent.

Video Examples:





How do I change my Input Tolerance?

Blizzard removed the default option but it can be accessed again via this addon:

https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/advan ... aceoptions

Once installed, follow this step by step:

Interface -> Addons -> Combat -> Custom Lag Tolerance

Others have reported you may also have to run this command to activate the Lag tolerance itself.

/console SetCVar("reducedLagTolerance", 1)

Conclusion

While this method will no doubt grant you extra dps, it is also much more of a hassle to pull off in a real world situation. Due to the 15 yard constraint of shatter Ebonbolt, there is an added element of 5-15yard "dancing" to maintain the double http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank during Lust. It does add another level of thinking to the spec but ultimately, I believe is a design flaw and should either be baked into the spec without the range requirement, or removed entirely.

Check List/TL:DR

Configure Input Lag Tolerance to desired amount (75ms works for me but different for everyone)
Get required amount of haste.
Stand within 0-15 yards of the boss.
Pop http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12472/icy-veins" target="_blank + http://www.wowhead.com/spell=80353/time-warp" target="_blank
Get http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190447/brain-freeze" target="_blank proc
Cast http://www.wowhead.com/spell=228354/flurry" target="_blank
Cast http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank
Cast http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank

Both http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lances" target="_blank shatter and also extend the duration of http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12472/icy-veins" target="_blank through http://www.wowhead.com/spell=155149/thermal-void" target="_blank (even though they are not affected by http://www.wowhead.com/spell=112965/fingers-of-frost" target="_blank). Op stuff.


Disclaimer

If you already run wow with high world ms, this may not affect you since your input tolerance is already high due to the time your actions take to register with the servers. The one time high ms was not a bad thing

[Astaine]

#bestlogseu time to see how long it takes for this to be patched out, just ran some normal guldan with it and oh boy can you keep veins up for a long time with it.

[Illeriia]

This is especially prevalent when time dilation or the elisande buff is up. If you have icy veins, time dilation, and the gul'dan trinket proc you can fit 4+ ice lances into winters chill, and with heroism, more.

[Makz]

Posting this as a request as I am at work and a bit lazy There was an addon which showed you distance to target, anyone still have that or a good weakaura? Would help a lot with the shatter range.

[Imaskar]

But what about not shattering previous FB as you don't stand far enough now? Do you just not care for it anymore? I guess we could still go out to shatter EC once in a while.

[nickseng]

Posting this as a request as I am at work and a bit lazy There was an addon which showed you distance to target, anyone still have that or a good weakaura? Would help a lot with the shatter range.

RangeDisplay

But what about not shattering previous FB as you don't stand far enough now? Do you just not care for it anymore? I guess we could still go out to shatter EC once in a while.

He did say

there is an added element of 5-15yard "dancing" to maintain the double IL

[Imaskar]

Well, you can't go out on everyY BF proc.

[Xzaar]

What is this Ebonbolt shatter range you're talking about?

[ezekielyo]

What is this Ebonbolt shatter range you're talking about?

You need to be at roughly 15 yards or more away from the boss to shatter the http://www.wowhead.com/spell=214634/ebonbolt" target="_blank with the http://www.wowhead.com/spell=228354/flurry" target="_blank straight after but within 10 yards (haste dependant) to double http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30455/ice-lance" target="_blank.


Hence, the "dancing" I mentioned.

[lwqyt]

but isn't the default Lag Tolerance already 400 ? so if 0 doesn't work but 75-200 works then the default 400 should also work or ?

[ezekielyo]

but isn't the default Lag Tolerance already 400 ? so if 0 doesn't work but 75-200 works then the default 400 should also work or ?

Mine was set to 30 but i remember changing it years ago, not sure if it ever reset. The number you need to set it too is also based off your ping to the server your playing on. I can't give you the perfect number (however there are addons which supposed can) so you'll have to find out for yourself by tweaking it.

[Imaskar]

How much haste % (not rating) is needed to do this? I think tracking actual haste is simpler that all those proc combination. Especially considering metronome with its different proc levels.

[Laere]

I have my lag tolerance set to 200 (I have 24ms in game) and have had 0 issues so far.

I have been 2x IL'ing a lot, and there are some fights where you have to dance a lot, but after a while you get used to doing it. It's quite fun, melee mage ftw!

[Valedictoria]

For people wanting to practice double IL: you can go for archimonde LFR. when he's below 30% he will cast nether banish and will despawn if you don't kill him quick enough. all your cooldowns get reset on despawn.

Archimonde has ~50M HP which is enough for most people to last an entire bloodlust. If you high itemlevel you might be able to kill accidentally

You can access WoD LFR by talking to an orc named "Seer Kazal" he sits just outside your main garrison building.

[ezekielyo]

For people wanting to practice double IL: you can go for archimonde LFR. when he's below 30% he will cast nether banish and will despawn if you don't kill him quick enough. all your cooldowns get reset on despawn.

Archimonde has ~50M HP which is enough for most people to last an entire bloodlust. If you high itemlevel you might be able to kill accidentally

You can access WoD LFR by talking to an orc named "Seer Kazal" he sits just outside your main garrison building.

Good shout but why not just go to current lfr/normal and test?

[Valedictoria]

For people wanting to practice double IL: you can go for archimonde LFR. when he's below 30% he will cast nether banish and will despawn if you don't kill him quick enough. all your cooldowns get reset on despawn.

Archimonde has ~50M HP which is enough for most people to last an entire bloodlust. If you high itemlevel you might be able to kill accidentally

You can access WoD LFR by talking to an orc named "Seer Kazal" he sits just outside your main garrison building.

Good shout but why not just go to current lfr/normal and test?

You are able to test with every cooldown up every minute instead of however long LFR/Normal might take.

[Menghi]

Hi ezekielyo , its Menghi from Beta dunno if u remember, how are you?

Thank you for this great insight, I just come back from a month break, don't know what happen but my fire dps drop significantly so I'm checking out logs and find out that Frost is the flavour of the month.

After reading your guide, Evandis on youtube and watch Preheat stream , I got home and did some practice and I run into some problems.

1. After install the add-on, I set lag input to 100 ms, it result me sometimes don't press the key fast enough and my character standing still, if I press an ability before global cooldown come off, it will not do anything unless I set lag input to 200+ ms. (Don't know exact where the problem is but I find my character standing still alot of the time)

2. I run into tripling my ice lance alot, if I somehow press Icelance while the second icelance is about to go off, even tho I press Frostbolt before the second Icelance come off, it will cast the third Icelance instead of frost bolt.

3. On the bright side, from Evandis video. I've learnt that you can flurry then move up to the target will enable doing 2 icelance easier.

I'm playing with 40-80ms

[Texhex]

is there any weakaura/addon that can calculate and display the moment you can fit in 2 Ice Lances after flurry?
During BL and Icy Veins its pretty obvious, but sometimes you can achieve that aswell with different combos if you have alot haste metronome or other haste proccing trinkets. Sometimes i even got 3 in that benefitted from winters. Like BL icy veins whispers and/or during chrono fast time / elisande fast bubble.

would be cool to have like a display, when to use 1/2/3.
like even more displays 1yd, 15yd, 30 yd.

[ezekielyo]

1. After install the add-on, I set lag input to 100 ms, it result me sometimes don't press the key fast enough and my character standing still, if I press an ability before global cooldown come off, it will not do anything unless I set lag input to 200+ ms. (Don't know exact where the problem is but I find my character standing still alot of the time)

2. I run into tripling my ice lance alot, if I somehow press Icelance while the second icelance is about to go off, even tho I press Frostbolt before the second Icelance come off, it will cast the third Icelance instead of frost bolt.

3. On the bright side, from Evandis video. I've learnt that you can flurry then move up to the target will enable doing 2 icelance easier.

What you are describing is basically not configuring your tolerance ms correctly. Sometimes you are clipping, sometimes over casting. You need to find a sweet spot where you can spam hard enough while not triple "gcd"ing. It's different for everyone and I cannot tell you exactly what it is but for me, 75ms was the go to.

[Dutchmagoz]

is there any weakaura/addon that can calculate and display the moment you can fit in 2 Ice Lances after flurry?
During BL and Icy Veins its pretty obvious, but sometimes you can achieve that aswell with different combos if you have alot haste metronome or other haste proccing trinkets. Sometimes i even got 3 in that benefitted from winters. Like BL icy veins whispers and/or during chrono fast time / elisande fast bubble.

would be cool to have like a display, when to use 1/2/3.
like even more displays 1yd, 15yd, 30 yd.

There isn't a set haste or distance level where you can do it. You can do it with less haste procs if you're fgar away and shimmer forward after the flurry, and you need more haste if you don't move. You need 100%+ haste AND to be within 15 yards to do it without moving though.

I recently made a weakaura which shows you when you did it succesfully, so it helps with practicing: https://www.altered-time.com/forum/view ... =20&t=3917" target="_blank