[TC]Just a DPET Chart

[Hanodar]

You should be happy our moderators are temporarily absent :p

Never absent. Only quiet, good sir.

[Crabmodem]

i'm enjoying watching this thread. Glad to know there are more people out there who are into the math side

[Kver]

You should be happy our moderators are temporarily absent :p

Never absent. Only quiet, good sir.

I stand corrected.

If I ever get a HWF BBoY I am totally trying this by the way :>

[Trelane]

it doesn't look like it's even 2pc holding an FoF charge, so the difference is probably larger (unless I'm just misreading it and it is doing it)

Is holding an FoF charge for Frozen Thoughts considered to be proper play? My napkin math suggested there is no benefit to it, and running it through Simcraft showed no change (or slight DPS loss) from holding a charge.

Intuitively, the benefit of boosting Ice Lance over Frostbolt is counteracted by losing a few FoF procs. Is there other evidence that this is a DPS gain?

[Komma]

it doesn't look like it's even 2pc holding an FoF charge, so the difference is probably larger (unless I'm just misreading it and it is doing it)

Is holding an FoF charge for Frozen Thoughts considered to be proper play? My napkin math suggested there is no benefit to it, and running it through Simcraft showed no change (or slight DPS loss) from holding a charge.

Intuitively, the benefit of boosting Ice Lance over Frostbolt is counteracted by losing a few FoF procs. Is there other evidence that this is a DPS gain?

In theory, since you can hold up to 2 FoF charges and FoF charge generation is deterministic outside of Frozen Orb, you can always hang onto 1 FoF charge during frostbolt spam without it being wasted. There shouldn't be any "losing FoF procs". Obviously, you'd have to make sure you spend it before it expires. Since DPET of FoF Ice Lance > DPET of Frostbolt+Icicle until you have ridiculous amounts of mastery and haste, I'm pretty sure it's a DPS gain.

If you have a Simcraft APL for that, I'd be interested in seeing the changes made.

[durrtygoodz]

it doesn't look like it's even 2pc holding an FoF charge, so the difference is probably larger (unless I'm just misreading it and it is doing it)

Is holding an FoF charge for Frozen Thoughts considered to be proper play? My napkin math suggested there is no benefit to it, and running it through Simcraft showed no change (or slight DPS loss) from holding a charge.

Intuitively, the benefit of boosting Ice Lance over Frostbolt is counteracted by losing a few FoF procs. Is there other evidence that this is a DPS gain?

I will right more about this in a new post I'm making about the more `advanced` play of frost. The general rule is yes, pool 1x FoF. FoF is bigger than Frostbolt so therefore 20% larger FoF is better. It's the same way you want to try and have the 2 set bonus up before aoe to use with CoC but that's a bit more random to get.

However there are times where you are more "at risk" of proccing both a BF and a 2nd FoF at the time. Obviously you have to go FFB>FoF but you can proc a 3rd FoF whilst doing so (waste) and if you have to refresh bomb here as well it can get messy.

Never go into a Frozen Orb with any BF/FFB, unless AoE is happening right that moment. If a bomb refresh is coming up, I dump. If my bomb has meta or berserking on it I don't pool either just because I have higher chance of getting BF, faster FB means I could get more FoF and also during meta the DPET of frostbolt is pulled really fucking close to ice lance, especially in my gear.

Hope this makes sense, those are basically my general "rules" for doing it and also it depends so much on what meta procs you get or what boss you are on.

[Komma]

I moved a bunch of simc APL related posts to the newly created Frost APL thread. We'll continue our discussion/investigation of FoF 1-charge camping over there.

[Akraen]

Or just break 2pc @ ilvl 588 and go 28k haste, then don't worry about it, bwuahahahah.

Also yeah, if you are using 2pc try to hold onto a FoF charge, but it's not the end of the world if you let a few go. One thing to remember is that if you're going to do some cleave with your icicles, i.e. on Galakras or Blackfuse, and the add is at high HP, you might want to *not* hold your charge so that your cleave happens. Otherwise just a couple seconds could result in the add being dead or low HP and you wasting a lot of potential icicle cleave.

[Akraen]

I hope this confuses everyone:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/d859 ... 3e24552425" target="_blank

Until I get a heroic BBoY... 26085(soft bp) + 822(elixir) + 1500(windsong) = 28407