Another Combustion Trick? 2T17+PC

[Smaiki]

How are people handling this with 4P? I just got mine today(although 3/4 are normal pieces). If I use inferno blast in the beginning to get a pyro, my 4set procs and after the 3-4 pyros my 2nd IB charge is still on cd for 3-4 seconds.

edit: So I tried a few things: First thing was that I just didn't inferno blast and hoped for a "manual" crit after getting heating up but that was very inconsistent despite my heroic Goren Soul Repository.

Same problem here. I also tried getting 2 crits w/o IB, but it almost never worked.
Just hope that the bonus does not trigger with the first Pyro! after IB.

[Alfredthegit]

I'm quite sure I have missed something fundamental, but I am not seeing the ignite spreading being added in the way described in the original post.

I performed a very simple test on the garrison target dummy of dropping PC, pyroblasting it then 2x IB to stack the ignite.

I made sure to only pass ignite to the one dummy, and I removed some of my gear to avoid any potential complications, just wearing 2 part Tier.

From what I have read here, I would have expected the target dummy to have an ignite value that reflected the initial pyro ignite passed from IB, then to have that added to, by the second IB, a value that comprises of (Pyro Ignite + First IB ignite) - Ignite tick 1 - Ignite tick 2.

A screenshot of the resulting combat log is here:

http://i.imgur.com/ocgPU5j.png" target="_blank

What I believe should have happened was this:

Mastery 17.22%

Pyro = 11701 Remaining PC Ignite = 11701*0.1722 = 2014.9
IB = 4248 Remaining PC Ignite = 2014.9 + (4248*0.1722) = 2746.4

Ignite of pyro only passed to target dummy = 2014.9

Tick (PC) = 458 Remaining PC ignite = 2746.4 - 458 = 2288.4
Tick (PC) = 458 Remaining PC ignite = 2248.4 - 458 = 1830.4

2nd IB = 4248 Remaining PC ignite = 1830.4 + (4248*0.1722) = 2561.9

Remaining Ignite of pyro and 1st IB only passed to target dummy = 1830.4

Total ignite passed to target dummy = 2014.9 + 1830.4 = 3845.3

However from the screenshot you can see the total ignites on the target dummy were:

403
384
384
384
384
384
384
Total = 2707

I can only conclude from this that ignite stacking does not work, but you chaps seem to be using it successfully. What am I missing?

[TLTeo]

You need high levels of Haste for it to work properly, so you should wear your gear and use timewarp.

[Wilderness]

What is the minimum level of haste to make it work? Obviously getting down to a 1 second GCD is ideal, but can it be done under lesser haste effects than heroism/troll racial?

[TLTeo]

I have no idea; if anyone has access to both shards and darmac's it might be worth testing wether you can do it with both those active, or even just one of them.

[Alfredthegit]

You need high levels of Haste for it to work properly, so you should wear your gear and use timewarp.

I got the impression from Komma's post on page 2 that haste was useful merely to lose as few ticks of ignite as possible:

It definitely doesn't just "overwrite". Getting close to the 1 sec GCD is important, to avoid too many ticks of ignite being lost in between spreads.

[Smaiki]

I have no idea; if anyone has access to both shards and darmac's it might be worth testing wether you can do it with both those active, or even just one of them.

Yes, I got Darmarc's Mythic this ID and used it yesterday with Shards HC for Hans'gar & Franzok progress + Berserking, Kindling which is nice for fights w/o Hero/BL/TW on the pull.
So I had > 50% haste and reached the GCD while spamming Pyros!.
Unfortunately, Darmarc's haste buff and Berserking expired almost every time before I could use 2x IB, dropping me under the GCD again.
My best attempt yesterday was a 28,273 (56,546 crit) damage combustion.
Double spread ignite went from 22,107 to 35,341 damage after the 2x IB on Franzok.

Btw, remembering old times with AT when some of us moved backwards/forwards after Alter Time. Is anybody doing this (actually moving towards the boss) with 4pc proc? Is it worth it and possible to save an ignite tick here thereby increasing the ignite damage pool --> Combustion?

Code: Select all

00:00:16.978 Smaiki Inferno Blast Hans'gar *22139* 00:00:17.257 Smaiki Ignite Hans'gar Tick 23766 00:00:17.382 Smaiki Pyroblast Hans'gar Tick 4868 00:00:17.896 Smaiki Pyroblast Franzok Tick *9737* 00:00:18.007 Smaiki Ignite Franzok Tick 22107 00:00:18.195 Smaiki Inferno Blast Hans'gar *21402* 00:00:18.235 Smaiki Ignite Hans'gar Tick 21907 00:00:19.014 Smaiki Ignite Franzok Tick 35341 00:00:19.250 Smaiki Ignite Hans'gar Tick 18737 00:00:19.544 Smaiki Inferno Blast Franzok *19926* 00:00:19.671 Smaiki Pyroblast Hans'gar Tick *9064* 00:00:19.804 Smaiki Combustion Franzok Tick *56546*

[Berlinia]

For 2 targets wouldnt it be more worth to IB one and then IB the other and then combust?

[TheHolyChicken]

For 2 targets wouldnt it be more worth to IB one and then IB the other and then combust?

It won't make any difference whatsoever - the ignite/combust values will be the same. You want to (and please correct me if I'm wrong):

Get huge ignite
IB (other target is burning)
IB (other target is REALLY burning)
swap to other target
combust
IB (spread mega-combustion to all targets)

[Berlinia]

you're totally right

[Dannemmar]

Get huge ignite
IB (other target is burning)
IB (other target is REALLY burning)
swap to other targetcombust
IB (spread mega-combustion to all targets)

I'm the only one having problems in getting a huge ignite without using IB ? Testing on dummies i'm able to get a +50% inflate on the secondary target (the one on which i will cast combustion) but using the standard rotation i'm getting a bigger ignite on main target.

Also this trick can't be used with 4p proc unless you are super lucky and get a double 4p proc (happened once) or you fish for it's proc from a pyro! from 2 consecutive fireball crit (it's a looong fishing)

now have someone simcrafted if with 4p bonus is better to do the 2p trick or to get as much pyro! proc as you can to engage 4p ?

[Chev]

I'm the only one having problems in getting a huge ignite without using IB ? Testing on dummies i'm able to get a +50% inflate on the secondary target (the one on which i will cast combustion) but using the standard rotation i'm getting a bigger ignite on main target.

Why are you not using IB? This is what you are meant to be doing. You build the ignite on the main target, use IB to spread to secondary target, both targets now have the same ignite value. Use IB again (immediately). Primary target now the same Ignite as the 1 GCD ago but the secondary target now has double the ignite value of the main target. You switch to the secondary target, Combust, this will reset a charge on IB allowing you to spread the combustion around but if you were building the ignite on PC, then that should no longer be up so you can save the IB for your next heating up.

now have someone simcrafted if with 4p bonus is better to do the 2p trick or to get as much pyro! proc as you can to engage 4p ?

This was covered a few posts a go. It is not currently possible to sim this trick due to technical limitations but this is being worked on.

[Dannemmar]

I'm the only one having problems in getting a huge ignite without using IB ? Testing on dummies i'm able to get a +50% inflate on the secondary target (the one on which i will cast combustion) but using the standard rotation i'm getting a bigger ignite on main target.

Why are you not using IB? This is what you are meant to be doing. You build the ignite on the main target, use IB to spread to secondary target, both targets now have the same ignite value. Use IB again (immediately)

I'm using it to get the pyro! proc, then i fish for a heating-up and if 2nd charge of IB cooldown is less than 2GCD+fireball cast fireball+pyro. Now, if i don't get another pyro! proc the ignite i get on main target is small and even with the +50% of double IB the ignite on secondary target isn't exceptionally good. I can start the fishing again that means fish for a heat-up, get a pyro, camp on it untill heating-up and double IB ready....

My impression is that if i'm unlucky i'm loosing a lot of IB use waiting for the moon sun and stars to align properly....

[TLTeo]

If you watch the video, Komma doesn't immediately dump Pyros into the Crystal, but instead waits a bit so that the second IB charge is back. Between those couple of casts and the time you effectively spend dumping pyros (assuming this is during timewarp you will possibly also have crit procs to help you), there should be enough time for IB to come off cd again.

Obviously if you don't chain pyros because of bad RNG, your combustion is going to be sucky nonetheless, but at least during a pull it shouldn't happen.

[Dannemmar]

Obviously if you don't chain pyros because of bad RNG, your combustion is going to be sucky nonetheless, but at least during a pull it shouldn't happen.

This is the problem. Probably i don't have enough crit. With 4p i switched to mastery

[Becks]

You DO need a crit proccing trinket with sub 40% crit buffed, but with it your opener is crazy. Just watch the proc and place PC no matter if you had Pyro+ HU or not. The crits shall come.

[TLTeo]

Yeah i have ~33% crit raid buffed, but DMC3+Repository and my pulls are fucking glorious.

[Kerrert]

I'm having trouble performing this trick regularly (I did it once when the 4 pc cooperated on the dummy and the stars aligned), but one thing that trips me up often is this:

-Cast FB till have HU
-use IB for Pyro

Now I have a Pyro but no HU

-keep casting FB till HU also appears

Often I am mid cast of a new FB when HU from the last FB appears. I now have both procs and am mid FB cast.
Interrupting FB to drop PC is a dps loss, so I don't do it, but if I wait until my current FB has been cast, I often lose HU (perhaps due to overwriting?) and then I'm fucked for beginning PC ignite. Unbuffed, my haste value is mid 600s currently. I'm sure there is something fundamental or really obvious that I've misunderstood about performing this trick, please help me see it!

[ShaObito]

So, I finally got 2 pc from pugging normals and I've been trying to get this to work out properly, what gear level are you guys seeing your numbers in? I feel like I'm doing something wrong because I'm only hitting ~9k-ish combustions in 675 gear and I feel like I should be getting a bigger number based on some of the stuff poster here. Or are most of your numbers just really really good RNG?

[Smaiki]

I'm having trouble performing this trick regularly (I did it once when the 4 pc cooperated on the dummy and the stars aligned), but one thing that trips me up often is this:

-Cast FB till have HU
-use IB for Pyro

Now I have a Pyro but no HU

-keep casting FB till HU also appears

Often I am mid cast of a new FB when HU from the last FB appears. I now have both procs and am mid FB cast.
Interrupting FB to drop PC is a dps loss, so I don't do it, but if I wait until my current FB has been cast, I often lose HU (perhaps due to overwriting?) and then I'm fucked for beginning PC ignite. Unbuffed, my haste value is mid 600s currently. I'm sure there is something fundamental or really obvious that I've misunderstood about performing this trick, please help me see it!

Well, that's just the normal behaviour of HU.
If your next spell with HU crits, you'll get another Pyro and thus overwrite the already existing Pyro!,
if you don't crit, you'll lose the HU proc.
In both cases, you won't have a HU proc after the FB.

So, I finally got 2 pc from pugging normals and I've been trying to get this to work out properly, what gear level are you guys seeing your numbers in? I feel like I'm doing something wrong because I'm only hitting ~9k-ish combustions in 675 gear and I feel like I should be getting a bigger number based on some of the stuff poster here. Or are most of your numbers just really really good RNG?

Mid 680's, I guess. And yes, RNG is also a thing. I think we're all posting personal "records" here and they are always the result of good RNG (crits, multistrikes, 4pc procs , other procs etc.). The average is of course lower.