[Guide] Fire 2+4pc, how to make the most out of it!

[gameorg]

I feel like there was not enough research done to spread the Haste-Cap Information over the other forums already. So i did some variations with Spec, and Target Number to see how it effects the Stat priority

The following Sims are done with the Heroic T17 Profile (674 Haste Unbuffed) - BW+ROP+PC

This is Dual Target, Haste is still Good, but the Gain is less (or lets say mastery gets better).

The Statscaling still lists Haste behind Crit/Mastery but dont get confused by that, because this pretty much only says what the next Point provides. It is important to understand that below the Haste Cap haste doesnt scale linear. This means Haste Scaling is VERY gear specific. For some players extra haste is not worth it (if they dont reach the cap) and for some players every point would result in a gain - As i said, its very specific and Plot-Scaling will provide you the personal information needed.


This is Dual Target without 5% Haste Buff (faking low Haste-Gear). This shows, that with superlow Haste, its not worth to go for Haste if you cant reach the Cap. (The Cap is outside of the Graph Range right now).

Triple Target is the same as Dual Target, but with Haste passing Mastery just slightly.



Now lets go for some more interesting Staff: Same Profil but this Time with LB-IF-Kindling which is what most raiders use. Single Target.

This is very interesting, We can see a Peak again, but i dont really have an explanation why its scaling so linear afterwards.


This is without 5% Hastebuff - Faking low Haste Gear. Haste is still close, but dont gear for it if you cant reach the cap.


Dual Target, Still a Peak, Mastery a bit closer


Triple Target, Still a Peak, but little.

On Five Targets, there is still a Haste Cap and actually a little bit more stable. On 10 Targets, Haste stabilizes above mastery, Living bomb takes over the Chart.


Summary:

Yes, its worth to go for the Haste Cap (above 700~). Especially on Single Target but also on Multitarget. Due to Lag/Position/Reaction time its somwhere around 800-900 Haste.
Hastescaling is very haste dependent. If you have super low Haste, its not worth to Equip it until you can surpass the cap. This is due to the extra Pyro. This means you have to do Plot-Scaling yourself to see what your stat Priority is.
Up to 3 Targets, the Difference between the Haste Peak and Mastery gets smaller. From there on, the more targets the better is haste (until a point where haste is better in general).

[TLTeo]

I only ran single target because it's a much more realistic situation. Good point on multi target. That LB/IF graph is really wierd though.

The random circumstances you mention can all happen in sims (except a haste trinket proc actually, because iirc the 680 profile has Repository+Blackiron), so they are already accounted for. To be honest though, the chances of having 4p and a trinket proc going off at the same time during a fight are extremely low, so i don't think they change things drastically.

Also, the cap is above 674. 674 haste is what the 680 default simc profile has, the cap is slightly (100ish?) above it

[gameorg]

I only ran single target because it's a much more realistic situation. Good point on multi target. That LB/IF graph is really wierd though.

The random circumstances you mention can all happen in sims (except a haste trinket proc actually, because iirc the 680 profile has Repository+Blackiron), so they are already accounted for. To be honest though, the chances of having 4p and a trinket proc going off at the same time during a fight are extremely low, so i don't think they change things drastically.

Also, the cap is above 674. 674 haste is what the 680 default simc profile has, the cap is slightly (100ish?) above it

For me the Dual/Tripe Target situations matters more, because thats were we actually play fire right now. Another thing which i didnt sim would be Waves of Adds, but since we cast alot of LB there, i assume that haste is generally good in that situation.

Yeah, you are right i took the random circumstances out of the post already after my final edit, i dont think they matter too much. The only situation i could imagine resulting in a dps gain, would be intentionally delaying an active trinket for a few seconds because you know that 4P wasnt proccing for a long time. True, 674 is the Zero Point of the Graph, Its something above 700. But the suggestion of 800-900 is the practical one.

I am currently rerunning the LB-IF-Kindling Single Target, to check if i made something wrong. This graph doesnt make sense to me tbh.

edit: Nope, nothing wrong there. Same result. Maybe the other theorycrafters have an idea on that one

[TLTeo]

For me the Dual/Tripe Target situations matters more, because thats were we actually play fire right now. Another thing which i didnt sim would be Waves of Adds, but since we cast alot of LB there, i assume that haste is generally good in that situation.

Meh, yes and no. The closest fights to that are Hanz and Franz and Maidens i guess, but even on those either one of the two twins is away for a significant amount of time during the fight, or you should (mostly) focus on burst single target for the final phase, so i still feel like single target is a slightly more realistic situation. Sims with waves of adds iirc are pretty inaccuare, so i wouldn't worry about those.

edit: ok this is odd; i ran things for the Mythic profile with LB/Kindling and it doesn't show any kind of haste scaling like that:


For heroic, including crit:


So basically for LB/Kindling on single target (not that ever happens anyway), haste and crit might scale slightly better than mastery, for some gear sets, which is sort of reasonable when you think about it. LB scales much better with haste than BW does, and crit is still king on ST. It feels like the default Heroic profile is just in a really bizarre place gear-wise.

[gameorg]

the peak is stll visible on the first graph, Haste is just above it and the peak is very little. For my personal gear (686) equipping/gemming haste was a slight dps increase, or lets say its close to dps neutral. However, trying to cast a third pyro (and failing it) would dramatically reduce dps, so i went for it anyway.

[TLTeo]

the peak is stll visible on the first graph, Haste is just above it and the peak is very little. For my personal gear (686) equipping/gemming haste was a slight dps increase, or lets say its close to dps neutral. However, trying to cast a third pyro (and failing it) would dramatically reduce dps, so i went for it anyway.

The peak is visible, but the crazyass haste scaling you found for the heroic profile isn't.