[Discussion] Patch 6.2 PTR

[Frosted]

Has anyone done testing yet with the 2pc Arc yet? It just seems it will give constant mana issues due to burning precious regen all the time.

Why would it give mana issues? It doesn't force mana use you cannot control. It might require some shift in the % mana we sit at for conserve though to take the PoM during AC build into account.

[Ianes]

Currently you just burn like normal, except down to 0% mana instead of 50% with AP up.

AP glyphed or not? I assume not since you were talking about how Frost is bad with legendary ring due to 3min cd.

[Frosted]

Currently it's running unglyphed.

Just keep in mind this is still during the PTR, and we're still working on all of this stuff. Things can (and probably will) change. Both in our understanding of the mechanics, and possibly the mechanics themselves.

Don't treat what I'm saying as gospel, but rather as "this is what is working best at the moment, but could be wrong." Feel free to make suggestions!

[Killget]

Spec comparisons, LIVE vs PTR. Frost numbers include the most recent FB/FFB changes (nerfed from 30% -> 20%) and the FoF buff (100% -> 120%).

I turned off set bonuses for now, since T17 set bonuses are not really relevant anymore and we're still waiting on the Arcane 4pc to be revealed in a way that lets us model it. Once it's in (and we're happy about how the APL handles all the different set bonuses) I'll reintroduce it to the comparison.

Just wondering if this can be modeled yet now we have more knowledge of the Arcane t18 4set

[Zelendria]

Has anyone done testing yet with the 2pc Arc yet? It just seems it will give constant mana issues due to burning precious regen all the time.

Why would it give mana issues? It doesn't force mana use you cannot control. It might require some shift in the % mana we sit at for conserve though to take the PoM during AC build into account.

Turning a 2 second cast spell into a GCD will have an impact on mana consumption, or more importantly the recovery, for every AB.
Seems to me that by using PoM all you're doing is setting up your Barrage quicker by having even less mana once you're at AC4

[Frosted]

Spec comparisons, LIVE vs PTR. Frost numbers include the most recent FB/FFB changes (nerfed from 30% -> 20%) and the FoF buff (100% -> 120%).

I turned off set bonuses for now, since T17 set bonuses are not really relevant anymore and we're still waiting on the Arcane 4pc to be revealed in a way that lets us model it. Once it's in (and we're happy about how the APL handles all the different set bonuses) I'll reintroduce it to the comparison.

Just wondering if this can be modeled yet now we have more knowledge of the Arcane t18 4set

Pets are kind of a pain in the ass to do in SimC. I'll see if I can get something done here tonight though. Expect something around 2-3% based on logs though for the 4pc. 2% for the 2pc.

ST sims currently looks like Frost>arcane>fire with set bonuses. Arcane>frost>fire without. Dunno if there is something up with them though. I just really quickly ran them once we confirmed how the frost 2pc worked.

[Frosted]

Has anyone done testing yet with the 2pc Arc yet? It just seems it will give constant mana issues due to burning precious regen all the time.

Why would it give mana issues? It doesn't force mana use you cannot control. It might require some shift in the % mana we sit at for conserve though to take the PoM during AC build into account.

Turning a 2 second cast spell into a GCD will have an impact on mana consumption, or more importantly the recovery, for every AB.
Seems to me that by using PoM all you're doing is setting up your Barrage quicker by having even less mana once you're at AC4

It will, yeah. But you can still conserve just fine. If the PTR were not down I'd hop on and see how it is, but I think it should be fine looking at the sim mana timeline using it.

[Smaiki]

For those interested, I made a list of all the HFC gear for us.

http://pastebin.com/xpN2y4Ai" target="_blank

( crit / ms ) means the item has more crit than ms. ( crit//ms ) means the item has significantly more crit than ms.

Thank you for your efforts and the great list.
I don't know why but some items are missing in your list and wowhead (http://ptr.wowhead.com/zone=7545/hellfire-citadel" target="_blank) compared to the ingame dungeon journal:

# SHOULDERS=====================================================================
# tier - http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=124177/mant ... &bonus=567" target="_blank ( Crit / Haste )

# WAIST =====================================================================
# 735 - http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=124200/demo ... &bonus=567" target="_blank ( Mastery / MS )

#LEGS =====================================================================
# 730 - http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=124164/legg ... &bonus=567" target="_blank ( Haste / Crit )

# FEET=====================================================================
# 720 - http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=124148/peda ... &bonus=567" target="_blank ( MS // Haste )

[Frosted]

Thanks for finding those.

I had a feeling I missed some when there was only 1 pair of boots.

http://pastebin.com/nuBru8nq" target="_blank

is updated.

[Killget]

For those interested, I made a list of all the HFC gear for us.

http://pastebin.com/xpN2y4Ai" target="_blank

( crit / ms ) means the item has more crit than ms. ( crit//ms ) means the item has significantly more crit than ms.

(I have added the 4 missing, exported all and formatted for the thread. remove if unnecessary)

# MAINHAND=====================================================================
# 720 - Runic Magnaron Tooth ( mastery/haste )
# 720 - Mindbenders Flameblade ( crit/ms )
# 725 - Fallen Warlords Mindcarver ( haste/crit )
# 725 - Saber of Twisted Virtue ( ms / mastery )
# 725 - Deceivers Felbeak Wand ( haste/crit )

# OFF-HAND=====================================================================
# 725 - Gibbering Madness ( ms//crit )
# 730 - Thumping Demonheart Fetish ( mastery//haste )

# TWO-HAND=====================================================================
# 725 - Spur of the Great Devourer ( mastery/crit )
# 730 - Voidcore Greatstaff ( ms//haste )
# 735 - Edict of Argus ( haste/mastery )

# HELM=====================================================================
# 725 - Cowl of a Thousand Hungers ( vers/haste )
# 730 - Countenance of the Revenant ( ms//haste )
# 735 - Demon Princes Ascendant Crown ( mastery//crit )
# tier - Cowl of the Arcanic Conclave ( crit/ms )

# NECK=====================================================================
# 720 - Glowing Firestone (crit//ms)
# 725 - Choker of Forbidden Indulgence ( haste//ms )
# 730 - Immiscible Liquid( mastery/crit )

# SHOULDERS=====================================================================
# 720 - Pilots Pauldrons ( haste/mastery )
# 725 - Amice of Phantasmal Power ( mastery/crit )
# 735 - Mantle of the Eradar Lord ( haste/ms )
# tier - Mantle of the Arcanic Conclave ( Crit / Haste )

# BACK=====================================================================
# 720 - Sparkburnt Weldars Cloak ( crit / haste )
# 725 - Shawl of Sanguinary Ritual ( ms/mastery )
# 730 - Cloak of Hideous Unity ( haste//ms )

# CHEST =====================================================================
# 720 - Felgrease Smudged Robes( ms / vers )
# 725 - Ancient Gorestained Wrap ( mastery/crit)
# 725 - Raiment of Divine Clarity ( crit/ms )
# tier - Robe of the Arcanic Conclave ( haste/mastery )

# WRIST=====================================================================
# 720 - Powder Singed Bracers ( ms/haste )
# 725 - Pristine Manari Cuffs ( vers/haste )
# 725 - Cursed Blood Bracers( mastery/ms )
# 730 - Contemptuous Wristguards ( crit/mastery )

# HANDS =====================================================================
# 720 - Craggy Gloves of Grasping ( crit/haste )
# 725 - Velvet Bloodweaver Gloves ( haste / mastery )
# 730 - Satin Gloves of Injustice ( ms/crit )
# tier - Gloves of the Arcanic Conclave ( ms/crit )

# WAIST =====================================================================
# 720 - Sludge Soaked Waistband ( haste/ms )
# 725 - Demonbuckle Sash of Argus ( Mastery / MS )
# 730 - Sash of Unending Anguish ( mastery/haste )

#LEGS =====================================================================
# 720 - Dias Nightmarish Leggings ( vers / haste )
# 730 - Leggings of the Iron Summoner( Haste / Crit )
# tier - Pantaloons of the Arcanic Conclave( mastery/ms )

# FEET=====================================================================
# 720 - Pedal Pushing Sandals ( MS // Haste )
# 730 - Bloody Dagger Heeled Pumps ( crit/vers)

# FINGER=====================================================================
# 720 - Sootstained Felsworn Signet ( crit/mastery )
# 725 - Seal of the Traitorous Councilor ( haste/crit )
# 730 - Loathful Encrusted Band ( mastery/ms )

# TRINKETS=====================================================================
# 720 - Iron Reaver Piston ( int/crit=haste )
# 720 - Desecrated Shadowmoon Insignia ( mastery / int_proc_rppm )
# 725 - Unblinking Gaze of Sethe ( int / blacklight_proc_rppm )
# 730 - Prophecy of Fear ( int/Mark_of_doom_proc_rppm )
# 735 - Tome of Shifting Words ( mage_trinket )

[Ensar]

I'm also curious why you guys think the Frost version of Archimonde trinket is bad. At first glance i was like "holy shit this is awesome, 76% on Ice Lance O.o??" Is it because during burst you don't really get any effect from it?

Ignoring the numbers part of it, the trinket is actually really annoying to try and play with.

The problem is that the tier set gives you a ton of Ice Lance procs to use from Water Jet, and as you need to cast Frostbolt before each of them it takes a long time to clear them all. It only takes a couple of additional procs (normal ones or from Frozen Orb) to basically over fill you. So by the time Water Jet is off cooldown you more often than not have Ice Lances that have. So you have to waste trinket value or set bonus value, which feels sucky to play with.


Along the same lines, Arcane feels really really clunky to play with the Presence of Mind spam. Even more so when you can't macro it in to a spammed button.

[Ianes]

The problem is that the tier set gives you a ton of Ice Lance procs to use from Water Jet, and as you need to cast Frostbolt before each of them it takes a long time to clear them all. It only takes a couple of additional procs (normal ones or from Frozen Orb) to basically over fill you. So by the time Water Jet is off cooldown you more often than not have Ice Lances that have. So you have to waste trinket value or set bonus value, which feels sucky to play with.

Along the same lines, Arcane feels really really clunky to play with the Presence of Mind spam. Even more so when you can't macro it in to a spammed button.

It's not perfect no, doesn't feel great, but I do think Frost trinket is better than Arcane 2pc, clunkyness-wise. Regarding macroing PoM - you can actually do it, it's just that it won't use it on the first cast that it's available, but on the 2nd, which means less uptime :/

[Offroad]

So I made sort of a workaround for a spammable button with AB and PoM cause it doesn't let you put in /cast PoM for example. It doesn't work very well for me on PTR if I am casting back to back AB's, could be because of the high ping because I live in Europe. Always works after AM, nova etc and other instants.

For optimal use of PoM you probably don't want to macro it, and use it manually instead.

Macro is:

Code: Select all

#showtooltip Arcane Blast /cast [nochanneling] Arcane Blast /click MultiBarRightButton12

What the macro does is click your actionbar, in this case the button showed on the picture. Then cast AB. You can change MultiBarRightButton12 to whatever button you prefer, I dont remember the names of the others, sorry.

[Offroad]

Derped a bit, moved the PoM to after AB, now works better but it's casting PoM one AB to late while spamming so it's channeling AB when it could be instant with PoM instead. Then the next one is with PoM and instant.

[Frosted]

Gonna post this here:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 830?page=6" target="_blank

That's the Bnet official feedback thread for set bonuses. You can find some of my posts in there, talking about the current set bonuses and their problems (and which ones are good, like the Fire ones!).

I'd highly recommend people go test the set bonuses and post in that thread. Mainly because I really want to try and get the 2pc changed, because of how it negatively impacts our rotation in terms of feel and spammy-ness for relatively little DPS gain.

Please don't use buzzwords like "clunky" in your feedback. Limit your use of abbreviations, and assume you are talking to someone who doesn't know mage. Odds are, you are talking to a Community Manager who is gathering feedback for the people who work on the set bonuses.

[Xei]

ST sims currently looks like Frost>arcane>fire with set bonuses. Arcane>frost>fire without. Dunno if there is something up with them though. I just really quickly ran them once we confirmed how the frost 2pc worked.

Is that with 6.1 or 6.2 set bonus's?

Whilst I love all the cool theorycraft you guys do here (I used to do it myself when I was a hardcore progression raider back in the EJ heydays), many of us more casual raiders are concerned about what spec we should aim for in 6.2. More specifically, what gear we should start collecting now to make the transition easier.

So Frost stat priority would be Multistrike then ? (Mastery got buffed, does that make it #2 or is it haste?)
I assume Arcane won't change (Mastery > Haste) and Fire Cleave being Crit/Mastery?

[Frosted]

There are no set bonuses in that. Thus the "no tier" columns being populated while the "tier" ones are empty. It's old and is overvaluing Frost at the moment if it has the +20% FoF buff (which still isn't in the game yet)

[Frosted]

Single target values for how some stuff looks at the moment. We still need to work on adding ring synergy to the APL (which I have a feel is going to change how things look a bit). I'll probably start on that tomorrow when I wake up since I have profiles done now.

We also need to make the frost robomage smarter when he's using the T18 Frost 4pc.



I'm not sure what specs we'll be playing right now. I'm leaning towards Frost/Fire; but I'm honestly not sure. Frost sims have always been high compared to what people can achieve. No clue why.

Either way, we'll want 4pc for Fire. But it's complete garbage for Arcane/Frost at the moment. If that changes I'll update it.

Right now it's looking like we'll replace mythic with normal / heroic if we're playing Frost/Fire, probably not if we're playing Arcane/Fire.

[Searix]

Thanks for the sims, though looking forward to 6.2 seems like everything arcane will be the only single target spec again.

My guess is combusting the crystal would be fire's best single target dps, but im not sure. Assuming we stack up HU+Pyro then drop it we can get a good 6 seconds of +30% damage combustion.

Don't think it would be competitive with current 2pc spread crystal but should be close. Would be awesome if you found the time to sim it

Edit: We could also inferno blast at the end of our pyro chain for a slightly higher combustion

MOD: Moved from Fire Sim C discussion thread

[Frosted]

A friendly warning to all my fellow mages:

Don't use SimC to evaluate the legendary ring. There are some..ah - technical problems - that komma and I need to work through before you should bother spending time on it. No data you get from it is at all useful or representative of it's effects on DPS.