Prophecy of Fear [Megathread]

[Caledur]

I have a question regarding the interaction of PoF with the 4p set bonus and class trinket, and I hope this is the right section to post this.
If PoF procs during a period of high FoF generation (for example while Frozen Orb is active or during Water Jet channeling), is it worth dumping all shatter lances into the Mark of Doom target as soon as possible, disregarding the benefit from the class trinket? I feel casting Frostbolt before each Ice Lance severely reduces the potential damage from PoF, but would like to see some numbers.

[Magemamaa]

Thanks guys for the great work so far. One question, is it better to cast arcane missiles on a target that only has a few seconds of Mark of Doom left when I have only 0 to 1 stack of Arcane Blast?

[Searix]

Thanks guys for the great work so far. One question, is it better to cast arcane missiles on a target that only has a few seconds of Mark of Doom left when I have only 0 to 1 stack of Arcane Blast?

Quick math with my profile http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... rix/simple" target="_blank

(All non crit/non multi because they affect all the skills equally)
Doom nova: 18k hits
Arcane Missiles: 6k hits x5 (0 arcane blasts)
Arcane Blast: 20k hits

AM/Doom Nova: 18k x 5 + 6k x 5 = 120k
Arcane Blast = 20k hits
Other factors: Close to the same casting time, but we do lose one AM buff, get possibly slightly more mana for AMing over ABing

Conclusion: Always dump all AMs by doom nova's end, ESPECIALLY if it can hit more than one target

I have a question regarding the interaction of PoF with the 4p set bonus and class trinket, and I hope this is the right section to post this.
If PoF procs during a period of high FoF generation (for example while Frozen Orb is active or during Water Jet channeling), is it worth dumping all shatter lances into the Mark of Doom target as soon as possible, disregarding the benefit from the class trinket? I feel casting Frostbolt before each Ice Lance severely reduces the potential damage from PoF, but would like to see some numbers.

Again with my gear:

Crit/multi factored in to all of these:

Ice Lance: 70k
Ice Lance w/o trinket: 41k
Frostbolt: 24.5k +10% Unstable Magic = ~27k
Frostbolt cast time: 1.2 secs
Doom Nova: 14k

So already we see we're seeing -29k (Ice lance w/o trinket) +14k (Doom Nova)= -15k damage, but we're also losing stacks of FoF by ignoring the rotation. Also consider Frostbolt is already near the global cooldown in heroic gear so we're not really losing much doom nova procs.

Personally i'd (and i do this btw) link Comet Storm to Mark of Doom procs exclusively. Especially in cleave fights (read archimonde/mannoroth, and if it's not cleave then why aren't you arcane?)

[Hysteriiaa]

Does anything exist ( like a macro or add on ) to target and cast ab at the target who have mark of doom ?

The best would be a macro with which I could cast ab on my target, and a macro line that when there is mark of doom on an other tagret, it will switch to it.

Is it possible with something?

Thanks a lot !

[Stressball]

Does anything exist ( like a macro or add on ) to target and cast ab at the target who have mark of doom ?

The best would be a macro with which I could cast ab on my target, and a macro line that when there is mark of doom on an other tagret, it will switch to it.

Is it possible with something?

Thanks a lot !

Nope, not possible. Need to find it yourself and then switch targets.

[Mortiferus]

Does anything exist ( like a macro or add on ) to target and cast ab at the target who have mark of doom ?

The best would be a macro with which I could cast ab on my target, and a macro line that when there is mark of doom on an other tagret, it will switch to it.

Is it possible with something?

Thanks a lot !

From my earlier post in this very thread on this topic, discussing how this sort of macro or addon is impossible because Blizzard specifically blocks this during combat:

You'll need to track the debuff via Tidy Plates or the like, notify yourself via WA or the like, and then manually adjust targeting and/or focus.

If you need the WA string that I use or help setting up Tidy Plates to show only your Mark of Doom debuff, please let me know. But ultimately, you have to do the hard work here and manually find the right target.

[Bashlow]

I track the debuff very easily with TellMeWhen, implementation takes 2 mins, even for dummies like me.
But it seems that my Tidy Plates only show me the debuff on the specific target when I mouse over or tab the right target. can someone help me figuring out how to highlight it in the moment it appears?

[Shyrel]

As many times mentioned before, it works GREAT with Tidy Plates. Just want to let u guys know

[Searix]

Cross-posting this here for discussion

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status ... 1544331264

This will make a significant difference on the opener. Using the tricks in this thread for the opener I'm averaging about 1 million doom nova damage on the opener, which is gonna be 250k-500k more nithramus damage based on the level of your ring, amplified by any extra mobs on the opener

[Searix]

Which brings up questions again about the opener. A big problem I've found is I'm mana capped during AM dumps onto marked boss, especially with tome we should probably be trying to fit in an arcane blast on crystal as long as all the missiles will still hit (before mark expires)

[Searix]

1. How big is the numerical difference, each time it happens?
2. How often does this situation happen?

For Prophecy of Fear weaving with PC, let's assume for now that it's solidly established as a DPS gain compared to other tricks (which we really haven't)...

Most of my pulls were 400k (we for no reason decided to struggle tonight on Iron Reaver) using PoF priority lists.

On the kill i did 22.32mil damage. Meaning the roughly 8 million damage on the pull was worth about 1/3rd of my overall dps

[Komma]

On the kill i did 22.32mil damage. Meaning the roughly 8 million damage on the pull was worth about 1/3rd of my overall dps

That doesn't tell me anything. All mages do a lot of damage on the opener with Tome of Shifting Words, because the whole point of the trinket is to focus all the gain within the 15 seconds of Arcane Power. The main thing is "how much damage do you gain on average from using this alternative opener, when compared against a standard one". "On average" means including the pulls where you don't get procs in the way you want (ie. no AM procs, or POF being triggered on the boss instead of PC).

What you've established so far is that Arcane Mages can burst really hard with whatever opener you're doing. We already know that, and Arcane Mages burst really hard regardless of the opener they use. The point is to find out how much damage is gained on average when using whatever trick you are doing. Considering how there is a ~70% chance to trigger Mark of Doom on the boss with literally the first spell, you would need 1M/0.3 = 3.33 million additional damage done, just through whatever mark of doom gaming, to meet an arbitrary 1 million average damage gained per fight. I think it is safe to say that this isn't the case. Most of the time, you will neither have Mark of Doom on the right target, nor will you have the AM procs to game Doom Nova for the damage differential you are looking for.

This isn't to say PoF+PC analysis should be dismissed. But my whole point is this: optimizing only for an opener is short sighted. You need absolutely extreme gains, often with very few compromises, before you see real overall gains. These extreme gains have not been established.

[Velerion]

So many of the posts on here suggest using SN on PC and what not but what confuses me is shouldn't we be specc'd UM, especially on single target fights which seem like the majority of fights we'll be running into this situation? Does making PoF + PC work call for using SN?

[Searix]

On the kill i did 22.32mil damage. Meaning the roughly 8 million damage on the pull was worth about 1/3rd of my overall dps

That doesn't tell me anything. All mages do a lot of damage on the opener with Tome of Shifting Words, because the whole point of the trinket is to focus all the gain within the 15 seconds of Arcane Power. The main thing is "how much damage do you gain on average from using this alternative opener, when compared against a standard one". "On average" means including the pulls where you don't get procs in the way you want (ie. no AM procs, or POF being triggered on the boss instead of PC).

What you've established so far is that Arcane Mages can burst really hard with whatever opener you're doing. We already know that, and Arcane Mages burst really hard regardless of the opener they use. The point is to find out how much damage is gained on average when using whatever trick you are doing. Considering how there is a ~70% chance to trigger Mark of Doom on the boss with literally the first spell, you would need 1M/0.3 = 3.33 million additional damage done, just through whatever mark of doom gaming, to meet an arbitrary 1 million average damage gained per fight. I think it is safe to say that this isn't the case. Most of the time, you will neither have Mark of Doom on the right target, nor will you have the AM procs to game Doom Nova for the damage differential you are looking for.

This isn't to say PoF+PC analysis should be dismissed. But my whole point is this: optimizing only for an opener is short sighted. You need absolutely extreme gains, often with very few compromises, before you see real overall gains. These extreme gains have not been established.

Which is why i really, really wish the arcane sims were working with weaving. I've tried, i really have, to do it myself in simcraft, but after probably 4 hours of experimenting i still can't seem to add it to the opener without completely breaking it (including weird problems where it evocates to 48% then stops).

Again: I'd really, really like for someone to complete weaving APL on the opener (i listed a few to-dos and the psuedo-code in the Arcane Sims thread if someone here wants to tackle it.)

Here's the 400k dps in sims (Red line shows where previous image ends):
http://i.imgur.com/uVORYFp.png" target="_blank
ABx4, ABx1 planning to AM (another thing im not sure if it's a dps loss or addition, trying not to mana cap).
AP/cools/Nithramus-AM, PC while missiles in midair. Note the missiles hit for 25599+doom novaing crystal for 33279 (non crit/multi)

http://i.imgur.com/zcFRwlr.png" target="_blank
2nd AM on boss, start of AB spam on boss

http://i.imgur.com/jZxQpjN.png" target="_blank
More AB spam, Nithramus hits for 1,267,390

[Searix]

Quick and dirty math before i go:
I cast Arcane Blast every .8 seconds, but at the cost of rapidly depleting mana, log 3 shows it hits for ~200k non crit/multi on crystal (all of this is considering non crit/multi to make it easier). However adding on more ABs in the normal method will add blasts closer to 130k since we're going even deeper into the mana pull

From above every arcane missiles hits for 25599+33279=58878x5 missiles = 294,390 doom nova (again before multis/crits) + 30138x5 missile damage= 150690+294390=445080 before multi/crit from one AM

Other things to consider:
We may get mana capped
Losing the 30% amp on crystal of missiles (-45207 from the 445080=~400k bonus damage)

Really have to go to work, would be interested for someone to complete this for me while im out

[Myrdinn]

I started to look into ur logs this afternoon and to try establish an APL for this.
One question, do you know what are the PC damages between 7:232 and 7s600, all these 9984 values ?

[Searix]

Doom nova multistrikes (9984/.3=33280)

You also see the same value at 06.907 and 07.159, they are probably just delayed from earlier novas

[musclepharm]

(Assuming that you are using Prophecy + Tome trinket)

So i understand that if you only have 1 AM proc, you dump that onto the boss that has mark on it, drop crystal before missiles land and then AP + AB the crystal and burn normally.

However, what should we do if we have 2 or 3 AM procs? Should we dump all 3 AM procs into the mark of doom, then drop crystal? Or should we cast 1 AM into mark of doom, drop crystal, switch back to boss and cast the remaining AM, switch back to PC and start burning normally?

Thanks.

[Searix]

Ideally Ap/Am boss, drop crystal while that's in midair, AB crystal once -I think-, Amx2 boss if it can hit Mark, AB crystal burn

Edit: it should actually be dps neutral to just hit the boss with that AB. So it should be (if Mark procs on boss on first 2 ABs): AB to 4, cooldowns including AP, AM, PC, AB, AM as many times as they'll proc doom nova, burn crystal

[musclepharm]

Does AP need to be popped that early? Can you cast it after the first AM (I don't know if it affects the spell if you cast AP while the missiles are in midair), basically casting it the same time you drop your crystal. You can save a bit of time this way and maybe squeeze in an extra AB at the end.