Legendary ring and cooldowns

[halfawake]

So I just realized simcraft general sims are modeled without the legendary 735 ring and that the ring is much better for those with 2 minute cooldowns. I just got my ring and was the only one with it but now more are getting it and I'm sad about how much better it will be for some classes. Has anyone done any theorycrafting on whether it might be useful to hold the cd if you have a lot of 3 minute cooldowns in your raid? I'm pretty sure if it's used on cooldown our dps will suffer compared to others with 2 minute cooldowns and may not even be optimal for the raid if you have a lot of 3m cooldown classes.

[Chiv]

Hmm simming after I got my ring it was like 10k dps increase patchwerk lol

I think arcane you delay unglyphed AP by 30 seconds to sync and frost 1 min for icy veins on the 4 min mark

[yungg]

probably depends on fight timer. For ex, a 3m-3m30s fight, you'd want to delay it until 3m, but if you lose a ring use, it'd be a dps loss even for 3m cd classes.

[Unbearievabl]

For arcane in particular I'm wondering if it changes the way you burn. Specifically I wonder what the viability of a deep burn is especially if you get good AM procs since you won't need Evocation for an extra 30 seconds. I'm also wondering if the ring bring Supernova back into favor since UM would give you more damage throughout a fight but SN would be a stronger burst ability favoring the ring's incredible ability. The opener for the ring is also interesting because as of now it is not benefiting from Doom Nova procs and if the ring is used on pull we are going to need to quickly get into our burn phase if we want to get any use out of it. I'll play around with the ring tonight in raid and see if I can find any answers with field testing. I don't know how SimC is currently modelling Doom Nova's interaction with the ring proc as that may skew results.

[Valounette]

Hmm simming after I got my ring it was like 10k dps increase patchwerk lol

I think arcane you delay unglyphed AP by 30 seconds to sync and frost 1 min for icy veins on the 4 min mark

It's really worth delaying icy veins by 1min?

[Zelendria]

Would it not be better as Frost to use IV on CD as normal and just appreciate that you will only catch it in line with the ring every 6 mins after the opener?
1m delay seems a long time..

I suppose it also heavily relies on kill timers. Any boss <6m in length means you would only ever use IV twice so it would probably be better to have it happen on a ring use.

If the boss was to last 4m 50s as a random example

0m- Ring and IV
4m - Ring and IV
4m 50s - Dead

As even optimal use would still have it on CD when the boss dies.

[Rabona]

For arcane in particular I'm wondering if it changes the way you burn. Specifically I wonder what the viability of a deep burn is especially if you get good AM procs since you won't need Evocation for an extra 30 seconds. I'm also wondering if the ring bring Supernova back into favor since UM would give you more damage throughout a fight but SN would be a stronger burst ability favoring the ring's incredible ability. The opener for the ring is also interesting because as of now it is not benefiting from Doom Nova procs and if the ring is used on pull we are going to need to quickly get into our burn phase if we want to get any use out of it. I'll play around with the ring tonight in raid and see if I can find any answers with field testing. I don't know how SimC is currently modelling Doom Nova's interaction with the ring proc as that may skew results.

Well for me at least UM still sims [downloaded the nightly build a couple of hours ago] 2k dps ahead of SN(and NT) with PC. But I'Ve been wondering myself about how long we want to burn now, since getting PC/Evo out of sync shouldn't be an issue at all if we have to hold off on for 30 seconds because of the ring anyway, unfortunately I'm too thick to modify the APL myself.

Edit: I've looked at my simc results again and it shows me 5.3 PC executes and 3.3 Nithramus executes for the default 450s Patchwerk sim. So that means Robo mage is still casting PC on cooldown and instead syncs the ring use to PC (0m, 2m, 4m, 6m should mean >4 ring executes if it was used on CD?)?!
Isn't that kinda unrealistic in a real raid? Can someone by any chance tell me what line(s) I have to change so robo will use the ring on CD?

Edit2: adding "actions+=/use_item,slot=finger2[or 1, depending on where you wear the ring]" under "# Executed every time the actor is available." seems to have done the trick for me. UM_RoP_PC sims about 5% lower now (with my own gear).

[halfawake]

Prophecy of fear hotfixed to be included in Nithramus damage yesterday...

As far as simc, I didn't even know simc did partial numbers for cooldowns like that. What do the partial numbers mean? I hope it's not giving it uptime values inbetween what's possible.

To get arcane power to line up with the ring I used

override.spell_data=spell.12042.cooldown=120000

to put arcane powers cooldown to two minutes and that somewhat synced up ap and the ring. This showed that holding arcane power to use it with the ring was a 400 dps increase with talents supernova and arcane orb over using both ap and the ring on cd (side note, using the ring synced to only when ap is up but using ap on cd as it does by default is 3k lower than using the ring on cd alone). Haven't used any other talents yet but I'm curious if anyone else gets similar results. I'm sure there's a better way to do this than overriding arcane power's cooldown to two minutes but I don't know how to do it. This does show a small increase for holding it tho.
Edit: with prismatic crystal it's showing as a loss of 500 dps to hold arcane power and prismatic crystal to use with the ring. These tests were both done with a 450 second fight length. Will check back later with more.
Edit2: Per the other thread, prismatic crystal double dips on ring damage (damage done to crystal and target off crystal) and I'm not sure if simc is modeling it correctly. Will have to wait until someone more knowledgeable can check the profile. As it is, holding PC in SimC is a loss. Seems fishy to me tho with that knowledge.

[Rabona]

Prophecy of fear hotfixed to be included in Nithramus damage yesterday...

As far as simc, I didn't even know simc did partial numbers for cooldowns like that. What do the partial numbers mean? I hope it's not giving it uptime values inbetween what's possible.

Well simcraft runs a couple of thousand iterations and those vary in length, ±20% is the default setting I believe, so in some of the longer iterations it gets to use cooldowns once again which results in partial uses on average.

[Jhesian]

The explosion is only 20 yards for the ring.
Does anyone else feel this should be 30 or 40 for ranged dps?
I.e archimonde phase 1 if the explosion is about to happen and it's shadowfel burst spread time i will prob not be within 20 yards of targets so it's wasted

[Chiv]

The explosion is only 20 yards for the ring.
Does anyone else feel this should be 30 or 40 for ranged dps?
I.e archimonde phase 1 if the explosion is about to happen and it's shadowfel burst spread time i will prob not be within 20 yards of targets so it's wasted

We always have a melee activate it to avoid this

[Raijamy]

so does the fact that the ring is on 2 min cd increase the strength of Mirror Images (at least for frost) or does it still lack behind the other talents? damn i want that thing, 1 tome to go

[Chiv]

so does the fact that the ring is on 2 min cd increase the strength of Mirror Images (at least for frost) or does it still lack behind the other talents? damn i want that thing, 1 tome to go

I think with mirror images damage spread out over 40 secs, not sure how much damage the mirror images would do in that 15 sec ring window

[Rinoa]

so does the fact that the ring is on 2 min cd increase the strength of Mirror Images (at least for frost) or does it still lack behind the other talents? damn i want that thing, 1 tome to go

Mirror Images are still behind IF/RoP by quite a large margin when you have Nithramus.

[NotTrev]

The explosion is only 20 yards for the ring.
Does anyone else feel this should be 30 or 40 for ranged dps?
I.e archimonde phase 1 if the explosion is about to happen and it's shadowfel burst spread time i will prob not be within 20 yards of targets so it's wasted

We always have a melee activate it to avoid this

I know one of the earlier incarnations of the ring used to be "explodes from the activating hero" or some such, but currently the live version of the ring reads "each hero". Meaning you emit your own stored damage from that period, making the 20yd range problematic still.

Imo 40yd range seems like it would be a no brainer for casters that typically stand 30-40yds away, but having it explode as a 40yd pbae means hitting pretty much the whole room(a little imbalanced). A fair trade for ranged heroes, imo, would be a 40yd range, 10yd width path in the direction the hero is facing(or target direction) like the Seethe trinket(not sure if its target or facing, don't own it). Melee rings could keep the 20yd aoe.

[Namo]

I know one of the earlier incarnations of the ring used to be "explodes from the activating hero" or some such, but currently the live version of the ring reads "each hero". Meaning you emit your own stored damage from that period, making the 20yd range problematic still.

No, your explosion emit from the one who activated it. That means that all explosion hit, or none hit, exept if the explosion overkill all target in range, then some will be waster .