Arcane Talent Comparisons, Stat Weights, Racials, Trinkets

[Komma]

Ah, Frosted reminded me that I should clarify. Haste does lose ground against mastery when you stack it to very high levels (ie. past 33%++), but it's definitely not a case of "hey I have an extra attack on my pets, I should stop immediately".

[perchon]

I'm not sure if I'm retarded, but the way the Stat prio reads is for 2/4 piece, that Haste to 1300>int>haste>mastery

I have a 2 piece, and currently have haste @ 1859 (20.66% unbuffed). When I sim, it shows mastery & multistrike to outweigh haste by quite a bit. My assumption is that Haste to 1300>mastery~multi>haste is probably how it should read, at least for the 2 piece. But am I just retarded? I'm questioning my reading comprehension skills here.

[Chev]

Are you using Supernova? It doesn't benefit from Haste at all (other than a shorter GCD) where as Mastery makes it hit harder.

[Faustkampf]

Hi!

I've got my Tome on Monday and I've experienced yesterday some problems regarding the interaction with Prismatic Crystal and Supernova. Sorry if this questions were answered in another thread or even this thread, but I found nothing related in the Arcane and General Discussion threads.

1) SN vs. UM (T184PC + Tome)
How does SN interact with the Classtrinket during a PC Burn Phase?
Do I dump my SN charges with my AM Charges before I drop PC
or
is the SN interaction like before, without the trinket? Save both SN Charges and use it during PC?

PS: I know that UM should be better because of my Haste Setup,
but some fights (Kormrok Hands, Killrog Vision, High Priority Adds) prefer SN over UM.

2) AM Priority during PC Burn with UM (T184PC + Tome)

Not AMing during AP and while PC is up (except when you are 3xAM capped) is a gigantic DPS loss. Burn like normal when PC is up, regardless of trinket.

I'm sorry Frosted, if I didn't understand your answer (A7) properly,
but I have some questions regarding the usage of the class trinket (see below).

All options are dumping all AM Charges before the PC Burn Phase.

a) Use every AM Charge during PC. [AM > AB]
My experience with this option was that I used far less GCDs for AB and I could not benefit from the Trinket properly.

b) Use AM only with 3 Stacks during PC. [3xAM > AB > AM]

c) Ignore the AM Stacks and just burn with AB. [AB > AM]
This option leads to a fast Mana Burn and Sub 50% Mana during AP.
As a result of the extensive AB Usage I'm at 40% Mana and 3 AM Charges before Evocation.

Conclusion
I would be happy, if someone could share their experience regarding the SN usage with Tome during PC
and the best way to benefit from the class trinket during a PC Burn.

Thank you!

[Butosai]

Option A is what the Sims would suggest as the best dps, although I do agree with you, it doesn't feel like you cast enough AB a lot of the time.
I have the heroic wf archimonde trinket so when I use option C I actually oom before arcane power is even over(unglyphed) , which obviously is very bad.
I haven't tried option B but I feel it could be the best balance of both, either that or simply stop am-ing after a certain point.

[Sartiv]

Hi!

I've got my Tome on Monday and I've experienced yesterday some problems regarding the interaction with Prismatic Crystal and Supernova. Sorry if this questions were answered in another thread or even this thread, but I found nothing related in the Arcane and General Discussion threads.

1) SN vs. UM (T184PC + Tome)
How does SN interact with the Classtrinket during a PC Burn Phase?
Do I dump my SN charges with my AM Charges before I drop PC
or
is the SN interaction like before, without the trinket? Save both SN Charges and use it during PC?

PS: I know that UM should be better because of my Haste Setup,
but some fights (Kormrok Hands, Killrog Vision, High Priority Adds) prefer SN over UM.

2) AM Priority during PC Burn with UM (T184PC + Tome)

Not AMing during AP and while PC is up (except when you are 3xAM capped) is a gigantic DPS loss. Burn like normal when PC is up, regardless of trinket.

I'm sorry Frosted, if I didn't understand your answer (A7) properly,
but I have some questions regarding the usage of the class trinket (see below).

All options are dumping all AM Charges before the PC Burn Phase.

a) Use every AM Charge during PC. [AM > AB]
My experience with this option was that I used far less GCDs for AB and I could not benefit from the Trinket properly.

b) Use AM only with 3 Stacks during PC. [3xAM > AB > AM]

c) Ignore the AM Stacks and just burn with AB. [AB > AM]
This option leads to a fast Mana Burn and Sub 50% Mana during AP.
As a result of the extensive AB Usage I'm at 40% Mana and 3 AM Charges before Evocation.

Conclusion
I would be happy, if someone could share their experience regarding the SN usage with Tome during PC
and the best way to benefit from the class trinket during a PC Burn.

Thank you!

Hello! I got the trinket 2 days before (with 2 t18 atm), and went to UM with bad results.

After hours on dummy and bosses, i believe that the option b is the best. The option C has very bad results, indeed i went very easy oom. However, i switched to my old trinket, i have to collect first 4t18.

[Searix]

Using weaving APL, UM/PC, 1812 mastery, 1636 haste (profile)



Sanity check complete - Haste is best

[Komma]

Guys, this isn't a thread for asking questions about your personal sim results or profiles. If you have questions, take them to the Q&A forums. Also, please avoid giving advice in this thread, especially if it is from personal research. If you feel you have research worthy of public discussion, make your own thread.

Again though, I'd like to remind that stat weights will always depend on your character. It is normal for them to deviate due to differences in player stats, talent choices, trinkets, set bonuses and many other factors. There is no need to panic and post about them when they do not agree with suggested defaults.

[gormac]

Hi!

I've got my Tome on Monday and I've experienced yesterday some problems regarding the interaction with Prismatic Crystal and Supernova. Sorry if this questions were answered in another thread or even this thread, but I found nothing related in the Arcane and General Discussion threads.

1) SN vs. UM (T184PC + Tome)
How does SN interact with the Classtrinket during a PC Burn Phase?
Do I dump my SN charges with my AM Charges before I drop PC
or
is the SN interaction like before, without the trinket? Save both SN Charges and use it during PC?

PS: I know that UM should be better because of my Haste Setup,
but some fights (Kormrok Hands, Killrog Vision, High Priority Adds) prefer SN over UM.

2) AM Priority during PC Burn with UM (T184PC + Tome)

Not AMing during AP and while PC is up (except when you are 3xAM capped) is a gigantic DPS loss. Burn like normal when PC is up, regardless of trinket.

I'm sorry Frosted, if I didn't understand your answer (A7) properly,
but I have some questions regarding the usage of the class trinket (see below).

All options are dumping all AM Charges before the PC Burn Phase.

a) Use every AM Charge during PC. [AM > AB]
My experience with this option was that I used far less GCDs for AB and I could not benefit from the Trinket properly.

b) Use AM only with 3 Stacks during PC. [3xAM > AB > AM]

c) Ignore the AM Stacks and just burn with AB. [AB > AM]
This option leads to a fast Mana Burn and Sub 50% Mana during AP.
As a result of the extensive AB Usage I'm at 40% Mana and 3 AM Charges before Evocation.

Conclusion
I would be happy, if someone could share their experience regarding the SN usage with Tome during PC
and the best way to benefit from the class trinket during a PC Burn.

Thank you!

AM>AB - bonus set is very powerfull + if you use t3 on start too much mana burn + while you use AM your mana back... so only AB>AM if you are 90%+ mana

[cross34]

"If you're running Tome trinket, you want to burn all your missiles before PC is dropped and you pop AP. If you are running PoF, you want to delay PC until MoD is finished, while dumping all AMs into MoD immediately. If you're running both, combine this logic."

Hi,
What would be best to do if MoD procs on the boss while I have AP popped? (both with PC up, and if PC is over)
a. With PC still up, I continue to AB into the PC. However should I shoot AMs into the boss?
b. When PC is down, do I prioritize just using AB all the way until AP runs out, or shoot AMs since MoD is up?
Thanks

[Searix]

Added a TL;DR section to the prophecy of fear thread for cross34 and others who have questions

AM any marked target. Consider adding an AB on crystal then AMing (marked boss) to avoid mana cap
Supernova before it expires (on the crystal) if specced into supernova
Otherwise-normal burn rotation

If mark procs while cooldowns are up: Pop cooldowns, AM, drop crystal while missiles are in midair.

For more information: http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic ... 554#p15554" target="_blank

[taroboba]

If you have legendary ring, are you still holding AP/PC for the ring cd regardless of MoD procs? I believe Komma mentioned in another thread that the difference between using AP/PC on cd and holding for legendary ring might not be that large. In that case, would it be better to hold AP/PC for ring unless we get a MoD proc, in which case we can go ahead and use AP/PC for the MoD proc and go through our normal rotation for the ring afterwards?

[Causese]

How much of a dps loss is:

Popping crystal before pull -> AP+Prepot+Troll racial -> AB+(PoM+AB) -> spamming AM if there's proccs

[Frosted]

How much of a dps loss is:

Popping crystal before pull -> AP+Prepot+Troll racial -> AB+(PoM+AB) -> spamming AM if there's proccs

Fairly significant. You really don't want to be casting low AC stack spells into PC.

[jeiden]

Still have the weird sensation that using AM during AP+crystal is a big dps lost with archimond trinket (+29 % haste on it +29% dmg sometimes i cast AB in 0.8 sec and it hit over 150 k so missile can't make the same without GCD capping). My pull are fairly more signifcant without AM that with am and the 2p t18 is all about proc if it doesn't proc i feel that using am is a huge dps lost

[Searix]

I wonder this too. Current sims say to drop all your AMs before cooldowns but that's not always an option.
I'm wondering if AM is only good if done once early to keep you at mana cap

[jeiden]

well just to be sure of it : here are my current stats with 0 stack flask and Intel buff :
my ab hit for 22422 in 1.38 sec of casting (16247 dmg per sec) (under AP)
My AM hit for 4096*5 (20480) in 1.78 sec of casting (11505 dmg per sec) (Under AP)
The gap should be even further due to 5% reducted casting time on every Arcane blast we got from draenor perk
So without any POF proc How can spamming AM on crystal be more interessting than spamming AB into crystal ? and that's with the normal WF archimonde trinket wonder what happen if i had the heroic one the gap between those 2 spell will be even higher. So i don't get that theorycraft saying to use AM when on PC when over 65% mana. And please don't talk over the 2/4p t18 coz it's kinda betting on a proc to happen for me it's like Russian roulette on your burst. I liked arcane coz the output was constant and now it swing. Damnnnnn

[jeiden]

How much of a dps loss is:

Popping crystal before pull -> AP+Prepot+Troll racial -> AB+(PoM+AB) -> spamming AM if there's proccs

Fairly significant. You really don't want to be casting low AC stack spells into PC.

With POF you cast PC when you hit 2 stack to force the proc on the crystal so...

[Komma]

With POF you cast PC when you hit 2 stack to force the proc on the crystal so...

With a ~70% chance to proc PoF on your first Arcane Blast, I have trouble seeing how this can really be called a "force".

"2 stack and then PC" is an opener trick, and it's not even established as being superior. Please don't bring it up as if it's accepted as standard procedure.

[Searix]

It's an opener trick that typically adds 50-100k dps from empirical evidence, but you're correct we don't have exact numbers.

It works because, like you said a few months ago, .9 PPM trinkets have a little over 120 second timers, so if it hasn't proceed in your first two, it will shortly after (on your crystal, 127 second cooldown right?). From that point on every arcane blast does 70k more non crit/multi, every arcane missiles does MUCH more.

There's no need to be on opposite sides of this Komma