[SimC] WoD Arcane SimC Discussion

[Searix]

Caimion got a good ways into the Weaving APL, but it still needs work.

Todo:
Opener
Supernova crystal when there isn't enough time for Missiles to hit crystal
General testing if MoD procs with 8+ seconds and PC/AP come up

[Caimion]

Hmm, can you elaborate on the issues you're seeing with Supernova?

This line is intended for exactly that case.
actions.crystal_sequence+=/supernova,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20)

[Searix]

I think I managed to get a start on PC Weaving functionality in the APL.

-snip-

Something seems wrong with the code, a lot of it isn't firing off

Thanks, user syntax error Revisions below.

Code: Select all

# Conditions for initiating Prismatic Crystal # New Lines actions.init_crystal=call_action_list,name=cooldowns,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.init_crystal+=/prismatic_crystal,if=action.arcane_missiles_tick.in_flight&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) #Old APL Unchanged actions.init_crystal+=/call_action_list,name=conserve,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack<4|(buff.arcane_missiles.react&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20)) actions.init_crystal+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react&t18_class_trinket actions.init_crystal+=/prismatic_crystal

Code: Select all

# Actions while Prismatic Crystal is active actions.crystal_sequence=call_action_list,name=cooldowns actions.crystal_sequence+=/nether_tempest,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&!ticking&pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>8 actions.crystal_sequence+=/supernova,if=mana.pct<96 actions.crystal_sequence+=/presence_of_mind,if=cooldown.cold_snap.up|pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<2*spell_haste #New Line actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_missiles,cycle_targets=1,if=debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_blast,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&mana.pct>93&pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>cast_time actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_missiles,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.crystal_sequence+=/supernova,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.crystal_sequence+=/choose_target,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<action.arcane_blast.cast_time&buff.presence_of_mind.down actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_blast

Color me impressed this is actually working very well.

Main thing missing now is alternate opener - Dropping PC after 2 ABs because of the near guaranteed chance it'll proc on crystal

[Searix]

Although im confused why we're not delaying AP/PC to 2 minutes with nithramus

[Caimion]

Yeah, honestly that's the main reason that I'm not working more on weaving APL. I'm waiting to see what the experienced minds come up with for dealing with Nithramus first

[Komma]

The delay issue isn't done yet because so much logic depends on gaming around Evocation/PC/Unglyphed AP cooldown, all of which are 90 seconds. Banking SN charges and AMs (in the case of OP) gets really complicated when you need to retime everything around 120 seconds is painful, because it also needs to be gated by the condition of actually having the ring. Making sure it works with all talent combos is rather complicated.

It's a lot of work and I've been busy this week, so it'll have to wait a bit. For your info though, with current default talents (UM/PC), delaying CDs for the ring results if very little overall DPS changes.

[Daiceman]

The delay issue isn't done yet because so much logic depends on gaming around Evocation/PC/Unglyphed AP cooldown, all of which are 90 seconds. Banking SN charges and AMs (in the case of OP) gets really complicated when you need to retime everything around 120 seconds is painful, because it also needs to be gated by the condition of actually having the ring. Making sure it works with all talent combos is rather complicated.

It's a lot of work and I've been busy this week, so it'll have to wait a bit. For your info though, with current default talents (UM/PC), delaying CDs for the ring results if very little overall DPS changes.

I think that speaks to the power of the ring then if you can delay your cool-downs by 33% and see little to no change in dps. Could we see a rise in the power of Mirror Images then? Since the biggest issue with MI is they don't scale at all with mastery, and haste is our current top priority could we see MI pulling ahead, especially at larger ring proc values (IE as the ring approaches 45%)

And if so, does the model need to be updated to cast MI before the ring is used to spend all the rings duration casting damaging spells?

[Rabona]

What we have to keep in mind is that we most likely won't be activating the ring ourselves.
Which means worst case is we've just reset our arcane charges and spend a good chunk of the uptime rebuilding them.
And best case is probably something like ring gets used literally on cooldown, so we can reset our last conserve cycle early in order to gain our 4th arcane charge around the time the ring gets used again. However that still would not account for AM proccs (which I assume generally speaking we still want to dump before using PC).

I don't know if you can implement this kind of randomness into the APL or if you would even want to since the reality might still be different, but I guess that results would be misleading if robo mage was able to just line up everything perfectly by delaying the ring use a couple of seconds according to its own needs.



I hate that ring so much.

[Komma]

I think that speaks to the power of the ring then if you can delay your cool-downs by 33% and see little to no change in dps. Could we see a rise in the power of Mirror Images then? Since the biggest issue with MI is they don't scale at all with mastery, and haste is our current top priority could we see MI pulling ahead, especially at larger ring proc values (IE as the ring approaches 45%)

And if so, does the model need to be updated to cast MI before the ring is used to spend all the rings duration casting damaging spells?

It does speak to the power of the ring, yes. I mean, it's a 25% buff on top of another 25% multiplicative buff. The ideal case is that you use the ring during MI's duration, so that all 15 seconds affect MI.

MI's bigger issue is that buffing 15 seconds out of 40 doesn't make for a particularly compelling CD. Also, MI is so far behind that you would need to more than double its strength before you can make up between it and IF/RoP.

[Embers]

The delay issue isn't done yet because so much logic depends on gaming around Evocation/PC/Unglyphed AP cooldown, all of which are 90 seconds. Banking SN charges and AMs (in the case of OP) gets really complicated when you need to retime everything around 120 seconds is painful, because it also needs to be gated by the condition of actually having the ring. Making sure it works with all talent combos is rather complicated.

It's a lot of work and I've been busy this week, so it'll have to wait a bit. For your info though, with current default talents (UM/PC), delaying CDs for the ring results if very little overall DPS changes.

I've been delaying AP&PC to use with the ring, and I must have missed this comment earlier because it has not been working out for me very well, with the way my guild uses the ring.

Some fights its on cooldown, but the cooldown comes up and the ring is used during mechanics that make it difficult for me get an optimized burn out of it.

Other fights, our usage is deliberately delayed for specific mechanics, and delayed long enough that I could almost fit a burn phase into the time between the first and second use of the ring and be ready for a third when the ring is used but not quite.

I think my dps has suffered from trying to align all of the stars.

[Searix]

I think I managed to get a start on PC Weaving functionality in the APL.

-snip-

Something seems wrong with the code, a lot of it isn't firing off

Thanks, user syntax error Revisions below.

Code: Select all

# Conditions for initiating Prismatic Crystal # New Lines actions.init_crystal=call_action_list,name=cooldowns,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.init_crystal+=/prismatic_crystal,if=action.arcane_missiles_tick.in_flight&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) #Old APL Unchanged actions.init_crystal+=/call_action_list,name=conserve,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack<4|(buff.arcane_missiles.react&debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20)) actions.init_crystal+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.arcane_missiles.react&t18_class_trinket actions.init_crystal+=/prismatic_crystal

Code: Select all

# Actions while Prismatic Crystal is active actions.crystal_sequence=call_action_list,name=cooldowns actions.crystal_sequence+=/nether_tempest,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&!ticking&pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>8 actions.crystal_sequence+=/supernova,if=mana.pct<96 actions.crystal_sequence+=/presence_of_mind,if=cooldown.cold_snap.up|pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<2*spell_haste #New Line actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_missiles,cycle_targets=1,if=debuff.mark_of_doom.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_blast,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack=4&mana.pct>93&pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>cast_time actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_missiles,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.crystal_sequence+=/supernova,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<2*spell_haste+(target.distance%20) actions.crystal_sequence+=/choose_target,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<action.arcane_blast.cast_time&buff.presence_of_mind.down actions.crystal_sequence+=/arcane_blast

Used the above code for 100k sims



I know it's been a month, and this is the end of the expansion, but any particular reason this hasn't made it into the default APL?

[Komma]

Because it is a poor optimization that doesn't play like we do in game, has a lot of edge cases that aren't handled, and outclassed even by simple additions. For example, here's a result I just spent 2 minutes to whip up, but isn't even playing "correctly". All it took was adding target_if=max:debuff.mark_of_doom.remains in arcane missiles usage during PC.

DPS Ranking:
75621 100.0% Raid
75621 100.0% custom

A "POF Optimized" profile that doesn't outperform a completely "wrong" profile is not up to par for addition to the APL.

[Searix]

Because it is a poor optimization that doesn't play like we do in game, has a lot of edge cases that aren't handled, and outclassed even by simple additions. For example, here's a result I just spent 2 minutes to whip up, but isn't even playing "correctly". All it took was adding target_if=max:debuff.mark_of_doom.remains in arcane missiles usage during PC.

DPS Ranking:
75621 100.0% Raid
75621 100.0% custom

A "POF Optimized" profile that doesn't outperform a completely "wrong" profile is not up to par for addition to the APL.

So we're waiting on a fleshed out PoF APL before it gets pushed? I'd be ecstatic, is someone working on it?

[Komma]

Dunno if anyone else is doing anything interesting, but I am not actively working on a PoF APL at the moment, no.

[Sneww]

I know this has kind of already been beat to death, but...

I am attempting to do the sims for it now to get hard numbers. but as far as my parses go, saving AP/PC for the legendary ring seems well worth it. As the ilvl of the ring increases, the better it seems to be.

[Searix]

I know this has kind of already been beat to death, but...

I am attempting to do the sims for it now to get hard numbers. but as far as my parses go, saving AP/PC for the legendary ring seems well worth it. As the ilvl of the ring increases, the better it seems to be.

i asked frosted about this in the other thread, pairing with ring is equal dps only at base level ring. Any upgrades beyond that start to (significantly) switch the balance to pairing the cooldowns.

On a side note could you share what you changed in the APL to pair up cooldowns?

[Frosted]

I know this has kind of already been beat to death, but...

I am attempting to do the sims for it now to get hard numbers. but as far as my parses go, saving AP/PC for the legendary ring seems well worth it. As the ilvl of the ring increases, the better it seems to be.

i asked frosted about this in the other thread, pairing with ring is equal dps only at base level ring. Any upgrades beyond that start to (significantly) switch the balance to pairing the cooldowns.

On a side note could you share what you changed in the APL to pair up cooldowns?

I don't believe I used the word significantly, and I never said I did any concrete with it. It was more of a "yeah, it makes sense that as you increase ilvl you gain DPS by syncing more often". Maybe significantly if you're comparing base vs max?

[Searix]

Which is why i'd like the APL if he can supply it (or anyone else, i can't figure out how to do it myself), i'm not sure

my guess is pairing is worth 5-10k at max ring level vs. not pairing

[Frosted]

Changed the base GCD for AB during AP with ToSW to 1.2, up from 1.0, to match in-game data.

Relevant Commit: https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc ... 050737334f" target="_blank

[Komma]

Updated Arcane action list to time CDs against Nithramus, every 2 minutes. Doesn't do anything for 735 ring users, but slight gain as you the ring gains itemlevels, capping at less than 4% gain even with 795 ring.

my guess is pairing is worth 5-10k at max ring level vs. not pairing

More like ~3K or less. Komma sees a ~1.5K gain with 756 ring.