Arcane Talent Comparisons, Stat Weights, Racials, Trinkets

[Frosted]

Pretty much.

[adrift]

I have seen a few good arcane logs for Gorefiend using OP, but that is simply due to the nature of the fight. And obviously it will be very RNG as far as AM procs. If you get lucky it can do a lot for that specific fight though.

[jeiden]

Well actually mage arcane is subject to RNG even more than fire (5.1 vs 4.7) mage we have more dps variance than fire mage so....
The diffence between the lowest dps and the highest for the same stuff is about 28k + ( 90 k max , 62 k min source: http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T18H.html" target="_blank) and that's from a sim in patchwerk style so imagine if you have to move on first try and don't on the other your dps can swing like hell.
Previously you could rely on arcane dps to be stable it's not the case anymore //sad....

[Zifnab]

Frosted,

I have a question about your trinket comparisons. Are you swapping around glyphs in those comparisions? Or just unglyphing AP for *all* of them?

Is there that much of a disparity between, say, the Tome of Shifting Words vs the Unblinking Gaze of Sethe when you consider the fact that you'll unglyph AP w/ Tome, and glyph it w/ Sethe?

I'm asking this because another theorycrafter's told me that they've done a lot of arcane trinket testing, and come to the results that Tome is almost equal to Sethe in single-target, and falls behind in multi-target, so they suggest mages go Sethe + PoF for arcane mages in general.

I haven't really seen that myself, and find it a bit hard to believe based purely on my own experiences with Tome, but I was wondering about your take on it.

[Frosted]

They are all unglyphed.

The different in DPS between glyphed and non-glyphed is sub-500 (I think it's around 350?) DPS. Nowhere near enough to make up for the difference between Tome and Sethe. I haven't seen anything putting Sethe anywhere near Tome, and nothing I've experienced in game would suggest it either.

If they've done a lot then they can post data for us to go through, yes? Point them to these forums to do so.

[Searix]

Racials

[/size]

Spoiler:

Re-ran racials section with my profile (ilvl 719 orc, PoF/Tome), using the optimized PoF simcraft in the simcraft thread (optimized PoF rotations gives ~+1k per race so not a big deal)


100k sims for each race

Pretty obvious troll is on top due to haste becoming our best stat, and burst racials pairing well with the ring

[Searix]

Maxxing the ring it turns out to be a 2.5k difference between troll and the next highest



I wouldn't treat this as gospel however. The APL seems to pop ring every 3 minutes to pair with that AP/Crystal round, getting 50% less uptime on it when you probably can't do that when ring is maxed.

[Chev]

Tome is almost equal to Sethe in single-target, and falls behind in multi-target, so they suggest mages go Sethe + PoF for arcane mages in general.

I was running some quick sims the other day just to check the difference between the trinkets for my current gear and I saw something similar. Perhaps it is because I am not yet at the recommended Haste levels for the 4 set or because I have a mixture of normal and HC gear. When I get some time I will try to flesh it out some more.

[Frosted]

Updated single trinket list sims to reflect recent changes to AB base GCD when using AP and ToSW.

[arleezy]

Was wondering where I could find optimal stat weights for a build running with Supernova, IF and Arcane Orb. Would Mastery overtake Multistrike in this case?

And also, if you would be so kind to direct me to an updated Frost build with UM, IF and TV.

Much appreciated.

[Frosted]

SimC?

[arleezy]

Apologies. I really don't know how to come up with optimal stat weight values based on my profile? Looking for numbers to plug in and edit using the askmrrobot tool.

[Frosted]

Far too much work to generate "optimal" weights for every profile / person who asks. Just running your profile through SimC and using the default weights it generates should be good enough.

[Zandis]

Quick Question,

Why is Demonbuckle BiS over Unending Anguish? Not only do we lose the 137 haste as arcane but we also are -5 mastery wearing Demonbuckle over Anguish. So is it the +13 intellect that makes it worth the loss of the haste?

[Wilderness]

Quick Question,

Why is Demonbuckle BiS over Unending Anguish? Not only do we lose the 137 haste as arcane but we also are -5 mastery wearing Demonbuckle over Anguish. So is it the +13 intellect that makes it worth the loss of the haste?

I'm not sure what stats you're looking at, but its 15 Int difference, you lose 6 Mastery, and 157 haste, but you also gain 184 Multistrike. I assume the single-target stat weights in the OP are for the BIS Mythic single-target profile and if you do the simple math there you can see why its better. Maybe those stat weights are different now as the APL has gone through updates and changes, but Int is always very valuable and that's why ilvl almost always wins out.

[Zandis]

Quick Question,

Why is Demonbuckle BiS over Unending Anguish? Not only do we lose the 137 haste as arcane but we also are -5 mastery wearing Demonbuckle over Anguish. So is it the +13 intellect that makes it worth the loss of the haste?

I'm not sure what stats you're looking at, but its 15 Int difference, you lose 6 Mastery, and 157 haste, but you also gain 184 Multistrike. I assume the single-target stat weights in the OP are for the BIS Mythic single-target profile and if you do the simple math there you can see why its better. Maybe those stat weights are different now as the APL has gone through updates and changes, but Int is always very valuable and that's why ilvl almost always wins out.

Sorry looking at Heroic Stats. So considering I'm gearing right now Heroic BiS and at like 16% haste unbuffed and have both H Demonbuckle and H Anguish which one should I equip?

[Shadra]

So considering I'm gearing right now Heroic BiS and at like 16% haste unbuffed and have both H Demonbuckle and H Anguish which one should I equip?

Only way to know that would be to sim your character with both belts.

[Frosted]

Because it's not worth losing the item level to gain the haste.

[Neopold]

Are there any new "rules" and "soft-caps" to keep in mind when we talk haste now with mythic gear + 10ilevels?
Top geared guys can reach 2.8k haste without to much hassle these days (would be crit/haste ring + haste/versa wrist and a "few" sockets) but it looks like most start gemming/enchanting mastery>haste around 2.2k. Is this due to personal simming only (and does that work with the armory not showing upgraded gear?) or is there some rule to it?

[Rinoa]

There's not a hard and fast rule to it, but it's important to keep in mind that for higher haste levels the value of haste is heavily diminished while under the effect of Arcane Power and Time Warp. This period is a significant part of the fight on very short fights such as Iron Reaver, Kormrok, Zakuun meaning it loses ground to other stats.

Haste is still brilliant on most fights, but that could be the reason why many are veering away from the super high 2.5k+ haste levels. Personally I'm at 1999 and don't want any more.