Hello!
Frosted, as we spoke over IRC last night I upload my simc input data and the results I've obtained.
Input data:
http://pastebin.com/3MNAVZD6" target="_blank - full mult gems and enchants
http://pastebin.com/Pwbk7rmT" target="_blank - full haste gems and enchants
Simulation conditions:
10000 iterations, 700s +/- 5%, light movement, 1,2,3 targets.
simmed for UM/IF/TV talents on 727ilvl char with 725gaze+741tome
Results:
https://yadi.sk/d/qlgbhOkZiZtGv" target="_blank
in case the page doesn't open in English: http://i.imgur.com/ARZbHkF.jpg" target="_blank
The issue I've got is that I'm getting very similar dps numbers for both mult and haste builds for 1,2,3 targets respectively. In all scenarios stat weights give preference to haste when I go full mult and vice versa.
As I've played for quite a while in both haste and mult builds I can give some sort of practical explanation to these results so confusing to me.
Going full haste can compensate the dps loss caused by decrease in mult because of these factors:
1. haste makes frostbolt weaving faster thus reducing the delays of water jet
2. haste might allow to squeeze one extra frostbolt in 10sec water jet (most likely on weapon enchant proc)
3. haste reduces the amount of FoF procs you waste (4+) when you're extremely lucky and get tons of FoFs, as you consume procs faster
On a sidenote all these factors result in higher Icy Veins uptime for haste build.
In my results for 1 target veins uptimes were 23.71% vs. 24.90% for mult and haste builds respectively.
As expected, in pratice I could extend veins much longer with haste build.
Finally I've obtained similar results (full haste dps = full mult dps) on at least three different Simc builds with a bit lower gear. Using 32bit GUI from http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D" target="_blank
[SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
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Breaktheice
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:19 pm
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
Water Jet and Frostbolt scale identically with Haste. Aka piling on more Haste will make your Frostbolt cast faster, but at the same time will also make your Water Jet shorter.2. haste might allow to squeeze one extra frostbolt in 10sec water jet (most likely on weapon enchant proc)
Worth noting that with Thermal Void any Ice Lance cast will effectively yield anywhere from 0.5 (0 Haste) to 1 (GCD capped) extra second on your Icy Veins because the Ice Lance itself takes a GCD. In all my tests with a Haste build, I find that you still get better results with Icy Veins glyphed versus unglyphed, even though unglyphed lets you spike more Haste (most likely because of Frost's soft Haste cap at 50%)On a sidenote all these factors result in higher Icy Veins uptime for haste build.
Also would like to point out it's hard to emulate raid-like fights on Simcraft, despite its options for heavy movement, etc. Given how the two builds yield such similar numbers in just about any DPS scenario, I personally think that Haste build is slightly favorable for 3 reasons:
1. Easier synergy with Arcane as OS/MS
2. Grants more mobility to the mage
3. Quicker generation and consumption of procs
Also 700 seconds? I can't remember the last time a fight dragged on for over 11 mins
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
Mannoroth and Gorefiend on mythic are pretty long fights, maybe not 11 minutes, but around 8.
Moving to topic, I don't like unglyphed icy veins, for fights you primarly use frost (tyrant, council) you want to use all your cds at the same time with bloodlust (tyrant p2 start, council depending on tactic, but for instance gurthok push) and unglyphed icy veins make you go over haste cap a lot, while glyphed increases your dps when you raid needs it.
I am not talking about overall dps (didnt do much testing here), but raid utility wise I would go for glyphed IV atm.
Moving to topic, I don't like unglyphed icy veins, for fights you primarly use frost (tyrant, council) you want to use all your cds at the same time with bloodlust (tyrant p2 start, council depending on tactic, but for instance gurthok push) and unglyphed icy veins make you go over haste cap a lot, while glyphed increases your dps when you raid needs it.
I am not talking about overall dps (didnt do much testing here), but raid utility wise I would go for glyphed IV atm.
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
As you might see in the input data *ungliphed* option was not considred:unglyphed icy veins make
glyphs=icy_veins/rapid_displacement/splitting_ice
That is for Archimonde mythic. Mannoroth first kill was about this long for my guild too.Also 700 seconds?
What I meant to say was, there's a chance weapon haste enchant can proc right after water jet has just started channeling which might give one extra frostbolt hitting the boss in WJ.Water Jet and Frostbolt scale identically with Haste
I would rather say the opposite. Casting 2sec *ice floes* fireball while running and jumping gives more mobility than casting 0.7sec *ice floes* arcane blast. E.g. with Ice Floes the slower casts you have the more time (in seconds) you can run and jump while casting. Same logic applies to longer GCD on instant spells at lower haste: you can run and jump by 0.1-0.2 sec longer after every ice lance while GCD recharges.2. Grants more mobility to the mage
Finally when I really struggle with mobility as frost I tend to swap tome with PoF and spam lances when I need to move. I find this playstyle apealling to me at Mannoroth
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Breaktheice
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:19 pm
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
^Haste always provides more mobility to the mage, because it lets you sometimes cast a spell right before a boss mechanic lands on the area around/under you, or it lets you complete a cast before moving to do another boss mechanic assigned to you, which means you can pull off casts without even sacrificing an Ice Floes charge.
Also worth noting that with 4 PC, it is actually extremely rare for Frost to run out of Ice Floes charges given how frequently you can Water Jet and have other procs ready for on the move DPS. I've never run out of Ice Floes charges on fights like Manny/Archie/Gorfiend (kiting), etc. as Frost.
The instant cast spell GCD argument is also pointless. Instant cast spells "cast" is the GCD itself. You'll always get more DPS if you have more Haste with insta cast spells.
Ice Lance at 0 Haste > 1.5s GCD
Ice Lance at 50% Haste > 1s GCD
so on the move, at 0 Haste, you can cast 2 Lances over 3 seconds. You can however cast 3 with 50% Haste. The distance you move will be the same (running/jumping); the damage you do while you move is higher with more Haste.
Also worth noting that with 4 PC, it is actually extremely rare for Frost to run out of Ice Floes charges given how frequently you can Water Jet and have other procs ready for on the move DPS. I've never run out of Ice Floes charges on fights like Manny/Archie/Gorfiend (kiting), etc. as Frost.
The instant cast spell GCD argument is also pointless. Instant cast spells "cast" is the GCD itself. You'll always get more DPS if you have more Haste with insta cast spells.
Ice Lance at 0 Haste > 1.5s GCD
Ice Lance at 50% Haste > 1s GCD
so on the move, at 0 Haste, you can cast 2 Lances over 3 seconds. You can however cast 3 with 50% Haste. The distance you move will be the same (running/jumping); the damage you do while you move is higher with more Haste.
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
Not sure if I have to continue arguing.
Like I said: have to move - pop ice floes - the longer cast you channel - the more time in seconds you can run before having to either use instanst casts or another ice floes charge or stop dpsing at all.
Example:
at 0 haste *ice floes* frostbolt + ice lance take 3.5 sec to cast
at 50% haste this will only be 2.3 seconds
So if you have to run for 3 seconds, 50% haste will cause you to use second ice floes charge (if you don't have BF proc)
In realistic environment haste will never vary from 0 to 50%, and with less haste you always gain more multistrike (from gems and enchants). If you go with tome, you'll almost never use 3 ice lances in a row while running. Thus with more haste you'll often have to use one extra ice floes charge.
Using shatterlance may eventually consume all your ice floes charges in P3 mythic Velhari, on mythic Mannoroth and in the last phase of mythic Archimonde.
I totally agree with the idea of "being able to sometimes finish frostbolt before you have to run", but what are you going to do right after that? In order to maintain dpsing you'll have to consume your ice floes charges and procs. And with more haste you'll consume them all up faster which might lead to a situation where you have to spam ice lance or cast blink.
Anyways, I've uploaded my simc data with another purpose: to make sure my results are trustworthy and to possibly get some explanation to why there's no difference in dps between full haste and full mult builds.
Like I said: have to move - pop ice floes - the longer cast you channel - the more time in seconds you can run before having to either use instanst casts or another ice floes charge or stop dpsing at all.
Example:
at 0 haste *ice floes* frostbolt + ice lance take 3.5 sec to cast
at 50% haste this will only be 2.3 seconds
So if you have to run for 3 seconds, 50% haste will cause you to use second ice floes charge (if you don't have BF proc)
In realistic environment haste will never vary from 0 to 50%, and with less haste you always gain more multistrike (from gems and enchants). If you go with tome, you'll almost never use 3 ice lances in a row while running. Thus with more haste you'll often have to use one extra ice floes charge.
Using shatterlance may eventually consume all your ice floes charges in P3 mythic Velhari, on mythic Mannoroth and in the last phase of mythic Archimonde.
I always thought Ice Lance and FFB scale with multistrike much better than with haste (and we're comparing haste vs. mult builds, not just 0 haste vs 50% haste)You'll always get more DPS if you have more Haste with insta cast spells
I totally agree with the idea of "being able to sometimes finish frostbolt before you have to run", but what are you going to do right after that? In order to maintain dpsing you'll have to consume your ice floes charges and procs. And with more haste you'll consume them all up faster which might lead to a situation where you have to spam ice lance or cast blink.
Anyways, I've uploaded my simc data with another purpose: to make sure my results are trustworthy and to possibly get some explanation to why there's no difference in dps between full haste and full mult builds.
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Breaktheice
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:19 pm
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
........ ?Example:
at 0 haste *ice floes* frostbolt + ice lance take 3.5 sec to cast
at 50% haste this will only be 2.3 seconds
So if you have to run for 3 seconds, 50% haste will cause you to use second ice floes charge (if you don't have BF proc)
+ You'll have another Ice Floes charge, and more importantly
+ You can just Blink after the 2.3 seconds and cover more distance than the mage with lower Haste just running (3.3 seconds with Blink thrown in)
Really, there's no way a Haste mage will be less mobile than a non-Haste mage, though you are correct in saying that we are discussing extremes (aka, nobody will be at 0 Haste, and nobody will be at 50% Haste outside a lust). I was just saying that in general, no matter which way you look at it, Haste adds to the mobility of the mage instead of removing it. It's one of the perks of the stat.
Cool, was my point basicallyI totally agree with the idea of "being able to sometimes finish frostbolt before you have to run",
This has been discussed in this topic, the reason Haste build on T18 does well is because it allows for quicker proc generation and consumption, and given how Frost is sometimes overrun with procs, this makes Haste appealing in T18 gear.Anyways, I've uploaded my simc data with another purpose[/b]: to make sure my results are trustworthy and to possibly get some explanation to why there's no difference in dps between full haste and full mult builds.
- LaplaceNoMa
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:26 pm
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
Hello there. Wanted to share a couple of thoughts regarding the default frost profile used in RAID_T18H:
1) The tier legs are 695, for some unfathomable reason.
2) The offset choice is... strange to say the least. I think it's already been proven several million times that archimonde shoulders is the best offset choice there.
Also, I've been checking through various sources for quite some time and still can't find any definite answer. I've checked the top frost mages on the last mythic bosses and it confused me even more.
So, two questions:
1) Enchant. Most top frost mages use Warsong - I'm doing it too and see better numbers than with Frostwolf. However, the simcraft profile uses the Frostwolf enchant.
2) Second trinket. I've been under the impression that Gaze is better than Prophecy, my own live results also seem to favor this decision (comparing 710 and 715 versions respecively, not the mythic ones yet). However, all top frost mage parses have Doom nova - so apparently they're using Prophecy (just the mythic version).
I'd like to hear your opinions on that. Thanks.
1) The tier legs are 695, for some unfathomable reason.
2) The offset choice is... strange to say the least. I think it's already been proven several million times that archimonde shoulders is the best offset choice there.
Also, I've been checking through various sources for quite some time and still can't find any definite answer. I've checked the top frost mages on the last mythic bosses and it confused me even more.
So, two questions:
1) Enchant. Most top frost mages use Warsong - I'm doing it too and see better numbers than with Frostwolf. However, the simcraft profile uses the Frostwolf enchant.
2) Second trinket. I've been under the impression that Gaze is better than Prophecy, my own live results also seem to favor this decision (comparing 710 and 715 versions respecively, not the mythic ones yet). However, all top frost mage parses have Doom nova - so apparently they're using Prophecy (just the mythic version).
I'd like to hear your opinions on that. Thanks.
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
What the....let me fix that.1) The tier legs are 695, for some unfathomable reason.
Is it? Where is this proof? I haven't been keeping up. I guess I could check.2) The offset choice is... strange to say the least. I think it's already been proven several million times that archimonde shoulders is the best offset choice there.
Prophecy claiming all top logs does not particularly surprise me. The top end damage from it is simpler higher.
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
People using PoF could also stem from Mages having supreme priority on it because of Arcane, and other specs having Sethe as their BiS - meaning Mages don't get the mythic one until later on in farm? In addition to PoF having a higher ceiling, that is.
Edit: Typo.
Edit: Typo.
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Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
Just a really quick 10k itérations simc:
For the trinket, yeah UGS is better, but like Rinoa says, mage are the only one on PoF, where more need UGS, and if you are like me and Iskar just don't want to drop your trinket, then you play frost with PoF.
The bigger problem with PoF on frost, is when on a fight like Tyrant MM, the PoF proc on the adds, but you need to stay on the boss because add DPS is not important (except the last one, but then if it proc on the boss, you can't spell the boss
).
PoF is unreliable, while UGS is 100% reliable (it proc too much for the rppm to be a problem)
No.The offset choice is... strange to say the least. I think it's already been proven several million times that archimonde shoulders is the best offset choice there.
The weapon enchant of "top frost mages" have more to do with the fact that you play arcane more than frost, but yeah, warsong is better than frostwolf, not by a big margin but still significant.Enchant. Most top frost mages use Warsong - I'm doing it too and see better numbers than with Frostwolf. However, the simcraft profile uses the Frostwolf enchant.
For the trinket, yeah UGS is better, but like Rinoa says, mage are the only one on PoF, where more need UGS, and if you are like me and Iskar just don't want to drop your trinket, then you play frost with PoF.
The bigger problem with PoF on frost, is when on a fight like Tyrant MM, the PoF proc on the adds, but you need to stay on the boss because add DPS is not important (except the last one, but then if it proc on the boss, you can't spell the boss
).PoF is unreliable, while UGS is 100% reliable (it proc too much for the rppm to be a problem)
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
This may not be the correct place, but I didnt see a general simulationcraft thread. The latest release keeps opening with a red border as if it is out of date, telling me to update to the newest version, which I have. It also pops open a browser window on load that points to
Any ideas why?
Code: Select all
https://bs.serving-sys.com/Serving/ActivityServer.bs?cn=as&ifrm=1&ActivityID=684285&acp=$$region=us$$&appuid=undefined&blzenv=web&rnd=0.2850108065176755Any ideas why?
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
This isn't really the right place for that. Submit an issue to the project directly:
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues" target="_blank
You'll almost certainly need to provide more information than you did though to get the problem solved.
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues" target="_blank
You'll almost certainly need to provide more information than you did though to get the problem solved.
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
Wj & 4Piece & classtrinket:
Basic idea: During WJ you'll cap procc generation after a short time. I.e. you get 1 FFB on cast and probably 1 FFB during WJs duration. You'll get 4 FoF stacks after roughly ~4 casts ~8seconds. You'll need to dump atleast 2 proccs during it. If you dump FFB you can get a new one but you'll miss a global on which you could dump IL. So basically you can see both proccs as just 1 procc and just dump that procc that does more damage. Current apl favors FFB > IL. So I'm going to sim IL > FFB.
Frozen orb and the same stuff:
Basic idea: During frozenorb you'll probably cap with FoF stacks faster than you can dump em with Frostbolt -> Icelance. Maybe dump em without Frostbolt if you get to many.
How to test:
- for gear reasons I prefer to test with a lower level of the legendary ring. I.e. no on use.
- In both cases UM favors FFB because FB and FFB scale better with it. IN has (almost) no impact on scaling of either FB, FFB or IL. Frostbomb favors IL but messes up globals which could be used on frostbolt, pretty sure that it improves IL. => If IL > FFB with UM. Then it should be better with any of those 3 talents. Yay, less to sim.
- I chose TV in every situation. I'm simply not sure if CMS has any uses and PC makes things way to complicated. Furthermore PC could be seen as a 2 target fight for a short period of time with maybe slightly pooling before it and maybe you need to delay frozen orb for it. As I said, it adds hell a lot of complexity, which I don't want to deal with at this very moment.
- I'm just simming 1, 2 and 3 targets. 4 Targets sims use AOE which is probably deprecated, it was added during highmaul with Frostbomb on AoE and probably served its purpose. I.e. Blizzard -> orb reset. I dont want to mess around with AOE caps <-> talents. Furthermore I do ignore the fact, that FFB scales differently with IL on more targets. I.e. at some point FFB + Um procc should outdps IL - well maybe not if you do Frostbomb. (I.e. I do hope that "real" aoe rotation takes over before this will happen)
WJ: Deleted any cast of FFB in this one. As mentioned, just build up proccs during it, use proccs that will cap IL. (Still using cast IL on 3 proccs, for w/e reason - I dont know why this is implemented)
Never use FFB. Once done with WJ the singel target routine should take over and handle proccs accordingly. I.e. use FFBs on stacks = 2 if you dont cap IL. Didnt changed that singel target routine.
Profiles named with andValueIL>FFB have both the WJ changes and the frozen orb changes inside of it. I never simed just waterjet changes without frozen orb changes.
Frozen orb: inside singel target routine.
Delay profiles = &!debuff.water_jet.remains. Not sure if necessary, but I saw some weirdos with Orb during WJ on PC profiles. Safety first. Edit: not sure if that worked out. I.e. frozen orb during pull with WJ
On some profiles I did not use 2 dumprules, instead just dump at 4 charges.
buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<2 <-- this may do harm at some time.
Results without finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_the_allseeing_eye,id=118306,enchant=gift_of_multistrike:
1 target Default APL is roughly ~200 dps behind
2 target Default APL is roughly ~500 dps behind
3 target difference still grows.
Results with legendaryring.
I didnt really looked into it, just resim the stuff with it. I dont understand the impact of that legendary ring to the changes. And personally I will not look into it in the next 4 weeks.
1 target Default APL is roughly ~200 dps behind
2 target Default APL is roughly ~500 dps behind
3 target dont care.
Impact:
Well more dips and simplifying the WJ rotation quite a lot. I'm not sure if FFB can run out during singeltargetroutine from robomage or ingame, but this will mess up some things. Other interesting things would be to see what happens if you dump proccs without weaving during WJ + Frozen orb on opener. To try to keep orb synced with IV.
Edit: Basically I do have a lot more ideas which I would like to sim. But I don't have the time for it.
"Rotation"
I would recommend to just keep BFF proccs during WJ as mentioned above and just spam Frostbolt->IL during it,trying to reach 4 stacks of IL at the end of WJ. After WJ go into handling BFF, IL+weaving proccs.
Use frozen orb after WJ is gone. Just using orb twice instead of 3 times between IVs. During orb just spam out every procc you do have, ignore frostbolt weaving to get your proccs dumped away roughly 1 second before WJ comes of cooldown. Precast WJ and repeat. If you do not have your orb ready, you should do weaving.
It is maybe a little bit easier to understand as a priority list:
Full profile
Pics or it didnt happen - no orange ring. Error ~40, dpsrange 8000.
2 or 3 targets: Error ~50, dpsrange 10000.
Basic idea: During WJ you'll cap procc generation after a short time. I.e. you get 1 FFB on cast and probably 1 FFB during WJs duration. You'll get 4 FoF stacks after roughly ~4 casts ~8seconds. You'll need to dump atleast 2 proccs during it. If you dump FFB you can get a new one but you'll miss a global on which you could dump IL. So basically you can see both proccs as just 1 procc and just dump that procc that does more damage. Current apl favors FFB > IL. So I'm going to sim IL > FFB.
Frozen orb and the same stuff:
Basic idea: During frozenorb you'll probably cap with FoF stacks faster than you can dump em with Frostbolt -> Icelance. Maybe dump em without Frostbolt if you get to many.
How to test:
- for gear reasons I prefer to test with a lower level of the legendary ring. I.e. no on use.
- In both cases UM favors FFB because FB and FFB scale better with it. IN has (almost) no impact on scaling of either FB, FFB or IL. Frostbomb favors IL but messes up globals which could be used on frostbolt, pretty sure that it improves IL. => If IL > FFB with UM. Then it should be better with any of those 3 talents. Yay, less to sim.
- I chose TV in every situation. I'm simply not sure if CMS has any uses and PC makes things way to complicated. Furthermore PC could be seen as a 2 target fight for a short period of time with maybe slightly pooling before it and maybe you need to delay frozen orb for it. As I said, it adds hell a lot of complexity, which I don't want to deal with at this very moment.
- I'm just simming 1, 2 and 3 targets. 4 Targets sims use AOE which is probably deprecated, it was added during highmaul with Frostbomb on AoE and probably served its purpose. I.e. Blizzard -> orb reset. I dont want to mess around with AOE caps <-> talents. Furthermore I do ignore the fact, that FFB scales differently with IL on more targets. I.e. at some point FFB + Um procc should outdps IL - well maybe not if you do Frostbomb. (I.e. I do hope that "real" aoe rotation takes over before this will happen)
WJ: Deleted any cast of FFB in this one. As mentioned, just build up proccs during it, use proccs that will cap IL. (Still using cast IL on 3 proccs, for w/e reason - I dont know why this is implemented)
Never use FFB. Once done with WJ the singel target routine should take over and handle proccs accordingly. I.e. use FFBs on stacks = 2 if you dont cap IL. Didnt changed that singel target routine.
Profiles named with andValueIL>FFB have both the WJ changes and the frozen orb changes inside of it. I never simed just waterjet changes without frozen orb changes.
Code: Select all
# Water Jet sequence
actions.water_jet=frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
Delay profiles = &!debuff.water_jet.remains. Not sure if necessary, but I saw some weirdos with Orb during WJ on PC profiles. Safety first. Edit: not sure if that worked out. I.e. frozen orb during pull with WJ
On some profiles I did not use 2 dumprules, instead just dump at 4 charges.
buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<2 <-- this may do harm at some time.
Code: Select all
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=4&active_dot.frozen_orb&active_enemies=1
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=3&active_dot.frozen_orb&active_enemies>1
actions.single_target+=/frozen_orb,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<2&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>45-20*talent.thermal_void.enabled&!debuff.water_jet.remains
1 target Default APL is roughly ~200 dps behind
2 target Default APL is roughly ~500 dps behind
3 target difference still grows.
Results with legendaryring.
I didnt really looked into it, just resim the stuff with it. I dont understand the impact of that legendary ring to the changes. And personally I will not look into it in the next 4 weeks.
1 target Default APL is roughly ~200 dps behind
2 target Default APL is roughly ~500 dps behind
3 target dont care.
Impact:
Well more dips and simplifying the WJ rotation quite a lot. I'm not sure if FFB can run out during singeltargetroutine from robomage or ingame, but this will mess up some things. Other interesting things would be to see what happens if you dump proccs without weaving during WJ + Frozen orb on opener. To try to keep orb synced with IV.
Edit: Basically I do have a lot more ideas which I would like to sim. But I don't have the time for it.
"Rotation"
I would recommend to just keep BFF proccs during WJ as mentioned above and just spam Frostbolt->IL during it,trying to reach 4 stacks of IL at the end of WJ. After WJ go into handling BFF, IL+weaving proccs.
Use frozen orb after WJ is gone. Just using orb twice instead of 3 times between IVs. During orb just spam out every procc you do have, ignore frostbolt weaving to get your proccs dumped away roughly 1 second before WJ comes of cooldown. Precast WJ and repeat. If you do not have your orb ready, you should do weaving.
It is maybe a little bit easier to understand as a priority list:
- 1. Waterjet with frostbolt weaving, finish with 3+ FoF proccs. Keep the amount of FoFs a little bit lower if your orb will hit a lot of targets. Do not use FFBs here. IV here, too.
- 2. orb after WJ: mostly just spam instants, finish off all your proccs before PC runs out OR Waterjet is ready, use FFBs here. Here is where you want to use PC and just spam all instants on it. Depending on proccs you may need to do 1x / 2x frostbolt weaving on PC if your frozen Orb doesnt want to procc any FoF. But mostly just spam instants.
- 3. Waterjet with frostbolt weaving, finish with 4 FoF proccs. Do not use FFBs here.
- 4. No orb ready, stick with frostbolt weaving, finish proccs for next Waterjet, which should be 1. again. Do use FFBs here.
- Repeat. Maybe you need to delay an orb for PC. It may be worth to keep some FoF charges before going into a new Waterjet, to do more weaving with it. You definitly want to use WJ on cooldown and try to get rid of every FFB when waterjet is down. PC / Orb may change slightly depending on when you do use nithramus.
Full profile
Spoiler:
2 or 3 targets: Error ~50, dpsrange 10000.
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
With 2100 haste (coming from arcane) and ring 765 ill loose 400 DPS using your changings.
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
Would like to see the profile. Interested in Gear & Talents. And yeah, there may be a little issue with haste.With 2100 haste (coming from arcane) and ring 765 ill loose 400 DPS using your changings.
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/d ... i/advanced" target="_blank
But as said before: Im full haste enchanted due to being arcane/frost and i also like haste as frost more because of the faster castingflow. But this is a personal preference.
In the end 400 dps more or less at 80k base are like 0.5% and in my opinion skill is here far more important so if your rotation is simpler it may have its place.
But as said before: Im full haste enchanted due to being arcane/frost and i also like haste as frost more because of the faster castingflow. But this is a personal preference.
In the end 400 dps more or less at 80k base are like 0.5% and in my opinion skill is here far more important so if your rotation is simpler it may have its place.
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
There is a little pooling issue with Robomage. In general I want to tell robomage to do the following.
During Waterjet - disregarding FFB here:
- get up to X charges of FoF and do Frostbolt -> Icelance weaving. (i.e. go to 3 charges)
- Go up to Y charges of FoF before the end of Waterjet (i.e. finish with 4 charges of FoF)
Well, current APL:
What robomage does:
Precast Frostbolt -> waterjet (this is handled somewhere else)
Frostbolt (due to actions.water_jet=frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet)
the next actions in Waterjet are skipped, because 0/1 frostbolts have hit the boss = 0/1 charges. And less or equal FFB charges than FoFs. Robomage jumps into the singel target routine and mostly does either Frozen Orb OR ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&buff.shatterlance.up.
Basically he does:
During Waterjet - disregarding FFB here:
- get up to 2 charges of FoF and do Frostbolt -> Icelance weaving.
- Go up to 2 charges of FoF before the end of Waterjet
Trying to rewrite the waterjet APL to fix that, I mostly end up getting to much FoF stacks on robomage. Playing around with waterjets duration I may reach an APL that fits what I want it to do, but it will get more and more complicated and horrible to read. But I even doubt that one, it looks like that the traveltime and or reaction time of robomage is maybe a little to high. There are probably 2 Frostbolts inflight. (Just a guess, I'm a little bit lazy here)
What I actually want to tell robomage is roughly this:
During waterjet - disregarding FFB here:
- 2x frostbolts -> into icelance. Basically get up to 2 safe charges - and if you're lucky you'll have 4 now.
- do 1 or 2 frostbolts -> into icelance. basically get up to 3 safe charges - and if you*re lucky you'll have 4 now. Minimize the amounts of frostbolts you'll cast in a chain. I dont want to do 3x frostbolt -> Icelance.
- stay on 3 charges
- maybe go up to 4 charges on every waterjet that isnt followed by frozing orb.
Does it matter ingame?
Well, I would like to see the difference between pooling 4 charges on FoF before the end of WJ and staying on 3 charges. But otherwise no.
Edit: List of things that I actually would love to test / verify in simcraft with frost:
- Weave or no Weave on PC - this is interesting. I.e. If I do weave on PC, I'll have some FoF stacks left over for the next Waterjet. It may be possible to start the second WJ with 2 FoF charges and just weave literally the whole time. This is probably just a tradeoff between "burst now" <-> "do weave". Probably on singel target = burst now. On 2+ targets do weave.
- Delay of frozen orb with PC - may be not necessary, if doing weave rotation on PC anyway, but I doubt that one.
- pooling of 4 FoF charges at the end of Waterjet. This actually can be easily mathed out on paper.
Btw. there is actually a problem with TOME. I.e. with a low level tome (normal version of it) using FFB during Waterjet results in a little dps gain on singeltarget.
P.S. forgot to turn the "on use" of your ring on in that sim. But it doesnt change anything relevant.
http://www51.zippyshare.com/v/eTYX0Bkd/file.html" target="_blank
During Waterjet - disregarding FFB here:
- get up to X charges of FoF and do Frostbolt -> Icelance weaving. (i.e. go to 3 charges)
- Go up to Y charges of FoF before the end of Waterjet (i.e. finish with 4 charges of FoF)
Well, current APL:
# Water Jet sequence
actions.water_jet=frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/frostfire_bolt,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.brain_freeze.react=2
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
What robomage does:
Precast Frostbolt -> waterjet (this is handled somewhere else)
Frostbolt (due to actions.water_jet=frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet)
the next actions in Waterjet are skipped, because 0/1 frostbolts have hit the boss = 0/1 charges. And less or equal FFB charges than FoFs. Robomage jumps into the singel target routine and mostly does either Frozen Orb OR ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&buff.shatterlance.up.
Basically he does:
During Waterjet - disregarding FFB here:
- get up to 2 charges of FoF and do Frostbolt -> Icelance weaving.
- Go up to 2 charges of FoF before the end of Waterjet
Trying to rewrite the waterjet APL to fix that, I mostly end up getting to much FoF stacks on robomage. Playing around with waterjets duration I may reach an APL that fits what I want it to do, but it will get more and more complicated and horrible to read. But I even doubt that one, it looks like that the traveltime and or reaction time of robomage is maybe a little to high. There are probably 2 Frostbolts inflight. (Just a guess, I'm a little bit lazy here)
What I actually want to tell robomage is roughly this:
During waterjet - disregarding FFB here:
- 2x frostbolts -> into icelance. Basically get up to 2 safe charges - and if you're lucky you'll have 4 now.
- do 1 or 2 frostbolts -> into icelance. basically get up to 3 safe charges - and if you*re lucky you'll have 4 now. Minimize the amounts of frostbolts you'll cast in a chain. I dont want to do 3x frostbolt -> Icelance.
- stay on 3 charges
- maybe go up to 4 charges on every waterjet that isnt followed by frozing orb.
Does it matter ingame?
Well, I would like to see the difference between pooling 4 charges on FoF before the end of WJ and staying on 3 charges. But otherwise no.
Edit: List of things that I actually would love to test / verify in simcraft with frost:
- Weave or no Weave on PC - this is interesting. I.e. If I do weave on PC, I'll have some FoF stacks left over for the next Waterjet. It may be possible to start the second WJ with 2 FoF charges and just weave literally the whole time. This is probably just a tradeoff between "burst now" <-> "do weave". Probably on singel target = burst now. On 2+ targets do weave.
- Delay of frozen orb with PC - may be not necessary, if doing weave rotation on PC anyway, but I doubt that one.
- pooling of 4 FoF charges at the end of Waterjet. This actually can be easily mathed out on paper.
Personally, I do hate haste because it sucks with Ice Nova on any kind of bursty AoE. Prefer Arcane with multistrike. But this isn't something I do want to discuss here. I've tried to reproduce your results with your profile but I'm unable to reach those. Results and profile link on the bottom of this post. FYI: I changed your talents to Unstable Magic / Rune of Power / TV. (actually just changed IF -> ROP). I dislike having to deal with IF.http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/d ... i/advanced
But as said before: Im full haste enchanted due to being arcane/frost and i also like haste as frost more because of the faster castingflow. But this is a personal preference.
Btw. there is actually a problem with TOME. I.e. with a low level tome (normal version of it) using FFB during Waterjet results in a little dps gain on singeltarget.
P.S. forgot to turn the "on use" of your ring on in that sim. But it doesnt change anything relevant.
http://www51.zippyshare.com/v/eTYX0Bkd/file.html" target="_blank
Code: Select all
# Profile will be downloaded into a new tab.
#
# Clicking Simulate will create a simc_gui.simc profile for review.
# Profile will be downloaded into a new tab.
#
# Clicking Simulate will create a simc_gui.simc profile for review.
mage="Mage_Frost_T18M"
level=100
race=dwarf
role=spell
position=back
talents=http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#eb!2200110
glyphs=icy_veins/splitting_ice/cone_of_cold
spec=frost
# This default action priority list is automatically created based on your character.
# It is a attempt to provide you with a action list that is both simple and practicable,
# while resulting in a meaningful and good simulation. It may not result in the absolutely highest possible dps.
# Feel free to edit, adapt and improve it to your own needs.
# SimulationCraft is always looking for updates and improvements to the default action lists.
# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.
actions.precombat=flask,type=greater_draenic_intellect_flask
actions.precombat+=/food,type=salty_squid_roll
actions.precombat+=/arcane_brilliance
actions.precombat+=/water_elemental
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/rune_of_power
actions.precombat+=/mirror_image
actions.precombat+=/potion,name=draenic_intellect
actions.precombat+=/frostbolt,if=!talent.frost_bomb.enabled
actions.precombat+=/frost_bomb
# Executed every time the actor is available.
actions=counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react
actions+=/time_warp,if=target.health.pct<25|time>5
actions+=/call_action_list,name=movement,if=raid_event.movement.exists
actions+=/mirror_image
actions+=/rune_of_power,if=buff.rune_of_power.remains<cast_time
actions+=/rune_of_power,if=(cooldown.icy_veins.remains<gcd.max&buff.rune_of_power.remains<20)|(cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains<gcd.max&buff.rune_of_power.remains<10)
actions+=/call_action_list,name=cooldowns,if=target.time_to_die<24
actions+=/call_action_list,name=crystal_sequence,if=talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled&(cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains<=gcd.max|pet.prismatic_crystal.active)
actions+=/call_action_list,name=water_jet,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet|debuff.water_jet.remains>0
# Water jet on pull for non PC talent combos
actions+=/water_jet,if=time<1&active_enemies<4&!(talent.ice_nova.enabled&talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled)
actions+=/call_action_list,name=aoe,if=active_enemies>=4
actions+=/call_action_list,name=single_target
actions.movement=blink,if=movement.distance>10
actions.movement+=/blazing_speed,if=movement.remains>0
actions.movement+=/ice_floes,if=buff.ice_floes.down&(raid_event.movement.distance>0|raid_event.movement.in<action.frostbolt.cast_time)
# Actions while Prismatic Crystal is active
actions.crystal_sequence=frost_bomb,if=active_enemies=1¤t_target!=pet.prismatic_crystal&remains<10
actions.crystal_sequence+=/frozen_orb,target_if=max:target.time_to_die&target!=pet.prismatic_crystal
actions.crystal_sequence+=/prismatic_crystal
actions.crystal_sequence+=/call_action_list,name=cooldowns
actions.crystal_sequence+=/frost_bomb,if=talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled¤t_target=pet.prismatic_crystal&active_enemies>1&!ticking
actions.crystal_sequence+=/ice_lance,if=!t18_class_trinket&(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+set_bonus.tier18_4pc*2|(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>set_bonus.tier18_4pc*2&active_dot.frozen_orb))
actions.crystal_sequence+=/water_jet,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>(5+10*set_bonus.tier18_4pc)*spell_haste*0.8
actions.crystal_sequence+=/ice_nova,if=charges=2|pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<4
actions.crystal_sequence+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.crystal_sequence+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.brain_freeze.react=2
actions.crystal_sequence+=/frostbolt,target_if=max:debuff.water_jet.remains,if=t18_class_trinket&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up&pet.prismatic_crystal.remains>cast_time
actions.crystal_sequence+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react
actions.crystal_sequence+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.brain_freeze.react
actions.crystal_sequence+=/ice_nova
actions.crystal_sequence+=/blizzard,interrupt_if=cooldown.frozen_orb.up|(talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+set_bonus.tier18_4pc),if=active_enemies>=5
actions.crystal_sequence+=/choose_target,if=pet.prismatic_crystal.remains<action.frostbolt.cast_time+action.frostbolt.travel_time
actions.crystal_sequence+=/frostbolt
# Consolidated damage cooldown abilities
actions.cooldowns=icy_veins
actions.cooldowns+=/blood_fury
actions.cooldowns+=/berserking
actions.cooldowns+=/arcane_torrent
actions.cooldowns+=/potion,name=draenic_intellect,if=buff.bloodlust.up|buff.icy_veins.up
# Water Jet initialization
actions.init_water_jet=frost_bomb,if=remains<4*spell_haste*(1+set_bonus.tier18_4pc)+cast_time
actions.init_water_jet+=/water_jet,if=prev_gcd.frostbolt|action.frostbolt.travel_time<spell_haste
actions.init_water_jet+=/frostbolt
# Water Jet sequence
actions.water_jet=frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/frostfire_bolt,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.brain_freeze.react=2
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=!t18_class_trinket&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&action.frostbolt.in_flight
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time
# AoE sequence
actions.aoe=call_action_list,name=cooldowns
actions.aoe+=/frost_bomb,if=remains<action.ice_lance.travel_time&(cooldown.frozen_orb.remains<gcd.max|buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2)
actions.aoe+=/frozen_orb
actions.aoe+=/ice_lance,if=talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&debuff.frost_bomb.up
actions.aoe+=/comet_storm
actions.aoe+=/ice_nova
actions.aoe+=/blizzard,interrupt_if=cooldown.frozen_orb.up|(talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2)
# Single target sequence
actions.single_target=call_action_list,name=cooldowns,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains>15
# Safeguards against losing FoF and BF to buff expiry
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<action.frostbolt.execute_time|buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<buff.fingers_of_frost.react*gcd.max)
actions.single_target+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&(buff.brain_freeze.remains<action.frostbolt.execute_time|buff.brain_freeze.remains<buff.brain_freeze.react*gcd.max)
# Frozen Orb usage without Prismatic Crystal
actions.single_target+=/frost_bomb,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled&cooldown.frozen_orb.remains<gcd.max&debuff.frost_bomb.remains<10
actions.single_target+=/frozen_orb,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<2&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>45-20*talent.thermal_void.enabled
# Single target routine; Rough summary: IN2 > FoF2 > CmS > IN > BF > FoF
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.single_target+=/frost_bomb,if=remains<action.ice_lance.travel_time+t18_class_trinket*action.frostbolt.execute_time&(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=(2+set_bonus.tier18_4pc*2)%(1+t18_class_trinket)|(buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(talent.thermal_void.enabled|buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<gcd.max*(buff.fingers_of_frost.react+1))))
actions.single_target+=/ice_nova,if=target.time_to_die<10|(charges=2&(!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|!cooldown.prismatic_crystal.up))
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=!t18_class_trinket&(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+set_bonus.tier18_4pc*2|(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>1+set_bonus.tier18_4pc&active_dot.frozen_orb))
actions.single_target+=/comet_storm
actions.single_target+=/ice_nova,if=(!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|(charges=1&cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains>recharge_time&(buff.incanters_flow.stack>3|!talent.ice_nova.enabled)))&(buff.icy_veins.up|(charges=1&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>recharge_time))
actions.single_target+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.brain_freeze.react
actions.single_target+=/call_action_list,name=init_water_jet,if=pet.water_elemental.cooldown.water_jet.remains<=gcd.max*talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react<2+2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&!active_dot.frozen_orb
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&debuff.frost_bomb.remains>travel_time&(!talent.thermal_void.enabled|cooldown.icy_veins.remains>8)
# Camp procs and spam Frostbolt while 4T17 buff is up
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt,if=set_bonus.tier17_2pc&buff.ice_shard.up&!(talent.thermal_void.enabled&buff.icy_veins.up&buff.icy_veins.remains<10)
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=!talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(!talent.thermal_void.enabled|cooldown.icy_veins.remains>8)
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,moving=1
head=countenance_of_the_revenant,id=124158,bonus_id=567
neck=choker_of_forbidden_indulgence,id=124391,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_multistrike
shoulders=mantle_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124177,bonus_id=567
back=cloak_of_hideous_unity,id=124138,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_multistrike
chest=robe_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124171,bonus_id=567
wrists=powdersinged_bracers,id=124183,bonus_id=567
hands=gloves_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124154,bonus_id=567
waist=demonbuckle_sash_of_argus,id=124200,bonus_id=567
legs=pantaloons_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124165,bonus_id=567
feet=bloody_daggerheeled_pumps,id=124149,bonus_id=567
finger1=loathful_encrusted_band,id=124192,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_multistrike
finger2=spellbound_runic_band_of_the_allseeing_eye,id=118306,enchant=gift_of_multistrike
trinket1=tome_of_shifting_words,id=124516,bonus_id=567
trinket2=unblinking_gaze_of_sethe,id=124229,bonus_id=567
main_hand=edict_of_argus,id=124382,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_the_frostwolf
# Gear Summary
# gear_ilvl=728.67
# gear_stamina=6163
# gear_intellect=4610
# gear_spell_power=2545
# gear_crit_rating=654
# gear_haste_rating=1585
# gear_mastery_rating=1344
# gear_multistrike_rating=1870
# gear_versatility_rating=278
# gear_armor=1106
# set_bonus=tier18_2pc=1
# set_bonus=tier18_4pc=1
#############
#Basically you can overwrite all basic settings like gear beyond this line. Any gear / w/e above will get overwriten and used for any profile below that starts with copy.
#############
head=cowl_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124160,bonus_id=564/566,gems=50haste
neck=choker_of_forbidden_indulgence,id=124391,bonus_id=566,enchant=75haste
shoulders=mantle_of_the_eredar_lord,id=124176,bonus_id=566
back=cloak_of_hideous_unity,id=124138,bonus_id=42/566,enchant=gift_of_haste
chest=robe_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124171,bonus_id=561/566
shirt=wraps_of_the_bloodsoaked_brawler,id=98543
wrists=hexweave_bracers,id=114814,bonus_id=179/538/618
hands=gloves_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124154,bonus_id=561/566
waist=hexweave_belt,id=114816,bonus_id=135/537/618
legs=pantaloons_of_the_arcanic_conclave,id=124165,bonus_id=41/566
feet=dessicated_soulrender_slippers,id=124150,bonus_id=566
finger1=loathful_encrusted_band,id=124192,bonus_id=564/566,gems=75haste,enchant=50haste
finger2=nithramus_the_allseer,id=124635,bonus_id=631/649,enchant=50haste
trinket1=unblinking_gaze_of_sethe,id=124229,bonus_id=566
trinket2=tome_of_shifting_words,id=124516,bonus_id=566
main_hand=edict_of_argus,id=124382,bonus_id=563,gems=50haste,enchant=mark_of_warsong
professions=engineering=700/tailoring=700
talents=http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#eb!2200110
glyphs=splitting_ice/rapid_displacement/icy_veins/illusion/evaporation/rapid_teleportation
spec=frost
#############
copy="dontCapIlonOrb_delayOrb"
# Single target sequence
actions.single_target=call_action_list,name=cooldowns,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains>15
# Safeguards against losing FoF and BF to buff expiry
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<action.frostbolt.execute_time|buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<buff.fingers_of_frost.react*gcd.max)
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=4&active_dot.frozen_orb&active_enemies=1
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=3&active_dot.frozen_orb&active_enemies>1
actions.single_target+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&(buff.brain_freeze.remains<action.frostbolt.execute_time|buff.brain_freeze.remains<buff.brain_freeze.react*gcd.max)
# Frozen Orb usage without Prismatic Crystal
actions.single_target+=/frost_bomb,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled&cooldown.frozen_orb.remains<gcd.max&debuff.frost_bomb.remains<10
actions.single_target+=/frozen_orb,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<2&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>45-20*talent.thermal_void.enabled&!debuff.water_jet.remains
# Single target routine; Rough summary: IN2 > FoF2 > CmS > IN > BF > FoF
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.single_target+=/frost_bomb,if=remains<action.ice_lance.travel_time+t18_class_trinket*action.frostbolt.execute_time&(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=(2+set_bonus.tier18_4pc*2)%(1+t18_class_trinket)|(buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(talent.thermal_void.enabled|buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<gcd.max*(buff.fingers_of_frost.react+1))))
actions.single_target+=/ice_nova,if=target.time_to_die<10|(charges=2&(!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|!cooldown.prismatic_crystal.up))
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=!t18_class_trinket&(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+set_bonus.tier18_4pc*2|(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>1+set_bonus.tier18_4pc&active_dot.frozen_orb))
actions.single_target+=/comet_storm
actions.single_target+=/ice_nova,if=(!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|(charges=1&cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains>recharge_time&(buff.incanters_flow.stack>3|!talent.ice_nova.enabled)))&(buff.icy_veins.up|(charges=1&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>recharge_time))
actions.single_target+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.brain_freeze.react
actions.single_target+=/call_action_list,name=init_water_jet,if=pet.water_elemental.cooldown.water_jet.remains<=gcd.max*talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react<2+2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&!active_dot.frozen_orb
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&debuff.frost_bomb.remains>travel_time&(!talent.thermal_void.enabled|cooldown.icy_veins.remains>8)
# Camp procs and spam Frostbolt while 4T17 buff is up
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt,if=set_bonus.tier17_2pc&buff.ice_shard.up&!(talent.thermal_void.enabled&buff.icy_veins.up&buff.icy_veins.remains<10)
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=!talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(!talent.thermal_void.enabled|cooldown.icy_veins.remains>8)
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,moving=1
copy="andValueIL>FFB_delayOrb"
#probably no good on 1target
# Water Jet sequence
actions.water_jet=frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=!t18_class_trinket&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&action.frostbolt.in_flight
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time
copy="dontCapIlonOrb"
# Water Jet sequence
actions.water_jet=frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/frostfire_bolt,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.brain_freeze.react=2
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=!t18_class_trinket&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&action.frostbolt.in_flight
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time
# Single target sequence
actions.single_target=call_action_list,name=cooldowns,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains>15
# Safeguards against losing FoF and BF to buff expiry
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<action.frostbolt.execute_time|buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<buff.fingers_of_frost.react*gcd.max)
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=4&active_dot.frozen_orb&active_enemies=1
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=3&active_dot.frozen_orb&active_enemies>1
actions.single_target+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&(buff.brain_freeze.remains<action.frostbolt.execute_time|buff.brain_freeze.remains<buff.brain_freeze.react*gcd.max)
# Frozen Orb usage without Prismatic Crystal
actions.single_target+=/frost_bomb,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled&cooldown.frozen_orb.remains<gcd.max&debuff.frost_bomb.remains<10
actions.single_target+=/frozen_orb,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<2&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>45-20*talent.thermal_void.enabled
# Single target routine; Rough summary: IN2 > FoF2 > CmS > IN > BF > FoF
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.single_target+=/frost_bomb,if=remains<action.ice_lance.travel_time+t18_class_trinket*action.frostbolt.execute_time&(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=(2+set_bonus.tier18_4pc*2)%(1+t18_class_trinket)|(buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(talent.thermal_void.enabled|buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<gcd.max*(buff.fingers_of_frost.react+1))))
actions.single_target+=/ice_nova,if=target.time_to_die<10|(charges=2&(!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|!cooldown.prismatic_crystal.up))
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=!t18_class_trinket&(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+set_bonus.tier18_4pc*2|(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>1+set_bonus.tier18_4pc&active_dot.frozen_orb))
actions.single_target+=/comet_storm
actions.single_target+=/ice_nova,if=(!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|(charges=1&cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains>recharge_time&(buff.incanters_flow.stack>3|!talent.ice_nova.enabled)))&(buff.icy_veins.up|(charges=1&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>recharge_time))
actions.single_target+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.brain_freeze.react
actions.single_target+=/call_action_list,name=init_water_jet,if=pet.water_elemental.cooldown.water_jet.remains<=gcd.max*talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react<2+2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&!active_dot.frozen_orb
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&debuff.frost_bomb.remains>travel_time&(!talent.thermal_void.enabled|cooldown.icy_veins.remains>8)
# Camp procs and spam Frostbolt while 4T17 buff is up
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt,if=set_bonus.tier17_2pc&buff.ice_shard.up&!(talent.thermal_void.enabled&buff.icy_veins.up&buff.icy_veins.remains<10)
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=!talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(!talent.thermal_void.enabled|cooldown.icy_veins.remains>8)
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,moving=1
copy="andValueIL>FFB"
#probably no good on 1target
# Water Jet sequence
actions.water_jet=frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=!t18_class_trinket&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&action.frostbolt.in_flight
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time
copy="dontCapIlonOrb_delayOrb_1dumprule"
# Water Jet sequence
actions.water_jet=frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/frostfire_bolt,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.brain_freeze.react=2
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=!t18_class_trinket&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&action.frostbolt.in_flight
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time
# Single target sequence
actions.single_target=call_action_list,name=cooldowns,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains>15
# Safeguards against losing FoF and BF to buff expiry
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<action.frostbolt.execute_time|buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<buff.fingers_of_frost.react*gcd.max)
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react=4&active_dot.frozen_orb
actions.single_target+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&(buff.brain_freeze.remains<action.frostbolt.execute_time|buff.brain_freeze.remains<buff.brain_freeze.react*gcd.max)
# Frozen Orb usage without Prismatic Crystal
actions.single_target+=/frost_bomb,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled&cooldown.frozen_orb.remains<gcd.max&debuff.frost_bomb.remains<10
actions.single_target+=/frozen_orb,if=!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.stack<2&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>45-20*talent.thermal_void.enabled&!debuff.water_jet.remains
# Single target routine; Rough summary: IN2 > FoF2 > CmS > IN > BF > FoF
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.single_target+=/frost_bomb,if=remains<action.ice_lance.travel_time+t18_class_trinket*action.frostbolt.execute_time&(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=(2+set_bonus.tier18_4pc*2)%(1+t18_class_trinket)|(buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(talent.thermal_void.enabled|buff.fingers_of_frost.remains<gcd.max*(buff.fingers_of_frost.react+1))))
actions.single_target+=/ice_nova,if=target.time_to_die<10|(charges=2&(!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|!cooldown.prismatic_crystal.up))
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=!t18_class_trinket&(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+set_bonus.tier18_4pc*2|(buff.fingers_of_frost.react>1+set_bonus.tier18_4pc&active_dot.frozen_orb))
actions.single_target+=/comet_storm
actions.single_target+=/ice_nova,if=(!talent.prismatic_crystal.enabled|(charges=1&cooldown.prismatic_crystal.remains>recharge_time&(buff.incanters_flow.stack>3|!talent.ice_nova.enabled)))&(buff.icy_veins.up|(charges=1&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>recharge_time))
actions.single_target+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.brain_freeze.react
actions.single_target+=/call_action_list,name=init_water_jet,if=pet.water_elemental.cooldown.water_jet.remains<=gcd.max*talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react<2+2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&!active_dot.frozen_orb
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&debuff.frost_bomb.remains>travel_time&(!talent.thermal_void.enabled|cooldown.icy_veins.remains>8)
# Camp procs and spam Frostbolt while 4T17 buff is up
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt,if=set_bonus.tier17_2pc&buff.ice_shard.up&!(talent.thermal_void.enabled&buff.icy_veins.up&buff.icy_veins.remains<10)
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,if=!talent.frost_bomb.enabled&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&(!talent.thermal_void.enabled|cooldown.icy_veins.remains>8)
actions.single_target+=/frostbolt
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,moving=1
copy="andValueIL>FFB_delayOrb_1dumprule"
#probably no good on 1target
# Water Jet sequence
actions.water_jet=frostbolt,if=prev_off_gcd.water_jet
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=t18_class_trinket&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_time&buff.fingers_of_frost.react&!buff.shatterlance.up
actions.water_jet+=/ice_lance,if=!t18_class_trinket&buff.fingers_of_frost.react>=2+2*set_bonus.tier18_4pc&action.frostbolt.in_flight
actions.water_jet+=/frostbolt,if=!set_bonus.tier18_4pc&debuff.water_jet.remains>cast_time+travel_timeRe: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
I can 99.9% guarantee there are not 2 frostbolts in flight at the same time. Robomage reaction time is up to you - we normally use .react in places to respond to procs to add in react time. If you're using .stack, he's responding instantly to procs.
If you want to be sure, debug=1 output=name.txt, sift through the output to see frostbolt information. It's ugly, but will tell you what is going on. Doubt 2 are traveling at once though.
If you want to be sure, debug=1 output=name.txt, sift through the output to see frostbolt information. It's ugly, but will tell you what is going on. Doubt 2 are traveling at once though.
Re: [SimC] WoD Frost SimC Disucssion
I think there probably are 2 Frostbolts in flight at the same time. At 40 yards, the travel time is ~1.429 seconds, so it should happen quite frequently.I can 99.9% guarantee there are not 2 frostbolts in flight at the same time. Robomage reaction time is up to you - we normally use .react in places to respond to procs to add in react time. If you're using .stack, he's responding instantly to procs.
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