Fire Mages are alive again (Updated for 6.2.3)

[Wilderness]

Fire was always decent (#7 or so) in hfc. It just doesnt look that way, when the other 2 specs are even better. oh and ofc the bad focus target dps makes it undesireable in progress.

I'd love to see some numbers on the top 7 figure you used. All I've seen this tier is how terrible fire is, specifically when dealing with single target...


Edit: Not being combative, I love fire and would be super excited to play it as my guild starts the top floor of mythic HFC

It was never terrible relative to all other specs as a whole. I don't have the original simcraft numbers available, but it was somewhere in the high end of the middle of the pack. 7 or 8 sounds about right. But its been called terrible all tier because both other specs were better on single target, and because HFC was primarily about focused add dps which Fire isn't great for. You could always put up decent numbers as Fire in HFC on most fights, but a lot of its damage isn't useful for progression at all.

[Curnivore]

And some players prefer not changing tactics after progression to retain stability of their team setup.

[Seatoo]

Fire was always decent (#7 or so) in hfc. It just doesnt look that way, when the other 2 specs are even better. oh and ofc the bad focus target dps makes it undesireable in progress.

I'd love to see some numbers on the top 7 figure you used. All I've seen this tier is how terrible fire is, specifically when dealing with single target...


Edit: Not being combative, I love fire and would be super excited to play it as my guild starts the top floor of mythic HFC

It was never terrible relative to all other specs as a whole. I don't have the original simcraft numbers available, but it was somewhere in the high end of the middle of the pack. 7 or 8 sounds about right. But its been called terrible all tier because both other specs were better on single target, and because HFC was primarily about focused add dps which Fire isn't great for. You could always put up decent numbers as Fire in HFC on most fights, but a lot of its damage isn't useful for progression at all.

Ok that's good to know. The sims etc I've seen had fire bottom 10 or so. Maybe time to switch for farm content =D

[Zayele]

Also simcraft has fire mages top 5 single target =O

That list looks horrifically inaccurate, haha. In any case, Fire is a top ST spec, and has been for a while now.

Uhhh what? Fire has been universally panned in HFC until recently, please elaborate

It depends on what you mean by recently. In my post, I was thinking of September-Octoberish, and I think that might have caused the confusion.

On another note, how good would the 720 (upgraded to 730) version of Bonemaw's Big Toe be compared to Sandman's or GSR?

[Chill666]

On another note, how good would the 720 (upgraded to 730) version of Bonemaw's Big Toe be compared to Sandman's or GSR?

imo bad

Bonemaw(upgraded to 730) 2 min cd on use. 2687 crit
Sandman(stage 6) 115 sec cd 15% chance to trigger 3080 crit AND 385 Int

[Allanon]

The on use makes a huge difference though. It means you can pop ur crit trinket right at pull when the ring gets used! And mid-fight on use is even more important so you can line up ur trinket with delayed rings or adds.

[Curnivore]

I've read claims that SP is extremely reliable because it's not RPPM based but with a common internal cooldown. I haven't played the spec/trinket though to be sure. One can say though that not all fights are Patchwerk.

[Chill666]

The on use makes a huge difference though. It means you can pop ur crit trinket right at pull when the ring gets used! And mid-fight on use is even more important so you can line up ur trinket with delayed rings or adds.

Depends on what bosses you play fire and what your strats are
Most of the time Ring get used on CD.
1.Assault) dont really care
2. Reaver) on CD
3.Kormrok) propably on CD
4.Council) depends on strat. For my guild its first two on CD and thirg when we burn darkwhisper
5.Kilrogg) depends on strat. for my guild we use ring on pull and when the second group goes down which lines up with sandmans
6. gorefiend). i think on progress you really dont want to play fire here but if you want. Ring on Pull and 1. feast so it lines up with sandmans. Third feast isnt lined up
7.iskar) Start attacking just seconds before the adds spawn and you can allign your sandman with ring
8.Zakuun) ring could be delayed for the last phase so just 1 out of 2 with sandman. But i could also be used on CD
9. Socrethar) dont dps the construct and you should be able to allign Sandman for every dominator phase(where we use the ring)
10. Velhari) We're progressing here right now but the first two rings are on CD and the thirg gets delayed a little but(~10 sec) so stop dps a bit before thirg ring to line up
11/12/13. Dont know, not progressed at them right now

So most of the time if not always its better to use sandman because it lines up and gives int. It, of course, depends on strats. But i dont thing the on use lign up would be better than the bonus int

[Allanon]

Well even if you Ring at pull, you will waste some time getting ur sandman's pouch to proc, if you could just pop ur crit trinket right at pull, that makes a huge difference. I am having ring explosions between 1mil and 4-5mil depending on when the trinket procs and the fight of course.

So considering that a huge junk of your overall damage comes from bursting in the 15 seconds the ring is up and the explosion, I am not sure if that int you are missing is making up for it. Having a crit on use trinket also takes away lots of rng.

Not saying that the on use trinket is better than sandman's, but to say it is bad, is an understatement in my opinion.

[Merlinuz]

wow i am sorry about re-questioning about the mechanic about combustion.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VP ... slate=true" target="_blank

As same level of gearing, and some kind of rotation in running combustion, i found I am going maximum around 45K combustion but this mage average around 135K, so I am wondering for burst, is that fireball>pyroblast>f>p>p>p>combustion>DB>blastwave>DB>Blastwave?
and for not Bloodlust period f>P>P>P>combustion>DB>BW>BW ?

I cant believe rng factor can have such huge difference, for combustion 45K~60K to my understandings.

Also it is weird for alter time not discussing fire mage as it become the trend, for chinese forum like NGA it is quite general discussed.

[yungg]

"average 135k" is including crit/multistrike ticks. if your average 45k combustion is including crit ticks and not just the non-crit value, then that's abnormally low.

[Allanon]

wow i am sorry about re-questioning about the mechanic about combustion.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VP ... slate=true" target="_blank

As same level of gearing, and some kind of rotation in running combustion, i found I am going maximum around 45K combustion but this mage average around 135K, so I am wondering for burst, is that fireball>pyroblast>f>p>p>p>combustion>DB>blastwave>DB>Blastwave?
and for not Bloodlust period f>P>P>P>combustion>DB>BW>BW ?

I cant believe rng factor can have such huge difference, for combustion 45K~60K to my understandings.

Also it is weird for alter time not discussing fire mage as it become the trend, for chinese forum like NGA it is quite general discussed.

Your burst rotation seems about right, although DB and BW have nothing to do with combustion. 45K seems really really low. I doubt though that people can help you without any info.

Like, do you use that rotation into your PC? Do you use that rotation when Ring is active? What ilvl has your ring? What trinkets do you use? How much crit/mastery do you have?

All these things factor into your combustion and might change it a lot.

[Curnivore]

Question. If we start with a Pyro! without Heating UP, we wait for Heating UP there, no problem with that, however, if I have already casted 2 Pyros in a row during the regular rotation (not talking about Combustion yet), should I also use a 3rd without a HU with it in order to spread a larger Ignite? My intuition says yes, but I don't know if I miss something.

PS. I tested that spec with the latest trend of DSI+Sandman's+High crit and to be frank I find it very unreliable for my tastes since it mainly seems predictable on extremely short fights or fights that are very Patchwerk-esque, but I may keep looking into it for the fun of improving at it.

edit: s/BMI/DSI

[Allanon]

what the heck is BMI?

[yungg]

blackiron micro crucible. im guessing people are using it because the proc can potentially give bigger opening combustion than DSI?


edit: derp that'd be BMC.

[Curnivore]

Sorry I meant DSI. Hehe. It's a typo.

[Blutastic]

How much rating do i need to get 100% crit on my crystal, Do anyone know that?
Is it enough to aim for the crit cap with 725 sandman's pouch, or do i need with the Goren soul ripository trinket aswell for those special fights? I have 725 Sandmans (3080 crit rating on proc) and 706 Mythic Warforged GSR which means 2804 crit on the proc.

Do i think correct here?
Proc for sandman's gives 32,2% crit, and i need 101% crit to cap on the crystal since it is one level above me, and from molten armor, crit buff and basic 5% i have 25% free. Also we have 1,3 times the crit chance with our important spells - so:

101=1,3*(25+32,2+x) => x=20,49
With 110 crit rating equals one percent crit, that gives us crit rating=20,49*110=2254.

Is this conclusion correct that i need 2254 crit rating (including enchants and food buff) to have only crits on my prismatic crystal?

[Curnivore]

I believe so. That rating is where my spreadsheet concludes. The parts that might be confusing is that Incineration bufs the entire rating, the 1.3x buf, and that food buf can help.

[Glitzerbling]

You want 100% on boss too. So the setup for pc cannot fail. Fully buffed that is 47% crit. You shouldnt be playing with gsr anymore though. Sandmans + ring completely outperforms gsr nowadays.
However if you do play with gsr, i think you want much more crit rating.

[Curnivore]

You want 100% on boss too. So the setup for pc cannot fail.

How would it fail?