Fire Haste priority question - SC issue ?

[troti]

Hi all,

Please excuse my english. Hope I'll be clear enough.

I've got a strange behavior with SimC, it's always giving me a haste scale higher than Intel. I got these scale factors on the last sim :

Haste : 10.59
Int : 8.03
Mult : 7.70
Crit : 7.22
SP : 7.18
Mast : 7.02
Vers : 5.89

http://eu.battle.net/wow/fr/character/k ... i/advanced" target="_blank

I tried with more haste (up to 1100 haste), and still same kind of result.

I can understand That I've reach the "breakpoint" in Crit, but how can either Mastery be nearby the last scale factor ??? And Mult. third just behind Int ?

I've tried to search on this forum, but was unable to find a reason. Maybe I Haven't searched correctly.

Can someone tell me why it gives me that result ? I was expecting crit / mastery first, since I've reached the 900 haste

Thanks for your help !

[Komma]

There is no breakpoint or cap at 900 haste. Skiz postulates that around 900 haste is enough to achieve the results he describe in the Fire thread, but I don't believe anyone has shown evidence of haste dropping in value rapidly beyond that point.

[Curnivore]

Peculiar though that haste beats spell power (int). Is that common?

edit: oh wait, it's fire, I almost never sim that.

[Astaine]

these results make sense for single target stat scaling, however, since you have an arcane of spec, and considering the quality of your gear on fire, Your arcane gear is probably quite good. In that case it would be better for you to focus your fire spec around muilti target fights. in which case mastery is one of, if not the best stat to go for. So try and sim for multiple targets and see what the results are.

[troti]

Hi There,

Thanks for your answers.
I'm gonna try simc for 3 target.

However, a few weeks ago, simc was giving me completely "normal" scale values, even on single target fights (crit>Int>Mast>haste>MS), that's why I am really surprised.

I know that the "breakpoint" in haste is not really one. However, I was talking about crit : I'm reaching the 47% crit buffed/feed. So I consider it's normal that Crit does not scale anymore.

But still can't understand Mastery close to last scale factor. I'm wondering if I do not something wrong in simc.

[troti]

here's my results for same gear, 3 targets.



Still haste first ! Really can't figure out why.
It does not follow all the guidelines I've read here.

[Seatoo]

Do you have the correct version of simc?


Edit: Holy cow I got kind of similar results

[Komma]

I know that the "breakpoint" in haste is not really one. However, I was talking about crit : I'm reaching the 47% crit buffed/feed. So I consider it's normal that Crit does not scale anymore.

There isn't a hard cap at 47%. It is a hard cap only for 20 seconds every 120, only for the subset of spells affected by Critical Mass, and only against Prismatic Crystal.

Contrary to popular belief, you don't do 100% of your damage during that small window of time building Combustion . Why wouldn't it scale?

[troti]

Why wouldn't it scale?

You're so right ! Thanks to remind me !

Edit: Holy cow I got kind of similar results

Ah ! Thank god, Im' not alone

Do youy feel comfortable with this result ? Seems kind of weird to me, because it happened suddently.

[Seatoo]

I don't know tbh, I hope to spend a few hours on target dummies today to get a better idea or if it's really accurate

[troti]

Any confirmation ?

I don't dare changing my stuff atm

[Seatoo]

To be honest, I've just said "screw it" and went arcane/frost until we're farming 13/13M

However, anecdotally, on a h-archi pug it seemed to work really well =D

[DyLemma]

Doesn't seem right. If I'm not mistaking simcraft doesn't run, maybe haste is good for that, idk.

[Komma]

It feels like there is this strong belief of Haste being really bad for Fire. I don't understand why people think that way. Indepedently, Fire is one of the strongest haste-scaling specs in the game, due to Combustion and Pyroblast DOT mechanics and Fireball's long cast time. Then there is the issue of getting close to GCD cap for PC, which is generally unattainable without Bloodlust. Haste has great value in allowing the player to land additional DB/BWs into PC, in those situations.

Relative stat values have always been a messy picture. As mentioned many, many times before, stat values will always depend on your specific character and fight conditions. When reading general analytical comments such as "Crit is good" or "Mastery is good", don't blind yourselves into thinking it means "haste is bad". There is nothing suggesting that is the case at all.

[Curnivore]

I don't understand why people think that way.

The apparent reason is that they deal with the spec mainly by intuition alone, thinking that crit is king. They do usually take into account the information about soft haste caps regarding target types but that may be as far as it goes usually. It does have an excuse in that it's a strategical advantage for a certain encounter type to know that you are going to do high dps at a certain point, then again that doesn't explain not taking advantage of the spec mechanics for the rest of the fight but it probably covers or at least it gives the impression that it covers a large part of the spec so not much more is usually investigated about it.