[7.1.5] Fire mage guide for Legion, by Rinoa

[Magition]

May seem like a stupid question but,

whats the deal with mark of the frostwolf vs mark of the thunderlord, i just had a mage friend practicing on dummies using mark of the frostwolf, and it was stacking twice giving him 1k crit instead of the 500?

[Astaine]

Hello altered time community,
I have a question regarding trinket. Usually i would test it by myself but im currently away and my game time has expired.
I've seen you guys have been discusing about tons of trinkets but didnt see anything about iron pistol from iron reaver. I got mythic wf with socket. Is it worth equiping it along with sands mans pouch?

Thanks in advance

Its highly unlikely, the trinket you would use instead of sandmans is nearly allays going to be the classtrinket. This is due to the amazing damage of flamepatch, (hits harder than a pyroblast) as well as patch being affected by haste allowing it to tick more times, and scaling with the number of targets. On a 3 target cleave, patch will nearly allwayse be in the top 2.

The only way i can see you not taking sandmands, and going for a passive crit trinkets, is maby in 5mans where it is likely to proc in places you dont want it, in between pulls, on an easy trashpack not a hard one, since people dont want to wait 2 mins for it to reset

[Dikembe]

May seem like a stupid question but,

whats the deal with mark of the frostwolf vs mark of the thunderlord, i just had a mage friend practicing on dummies using mark of the frostwolf, and it was stacking twice giving him 1k crit instead of the 500?

Frostwolf gives you a chance of stacking the buff twice but Thunderlord guarantees that you'll extend the duration 3 times by 2 seconds with each Crit. That probably makes up for Thunderlord's lower RPPM.

[Curnivore]

Haste can become better in some cases.

I have been informed by a moderator this was reported as a post that has no explanation. It's a repeated result of Simulations on the current default APL. The Plots features also shows something similar or the potential for something similar.

PS. Someone reported the same on Discord and it was treated somewhat like a fluke.

e.g. On a 300sec sim with a regular setup http://pastebin.com/16prTJYn" target="_blank





It doesn't seem that clear cut to tunnel vision crit in all cases.

[Curnivore]

Also PoF is much weaker now and it should be almost always worse than Sandmans in any duration and number of patchwerks. This has been shown to Frosted on Discord and it seems he knows why because Simcraft was overvaluing the debuff until a fix a few days ago.

e.g. on a similar setup to the above on 150sec:


On 300sec:


On 450sec with 3 patchwerks:

Which is especially surprising considering doom is thought as more potent on AOE.

[Magepower]

That graph, why exactly does it go -1000 stats O.o wtf is that about. Also why does it only go to 1000 stats, we are currently sitting easily at 1500+, closer to 2000+ stats.

Something must be wrong to suggest haste would be better than crit. Yes haste is good and offers decent value due to the various interactions with lower CD + ticks but crit is the fundamental base of fire. Too low crit, outside of combustion, and your dmg is going to suffer.

[Pkm]

Which is especially surprising considering doom is thought as more potent on AOE.

Wasn't doom only op for arcane mages because it scaled off literally everything the spec had? Not just cooldowns but also things like the mastery.

[Curnivore]

That graph, why exactly does it go -1000 stats O.o wtf is that about. Also why does it only go to 1000 stats, we are currently sitting easily at 1500+, closer to 2000+ stats.

Something must be wrong

It suggests that tunnel visioning crit might not be a panacea since it appears there are at least some cases where crit isn't best at that current setup state. I can make a more extensive test. e.g. going further, with 20,000 iterations on a similar basic setup of patchwerk 300sec:





We can see there that crit does go above after a point, though not at all the steps until that point and it's also a troll so it might be later for other races.

edit: Plots look prettier at 1000 iterations, but it takes long:

[Lavok]

What happens to haste at that point when it suddenly drops?

[Nikodemus]

The haste plot looked like that if you're close to running out of mana, which happens faster the higher the haste. Don't know if that's the case here, but I wouldn't take that as a solid result.

[lopstar]

Any with sims with Firestarter and Stone of the Elements?
Many top logs are running this setup.
Seems like you can get the first ring to hit for about 3m which is a great deal.
Question if is it worth if you have fights under 2m so you only get 1 ring and 1 Sandman procc.

[carrybag]

Kind of obvious crit > haste. Fall off appears to be at 1500 crit which is easy to get.

Most players are sitting at 2k+ crit.

[Curnivore]

The haste plot looked like that if you're close to running out of mana, which happens faster the higher the haste. Don't know if that's the case here, but I wouldn't take that as a solid result.

The plot is on current simcraft code. It has nothing to do with mana running out. Why wouldn't you take it as a solid result?

Kind of obvious crit > haste. Fall off appears to be at 1500 crit which is easy to get.

Most players are sitting at 2k+ crit.

I don't get that conclusion. That example had a character setup that tunnel visioned crit. It could not get more crit easily.

[Grumpdogg]

Remember that Cinderstorm has no special interaction with Crit. Haste will reduce the cast time and the cooldown, so this may be an area to investigate. Of course the other area of interest is the instant cast spells within the Combustion window and the limiting factor of 0.75s GCD cap.

[carrybag]

My mistake, didn't notice it was stats delta. Thought it was just stats

[Lavok]

If you read the graph more closely, you see that the x-axis is stat delta, which in other words means stats added or reduced. To put it simply, it shows what happens when you add to or reduce crit or haste from the amount the profile has by default. Zero represents the default value of the profile.

To make it even more clear, the graph does in no way indicate the actual stat value of the character, but rather the change from whatever value it originally has.

[Lahrast]

i would speculate that the drop-off has something to do with you hitting the new gcd-cap under TW while combustion is active, why your dps would go down... well that's certainly strange

but i sort of can confirm that haste vs crit is a very close race, my fellow guild mage which sits at around those stats did't bother to resocket his 6 (lol, yes) sockets from haste to crit and there's virtually no difference between us

[Araitik]

With the huge nerf to Flame Patch in the latest hotfixes, what's the value of ToSW in single-target situations now ?

[hatsumi]

Hi all!
What you think about Stone of the Elements?
I see than more and more mages coming in top logs with it trinket

[versy]

I parsed 164k on hc archi last week with flamepatch being like 17m damage..i tested it again last night on hc archi and i parsed 103k..8.3m flamepatch damage...that was some nerf to flamepatch..i wasnt expecting it but then its prepatch.
I need to evaluate the use of mythic tosw now using flamepatch to other damage within that tier.