cinderstorm & pyretic interaction

[Xyren]

Hey guys,
doing mythic dungeons on two mages i discovered a "weird" interaction between cinderstorm and pyretic incantation. Basically this is how it works:
iÍf you stand inside of the hitbox of your target and cast cinderstorm all of your cinders hit at the same time (so far nothing weird). Since they are all hitting at the exact same time the game doesnt distinguish between the impacts (sry my english is not the best).
This results in the following: Casting cinderstorm in melee range will grant you a high amount of pyretic stacks on avarage.
The number of pyretic stacks is equal to the amount of crits you get when casting cinderstorm (ofc capped at 5).
To make it more clear:
casting CS on one target in melee range : 1 cinder crits, 5 noncrits -> 1 pyretic stack
2 cinder crits, 4 noncrits -> 2 pyretic stacks
3 cinder crits, 3 noncrits -> 3 pyretic stacks etc. etc.
If you cast CS on range you will often end up without pyretic stacks(when the last cinder doesnt crit) and by standing inside of the hitbox of the target there is no "last" cinder, all hit at the same time making it very unlikely to end up with 0 stacks (only happens if all 6 cinders are non crits).

This means its best before every burst (combustion or normal RoP burst) to go into melee and cast a cinderstorm before using RoP to maximize your pyretic stacks and therefor your burst potential.

I talked to Frosted before making this post and he came to the conclusion that its probably due to client & server latency that this works the way it does.

Greetings, Xyren

[Curnivore]

That seems like unintended behavior because it would produce awkward gameplay.

[fieryphoenix]

Well, cinderstorm already has awkward gameplay written all over it, with positioning determining how many cinders hit. Sims show it as very strong, but hitting every cinder every time is not exactly realistic in any real dungeon or raid scenario. I personally dislike the talent, and will avoid using it if I can.

[Menghi]

Thanks Xyren for sharing, that is an amazing way of optimize our Combustion.

[Mageski]

Frost Nova behaves like this as well on trash packs.

[Falq]

Frost Nova behaves like this as well on trash packs.

What do you mean? I don't understand how casting n spells on 1 target can work as 1 spell on n targets. Not disagreeing just completely not understand.

Let's say we get 3 mobs - "Close", "Mid-range", "Far" mobs cast frost nova and let's say it doesn't crit on "Far" mob but crit on other 2. Do we get 2 pyretic stacks since nova is hitting all 3 mobs at once or does hit them 1 by 1 and you get 2 stacks but moment "Far" mob is being hit you loose them?

Would like to test it myself but I don't have Pyretic trait yet and this looks like huge amount of potential stacks you can get for your burst.

[Letemburn]

Watching this inspired me to add cinderstorm to my opener, I wish I had read the thread for Rinoa's Guide to Legion Fire more thoroughly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3PowTEQNIg" target="_blank

[Frantik]

well this makes for some nice burst indeed but assuming this is intended behaviour and nothing changes how do you execute this in lets say a raid boss??

Precast your pyro and then blink into boss to do the rest?

[Letemburn]

well this makes for some nice burst indeed but assuming this is intended behaviour and nothing changes how do you execute this in lets say a raid boss??

Precast your pyro and then blink into boss to do the rest?

With shimmer this could easily be done.

[Falq]

Thanks for nice video Letemburn! I think you are right about opener, casting cinderstorm early in the opener will provide full Pyrotic Stacks for whole burst phase. Cinderstorm is quite good damage aswell so trade is worth in my opinion.

Also I think we are slightly missing point of this topic. If I understand correctly topic was about having Cinderstorm as safe cast for keeping Pyretic stacks up while standing in melee (correct me if I'm wrong).

According to to Xyren if you stand in melee and cast Cinderstorm, you always get stacks equal to crits you hit with cinderstorms. Adding to this research Letemburn video we clearly see that it's not truth (or it depends on hitbox). In around 0:59 we can see that Letemburn cast Cinderstorm with 5 stacks or Pyretic on dummy and according to this post he should still have full stacks if any of them crit. We can see on MSBT that 2 of them crit but after cast he gets 1 stack - since it's consecutive crits it's all fine). All I can say with information we got is that if you cast Cinderstorm in melee all cinders hits target but Non-crits hits before crits, what results in you getting your stacks reseted with at least 1 non crit cinder.

In my opinion it's not anything overpowered but it's not useless information either. If it works like I wrote above, and we have "crit phase" in our rotation, we can always start it with Cinderstorm melee cast so we get non crits first, and we start our "crit phase" with few stacks of Pyretic.

[Biowned]

After some testing, it looks like this does indeed work BUT ONLY if you had no stacks before using CiS. If you had at least one stack and use CiS, you either get 6 crits or you go back to no stacks.

While it may be related to server ping, that's how it worked for me 100% of the times reproduced.

So (at least for me), the proper way to use this interaction would be to clear my stacks via /cancelaura and then use CiS.

PS: Looks like totally unintended and I wouldn't rely on this too much since it will probably get fixed.

[Curnivore]

Well, cinderstorm already has awkward gameplay written all over it

Being bad is not a reason to make it worse.

[Xyren]

Ok to clarify : If you stand exactly inside of the hitbox of a mob, it works exactly like i said. You get pyretic stacks equal to the amount of cs crits. i added a screenshot for clarification
It is also correct that it only works if you have 0 pyretic stacks, which i didnt notice at first, since i only really did the opener with it with precasting cs right away (thx to biowned for noticing).
@Letemburn you kinda missed the point of this. The intention of this "trick" is to be able to cast cs before RoP & combust. If you have 50% crit this will grant you 3 pyretic stacks on avarage and you dont have to waste RoP / comb uptime with a hardcast and therefor can get one more pyro into it!

edit: didnt read the comment on your video Letemburn but wanted to clarify that the video doesnt catch the idea behind my post

[Curnivore]

you dont have to waste RoP / comb uptime with a hardcast and therefor can get one more pyro into it

What hardcast is that?

[Xinder]

you dont have to waste RoP / comb uptime with a hardcast and therefor can get one more pyro into it

What hardcast is that?

I think he's referring to hardcasting CiS inside the combustion window to get the PI stacks to 5. I could be misunderstanding it though.

[Xenost]

you dont have to waste RoP / comb uptime with a hardcast and therefor can get one more pyro into it

What hardcast is that?

In the video he's hardcasting CiS during RoP, with the forementioned exploit he could do something like :
precast pyro -> CiS (melee range) to get ~3-4 stacks piretic -> RoP sequence

Or just precast CiS instead of pyro if sitting on RoP/comb (for 3-4s after pull) is a dps loss, but you need really good shimmer and position skill to hit that melee CiS if you want to precast it.

[Firepit]

This sounds like a mage nerf and a hotfix written all over it. Please don't feel the animals, i like our gig the way it is

[gormac]

Works perfect, but trinkets with dmg (devilosaur etc) RESET STACKS! So must use passive trinkets.

[Sosaria]

Seriously going to give this a try...

[Summ3r]

Sorry for offtopic. Im not talking about raids, cause its tuesday in europe today, not wednesday. But in my mythical dungeons bosses rarely lives for 2 minutes. Well with no Kindling i wouldnt cast Combustion two times per fight and i guess its a small dps loss.
Do you guys have another situation with boss killing timer and because of this you picking CiS or what?