[7.1.5] Fire mage guide for Legion, by Rinoa

[Xinder]

@Ekye You can't enchant artifact weapons.

[Rickosad]

I have a Question about the opener. Why should not start with a Pheonix flame? It is a guaranteed Crit and i would not lose time and waste a blast if my first cast is not a crit. In 10 seconds combustion i can still use 2 flames in it(all 3 is impossible or?). Or do i miss something?

[LaplaceNoMa]

It seems like there's some conflicting info between this thread and the sims results thread. Most importantly, the 'basic' stat weights being completely different in two threads. Which one is more up-to-date?

Both I'd say. Stat weight HIGHLY depends on your current gear and artifact level. Best solution would be to sim yourself.

Well, there is some sort of pre-raid 'best' choice, I think. We have four parts that make our character currently:

1. Artifact path
2. Artifact relics
3. Trinkets
4. Gear

Simming trinkets, artifact path and even relics shouldn't rely that much on specific gear; so we can find the pre-raid bests for those 3 points easily, I think.

Next, we have gear, which comes down to 'Crafted 850s in every slot'. I am pretty sure that if we set that as a general rule for gearing, it will be possible to find the specific stat weights for this situation.

Currently, we have one thread setting vers as top2 (which sounds a bit ridiculous, to be honest, and more like a 'very special gear' situation, not a 'general' situation) while another still values haste and mastery.

[Xenost]

I have a question about the APL from Simcraft:

fire_blast,if=talent.kindling.enabled&buff.heating_up.up&(!talent.rune_of_power.enabled|charges_fractional>1.5|cooldown.combustion.remains<40)&(3-charges_fractional)*(18*spell_haste)<cooldown.combustion.remains+3|target.time_to_die.remains<4

The sim use fire blast outside of RoP only if FB charges are over 1.5, how is it practical? Isn't there a high risk to cap charge by not getting a heating up during this interval (assuming no haste we have something like 3 fireball cast during this interval).

I can see why banking FB for RoP is optimal but since RoP has charges we have 40 sec to decide when is the best time to use RoP and bank accordingly. (and it takes at most 24s to bank 2 Fireblast) And why would I bank for RoP if its remaining CD is above 24s for example?


Furthermore the sim use Fire blast during RoP regardless of heating up proc, which seems weird. When I look at a sim detail through sample sequence, it happens (when PF is down) that fire blast is used during RoP only for damage with no benefits towards getting hot streak; I can't see how it's not a dps loss.

[Mæc]

I think it has to do with banking charges for Rune of Power, because while the actions.single_target part of the APL doesn't explicitly do that, that's sort of what's happening.

At present the call to use Rune of Power has an AND condition charges_fractional>1.8, so that whenever the APL is in danger of wasting Fire Blast, it will use Rune of Power. What's more, the part |cooldown.combustion.remains<40 in the line you qouted ensures that Fire Blast is being used aggressively in the period of time where Rune of Power is being saved for Combustion.

[Xenost]

This charges_fractional >1.8 refers to RoP charges, so RoP will always be up when Combustion goes off CD, which isn't necessary if you don't take kindling since every 3 rop will align with Combu (40*3= 120).

I have a hard time picturing why the sim keeps FB charges above 1.5 when RoP won't ever be used for maybe 20-30 more seconds (like right after the pull sequence RoP won't be used for almost 1 minute), most of the time it won't be detrimental but there is a risk of cap.

Maybe it's because it's easier to represent it that way in an APL and the amount of cap would be negligible, but I think there is something I might miss since Sim profiles are supposed to be optimal.

The random fireblasts during RoP seems even more weird to me.

[takonic]

I have 2x 840 ilvl Fire artifacts. 1 is 2% crit damage, and 1 is 8% Pyroblast, which one is a better choice? seems like a huge side-grade.

[Calo]

If both are the same ilvl and giving the same amount of I'll, I reckon you should use the pro relic

[Telomir]

EDIT: Gunpower -> Gunpowder

Gunpowder Charges are amazing as well as being a cheaper option to Deadly Grace potions. They do 317k dmg by default (non-crit), however, it scales with Combustion, RoP, and PI stacks. So, before RoP/Combustion ends, chuck one of those at your target. Mine average about 1.1-1.5m damage depending on procs during the time.

Enjoy <3

[Xinder]

So would Deadly Grace be our prepot potion before the precast of pyro in our opener? With Raids opening up soon I want to make sure I'm ready. I'm assuming it's deadly grace and not a Draenic Int pot still.

[prateems]

I tried playing with kindling a bunch and am finding making it work with Flame On is very weird. If I use Flame On as soon as it's off cooldown, Kindling will cause a 20 second de-sync of FO with Combustion when combustion is off cd. That means if I want to use FO with combustion then I have to delay combust for 20 ish seconds.

The other option is to just not use Flame On when it's off cooldown and wait for combustion to be off cooldown. This may sound like "just wait 20 seconds for Combustion to be off cd" but it'll be more like 30-40 seconds (since crits I got while using Flame On in the previous scenario would push down combust's cooldown to cause the 20 second de-sync).

I've swapped to using CiS for now, which I'm liking a lot more currently because it doesn't cause syncing issues b/w FO and Combustion, and which I used a lot during HFC Fire days.

But does anyone have any feedback about properly using Flame On in conjunction with Kindling?

[Xenost]

The consensus seems to be to hold flame on for combustion.

There is no good answer if we disregard the fight length, if delaying Combustion by 20s gives you as much Combustion cast during the fight you should delay Combustion, but if you lose a Combustion because of this delay, you should hold flame on.

Losing 1 flame on cast is less detrimental than losing 1 combustion, that's why if a general rule has to be set it would be to hold Flame On, and I think it's what we should do if we don't want to think too much about fight length and shit. (plus depending on crit numbers it can vary)

[Potaetoe]

The consensus seems to be to hold flame on for combustion.

There is no good answer if we disregard the fight length, if delaying Combustion by 20s gives you as much Combustion cast during the fight you should delay Combustion, but if you lose a Combustion because of this delay, you should hold flame on.

Losing 1 flame on cast is less detrimental than losing 1 combustion, that's why if a general rule has to be set it would be to hold Flame On, and I think it's what we should do if we don't want to think too much about fight length and shit. (plus depending on crit numbers it can vary)

If and only if you're running Kindling, yes. If you're running Cinderstorm, you should be able to fit a Flame On! before the next Combust.

[Xenost]

If and only if you're running Kindling, yes. If you're running Cinderstorm, you should be able to fit a Flame On! before the next Combust.

That's correct but you may still need to delay the third Flame On.

[Chuk]

Not sure if this has been awnsered, but i`m kind struggling on keeping an optimal rotation.


One thing that is bothering me is the priority.

I know that we fireball till heat up, fireblast to get hot streak, but after that, should you start casting another fireball to fireball > pyro or just instantly pyro with the hot streak buff?

Lexi from method has said this but i`m getting better results by pyroing right away instead of casting another fireball.

Also, is Cinderstorm as good as the sim says? I never seem to land as 6 hits and i can`t find a way to fit it on my rotation, should i cast it of CD everytime or should i wait for no actions to cast it?

[mml]

Hello. What do you think about Cinderstorm opener ?
it seems that it has even higher burst potential than standard one.

4.5sec to pull - Precast pyro (crits) > rune of power > Cinderstorm > Combustion + Fireblast at the middle of the Cinder cast > Pyro > fb > flameon > pyro > phoenix > pyro and so on.

i managed to open with bl on single target for more than 1.1mln at some point. Never saw similar results on standard opener (max was 970-980k).

Its harder than normal opener because of cinder aiming. However i think it might be a little bit better opener than a standard one. Whats ur opinion?

[Thisgame]

EDIT: Gunpower -> Gunpowder

Gunpowder Charges are amazing as well as being a cheaper option to Deadly Grace potions. They do 317k dmg by default (non-crit), however, it scales with Combustion, RoP, and PI stacks. So, before RoP/Combustion ends, chuck one of those at your target. Mine average about 1.1-1.5m damage depending on procs during the time.

Enjoy <3

Depending on your progression level, you'll see about double to quadruple that from deadly grace though. It's a fine alternative for casual progression but if you intend to do the most damage possible, deadly grace can't be beaten.

[Thisgame]

Not sure if this has been awnsered, but i`m kind struggling on keeping an optimal rotation.


One thing that is bothering me is the priority.

I know that we fireball till heat up, fireblast to get hot streak, but after that, should you start casting another fireball to fireball > pyro or just instantly pyro with the hot streak buff?

Lexi from method has said this but i`m getting better results by pyroing right away instead of casting another fireball.

Also, is Cinderstorm as good as the sim says? I never seem to land as 6 hits and i can`t find a way to fit it on my rotation, should i cast it of CD everytime or should i wait for no actions to cast it?

Lexi says this because the interaction between fireball and pyro hitting at the exact same time, by doing it the way you described, means that only one has to crit in order to gain heating up. If both crit, it's obviously would have made no difference, but often it works like so.

The way you want to do it:
You cast pyro on hot streak which crits, giving you a charge of heating up, then cast fireball, which does not crit and you therefore lose your heating up and are back to square one.

The way lexi and this post describe:
You gain hot streak by whatever means. You cast fireball then pyro at the end of cast. In the exact same scenario described above, where the pyro crits but fireball does not, in this case you will still have your heating up and be able to continue your rotation having not munched your heating up, which you can now convert to hot streak with either phoenix or fireblast, depending on where you're at.

Hopefully this is somewhat clear to you

[Chuk]

Not sure if this has been awnsered, but i`m kind struggling on keeping an optimal rotation.


One thing that is bothering me is the priority.

I know that we fireball till heat up, fireblast to get hot streak, but after that, should you start casting another fireball to fireball > pyro or just instantly pyro with the hot streak buff?

Lexi from method has said this but i`m getting better results by pyroing right away instead of casting another fireball.

Also, is Cinderstorm as good as the sim says? I never seem to land as 6 hits and i can`t find a way to fit it on my rotation, should i cast it of CD everytime or should i wait for no actions to cast it?

Lexi says this because the interaction between fireball and pyro hitting at the exact same time, by doing it the way you described, means that only one has to crit in order to gain heating up. If both crit, it's obviously would have made no difference, but often it works like so.

The way you want to do it:
You cast pyro on hot streak which crits, giving you a charge of heating up, then cast fireball, which does not crit and you therefore lose your heating up and are back to square one.

The way lexi and this post describe:
You gain hot streak by whatever means. You cast fireball then pyro at the end of cast. In the exact same scenario described above, where the pyro crits but fireball does not, in this case you will still have your heating up and be able to continue your rotation having not munched your heating up, which you can now convert to hot streak with either phoenix or fireblast, depending on where you're at.

Hopefully this is somewhat clear to you

No it's still not clear.

Let's assume this scenario:

I have heating up procced.

Fireball is mid cast, fireblast during fireball cast to gain hotstreak.

Now, before fireball is casted, i have hot streak. Should i:

A - Cast piroblast as fireball is travelling
B - Start another fireball cast, and when this fireball finishes casting, cast the pyroblast.

I`m currently doing A, to be honest, B makes no sense to me, unless i misinterpreted the text somehow.

I know that if i have a hot streak proc and i`m not casting anything i should cast a fireball before, that`s pretty clear, but what about a CURRENT fireball cast, like the example i gave?

Hope i`m being clear, been a while since i`ve written something in english lol.

[DeathDefier]

You've misinterpreted for sure. If you convert to a pyro with fire blast mid fireball cast, you should always use the pyro. What they refer to when they say always fireball first is when you throw a pyro after a fireball and they both crit, you should be casting a fireball first before you use that proc you got from the double crit.