Sept 23 Hotfix Discussion Thread

[Galluck]

I'm confused, do Fire, Frost, and Arcane sub-forums exist? Why did we have our threads locked and redirected to an administrator post about the changes across all specs when we were specifically in an Arcane sub-forum talking specifically about the Arcane changes.

Just joined, and already kind of disappointed with this moderation.

If I wanted to discuss or read about frost changes I would have been in the Frost sub-forum.

[Frantik]

So this is what it shows now in simcraft:


Were the changes implemented allready?

[Mortos]

Its kinda pointless to look at T19 where we know it will not come any time soon (7.1 will come before it)

need to compare Current gear levels not future ones

BUT if this is true
the great job by blizzard
Fire=Arcane and frost is a couple of % behind

[Nurf]

Not sure if the stat weights we've seen are true (with Mastery on top), but if they are, Arcane should be even higher on those sims. The current one on the front page has Arcane using a Crit and Vers-stacking set.

[Mevlin]

Is the 20% mastery buff even added? Looking at the "Current simulation fixes" it doesn't seem to be that way.


While looking at the shaman one you see the following

[Unreal]

Its kinda pointless to look at T19 where we know it will not come any time soon (7.1 will come before it)

need to compare Current gear levels not future ones

BUT if this is true
the great job by blizzard
Fire=Arcane and frost is a couple of % behind

actually, the gear ilvl in those sims is behind what we have equipped. 840 dungeon gear is what they're using.

[canofbutter]

Is the 20% mastery buff even added? Looking at the "Current simulation fixes" it doesn't seem to be that way.

It doesn't show in the simulation hotfixes, but it is in the recent changes in the code repository 2 days ago (commit 7b5ebbc). https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc ... 1eb6f08d12" target="_blank

[nathyiel]

In T19P, the *P* is for pre-raid if I'm not wrong.

For information, the choice of artifact trait for a specific talent comp can have more impact than optimising stat from gear.

I began to think that we will need to test with all artifact trait (except the last that buff only damage) to see how tuning will be in a few weeks.

[Effia]

Still waiting for someone to figure out what the stat weights will be on Wednesday for Arcane, I'd work them out myself if I had the slightest clue how to do it, but I don't. I have a bunch of gear in my bags and I need to figure out which bits to use and which bits to dump.

[Perfect72]

I'm confused, do Fire, Frost, and Arcane sub-forums exist? Why did we have our threads locked and redirected to an administrator post about the changes across all specs when we were specifically in an Arcane sub-forum talking specifically about the Arcane changes.

Just joined, and already kind of disappointed with this moderation.

If I wanted to discuss or read about frost changes I would have been in the Frost sub-forum.

I saw that in the Frost forums and it irked me too. I don't care about Arcane or Fire talk just Frost. But I'm stuck in this thread skimming over and ignoring Arcane stuff to get to Frost discussion. Moderation on that one seems to be pretty poor.

[Komma]

I'm confused, do Fire, Frost, and Arcane sub-forums exist? Why did we have our threads locked and redirected to an administrator post about the changes across all specs when we were specifically in an Arcane sub-forum talking specifically about the Arcane changes.

Just joined, and already kind of disappointed with this moderation.

If I wanted to discuss or read about frost changes I would have been in the Frost sub-forum.

I saw that in the Frost forums and it irked me too. I don't care about Arcane or Fire talk just Frost. But I'm stuck in this thread skimming over and ignoring Arcane stuff to get to Frost discussion. Moderation on that one seems to be pretty poor.

I understand where you're coming from, and agree that it's not a clearcut call. As I made the decision to consolidate the threads, let me see if I can explain it to your liking.

In Warlords of Draenor, hotfix-news were consolidated in general discussion threads, since they often ended up with spec comparisons, ie. "where does spec A sit against spec B after these buffs/nerfs". In that sense, it's better to view it in the context of a class, instead of context of a spec. This means we don't need to deal tons of "Should I still play Fire?" posts in the Arcane or Frost forums. With these across the board balance hotfixes, we're not expecting drastic rotation changes as a result, so there isn't much to discuss within the context of the spec itself ("Hey, my Frostbolt hit for 80K instead of 70K!" "...cool?"). On the other hand, if these were mechanical changes instead of numeric tuning, I would completely agree that it should be within a spec forum instead of general discussion.

The philosophy behind all our forums is like this: For any experienced progression player (let's nickname him as Sleepymages), "Every thread within a forum should be worth clicking". That is why we try to keep every spec forum clear of "help me" questions, because Sleepymages doesn't care whether player X should use trinket A versus trinket B. In the same sense, if Sleepymages is asking "how will these fixes change my decision on what to play", it would be a Mage question, not a Fire or Frost or Arcane question. If Sleepymages reads the Frost forum, he is going to want to know things like...
- How does Thermal Void stack up against Comet Storm in AOE?
- What tricks are there to using Frost Bomb while avoiding munching FoF as much as possible?
- What's the best way to schedule abilities while using Ray of Frost without delaying any CD for too long?
- How exactly does Splitting Ice work with Glacial Spike?

As you can see, it's easy to come up with a long list of items to justify the existence of spec forums, and I wouldn't worry about a lack of discussion topics. The only issue is finding the community interest and energy to generate buzz around them.

[Sleepymages]

Thank you Komma

[Aaddr]

I'm somewhat new to these forums so I was wondering when a new build and stat priority would be updated for the main arcane page after these changes. I see that the last update was on the 11th so just wondering what stats to be going after as soon as possible, as well as trinkets and legendary's to wear (if I ever get one haha).

Thanks in advance

[xirrohon]

Is the consensus to stay Fire? Im curious as I have been banking a lot of AP to consider swapping to Arcane.

[herpyderpidy]

Latests sims seem to show Fire and Arcane being pretty close to eachother. At this point, you should play what you wan't.

[Voltairus]

That'd be fine if, as it was pointed out, the current sims are using 840 item level stuff which is already outdated for most of us by now. Any sort of consensus on how to approach things in almost any respect is virtually non-existent from those who have typically been running the information highway in the past. Not sure if whomever are compiling stuff for the sims don't have all the information somehow still or if they've been swamped to the point in being behind with things but it seems to be we've all got to just play through things ourselves and do what feels right.

I would say that until we see things play out I would imagine Fire to remain a safe choice if you really are afraid of how the numbers will work out when it's all said and done for the other specs. And if you aren't really pushing progression too seriously then stick with whichever spec you are comfortable with. I have found that being comfortable with one spec can lead to you having good performance regardless of how far ahead other specs can be.

[Nurf]

Yep, I've been banking my AP since this weekend, and we raid late in the week so I'll see how everyone else gets along with Arcane/Fire before making a call for myself. I don't trust current sims, though.

[Woke]

Yep, I've been banking my AP since this weekend, and we raid late in the week so I'll see how everyone else gets along with Arcane/Fire before making a call for myself. I don't trust current sims, though.

Note that the sims people are mentioning throughout this thread and linking are patchwork style single target fights. This would imply that while Arcane seems to be slightly outperforming fire and frost in its current iteration at 840, it does not necessarily indicate what it is when we are 850,860, etc. If Fire scaling is better than Arcane, and if the gear dropped in Emerald Nightmare stat itemization is better suited for Fire, then Fire could very well be better than Arcane despite what the simulations show.

Also, the simulations do not account for AoE or multi-target fights, which a large majority are in Emerald Nightmare. The only way you will in fact know what is best for YOU is if you sim your character with both specs. My fire weapon is about 25 ilvls higher than an Arcane weapon could be for me at this point, so Arcane just isn't touching Fire on single target for me at all in comparison.

[herpyderpidy]

So, with the Arcane Mastery buff, do we know what the new Stat Priority is ?

[Nurf]

So I decided to run a sim with stat weights for the "default" t19p profile of an Arcane Mage. The results were this:



Which is quite unsynchronized with what the stats on the actual items are for that profile (high crit/haste/vers, basically no mastery).

Stat weights for my own gear (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/k ... advanced):



But the APL hasn't been updated (or so I'm told) and it's of course all relative. Also both these gear sets are fairly starved of Mastery atm (the default one moreso than mine, though).