A Simple Call to All Frost mages

[Berlinia]

Okay guys

There has been alot of discussion in the past few months concerning stats on BiS levels. But we still do not have a definite answer. What I propose is lets make the next few weeks some weeks of logging stuff and uploading it here for everyone to see!
Idea:
Week 1: Haste > Mastery > Crit
Week 2: Mastery > Haste > Crit
Week 3: Haste > Mastery = Crit

Anyone up for this?
cheers

[Crabmodem]

I might be willing to try this on my flex runs. Not sure I want to try it in my normal runs

[Akraen]

Not a bad idea to test it, or use this post to just gather links to all the logs under each category. However, I've tried them all already and I perform best with Haste > Crit >= Mastery, but I'm Akraen so I guess that's that.

[Crabmodem]

Not a bad idea to test it, or use this post to just gather links to all the logs under each category. However, I've tried them all already and I perform best with Haste > Crit >= Mastery, but I'm Akraen so I guess that's that.

A quick question about your mastery=crit. With that soft cap of 28% do you find it is a bit waste if you have a high proc rate on your FoF?

[Akraen]

Not a bad idea to test it, or use this post to just gather links to all the logs under each category. However, I've tried them all already and I perform best with Haste > Crit >= Mastery, but I'm Akraen so I guess that's that.

A quick question about your mastery=crit. With that soft cap of 28% do you find it is a bit waste if you have a high proc rate on your FoF?

Sure, but by the same logic there's a waste of having haste above 14242. No matter which angle you choose to look at frost stats, we lose something. I hope to find a real answer for everyone soon, maybe the true answer is haste=mastery=crit, I just don't know really and all of the math that's been done isn't conclusive.

My personal results vary from many others which is also odd-- obviously nobody is making it up or lying. Going for crit over mastery is just a way to maximize LB/NT/WE damage.

[Crabmodem]

I would hate to think we are like hunters where Crit Mastery Haste are equal to each other. It kills me a little inside to know we are going to have to work this all out a gain in a few months when they take away reforging and add in multi strike and cleave.

[Mumrit]

I would hate to think we are like hunters where Crit Mastery Haste are equal to each other. It kills me a little inside to know we are going to have to work this all out a gain in a few months when they take away reforging and add in multi strike and cleave.

I wouldn't worry too much. It's very safe to assume that one stat will stand out for us and we'll gear trying to find that stat specifically. Instead of reforging, the difference between 'the right piece' and 'the wrong piece' will likely feel more important since we won't be able to reforge an undesirable stat away. Remember, the goal is to make all secondary stats worth-while (not useless), not equal

As far as crit = mastery.. A lot of it is going to factor into what abilities you're using.

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Frost spells that benefit from mastery: 1.) Frosbolt 2. )Frostfire bolt - indirectly the bombs due to being the generator for FFB 3.) Pet bolt

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Spells that benefit from crit past soft-cap: 1.) frost bolt 2.) pet bolt 3.) LB/NT/FB 4.) Frozen Orb 5.) Mirror Images

In other words, if you're not generating a lot of hard casts or are in a situation where you have a lot of targets to multi-dot, crit is going to make considerable gains on mastery. If you're in a situation where you're able to hardcast with only one or two targets, mastery is probably the way to go.

[Crabmodem]

as of right now i'm just going flex and normal SoO after taking a year off to play GW2. I came back to WoW right when 5.4 came out and it has taken me this long to find a raiding guild since the server i'm on wants people with a higher ilvl than the raid gives to get into their pugs. right now self buffed with no food or flask i'm at 47.35% haste 57.8% Mastery and 21.17% crit. The only people beating me in the DPS in our guild is a pair of hunters who outgear me by 10ilvls Maybe I should put some more into crit and hard cap my haste at 14242 to get my crit to 28% unbuffed

[Alkbalk]

Sure, but by the same logic there's a waste of having haste above 14242. No matter which angle you choose to look at frost stats, we lose something. I hope to find a real answer for everyone soon, maybe the true answer is haste=mastery=crit, I just don't know really and all of the math that's been done isn't conclusive.

Whats the mastery waste? Isn't this an argument for 14242 haste > 28 % crit > mastery

[Crabmodem]

I think it is to see if it is really mastery over crit past 28% or mastery equal crit.

[Akraen]

Sure, but by the same logic there's a waste of having haste above 14242. No matter which angle you choose to look at frost stats, we lose something. I hope to find a real answer for everyone soon, maybe the true answer is haste=mastery=crit, I just don't know really and all of the math that's been done isn't conclusive.

Whats the mastery waste? Isn't this an argument for 14242 haste > 28 % crit > mastery

As the ET% of any non-icicle generator increases with relation to icicle generators, mastery is devalued. This occurs in mastery's favor as you increase haste up to 14242, then still occurs outside meta/hero windows until 100% haste.

However, upon further inspection you'll note that it is possible to increase the added damage from crit and haste gains into non-icicle generators at a pace that exceeds mastery-- that's the best way to word my "theory" here.

So the argument at this point is one of 3 ultimate options:

1) Non-icicle generator scaling from haste/crit outpaces icicle generator scaling of haste/crit
2) Icicle generator scaling from mastery in fact outpaces haste/crit scaling
3) Crit and ampCrit outscale haste and mastery in enough situations due to other window caps, intellect gains, and/or unforeseen effects to merit crit stacking

In reality, on any given boss fights there is x% time spent in situation 1, x% time spent in situation 2, and x% spent in situation 3. Since each fight varies from guild to guild, week to week, moment to moment there is no way to correctly model this to determine a correct stat priority.

There may be a leader, but it is not a very big one-- the only challenge with gearing and statting correctly as a frost mage is explaining to other frost mages the simplicity of it.