Fire Trinket Discussion Megathread

[Pank]

I mean the Bough ranks high on the trinket comparison list but when I'm siming with the same or different settings it doesn't show nearly enough damage to be a viable trinket for me. And the real life dmg isn't there as well. At least for me, even with the recent buff. To back up the sims I'm mostly running one section of lfr for those bonus augment runes and gold testing the gear set along the way. Bough nets me around 2%-3% of my total dps, Aran is at 7-10%.

So my current config for aoe is unstable horrorslime (865) and Aran (860), and ST is wriggling (865) and again Aran. Notable mention comes from swarming plaguehive which is really decent (865 as well with socket ) and the proc rate as well as dmg is good. These are my findings, I'd really like to know more about the bough of corrution, some hard evidence not just the sims that the trinket is viable before I give it another shot.

Aran's just sick with RoP, it's really cool that we got a good use for the second charge of rune for a floating burst between combustions.

[broedrost]

I mean the Bough ranks high on the trinket comparison list but when I'm siming with the same or different settings it doesn't show nearly enough damage to be a viable trinket for me. And the real life dmg isn't there as well. At least for me, even with the recent buff. To back up the sims I'm mostly running one section of lfr for those bonus augment runes and gold testing the gear set along the way. Bough nets me around 2%-3% of my total dps, Aran is at 7-10%.

So my current config for aoe is unstable horrorslime (865) and Aran (860), and ST is wriggling (865) and again Aran. Notable mention comes from swarming plaguehive which is really decent (865 as well with socket ) and the proc rate as well as dmg is good. These are my findings, I'd really like to know more about the bough of corrution, some hard evidence not just the sims that the trinket is viable before I give it another shot.

Aran's just sick with RoP, it's really cool that we got a good use for the second charge of rune for a floating burst between combustions.

Yeah Bough used to sim bad for me too. Until today. I downloaded the new SimC update and all of a sudden my Bough sims 4-5k dps over any other trinket I have... It is inconsistent though so I'm not sure how good it actually is but I use it together with wriggling now in almost every scenario. Gonna be interesting to see some results

[Pank]

Kinda clueless why the blizzard decided to make the proc so random. Same is with chronoshard, sometimes you get back to back procs and sometimes it doesn't even proc in a 5 min scenario.

And since a fire mage does 80% of overall dmg in short bursts the trinkets inability to have that essential control over it is making it fairly useless for the most part. What's the supposed ICD on the thing?

Looks like I'll be camping lfr satchel bonuses today and testing it further

[Magecharm]

After numerous of testing i can only say that aran trinket is bis for me. Im using it on single target as well, lining it up with RoP. Other trinket i use is bough, still unlucky with geting sinew.

Honestly if you have aran and bough the sinew isnt gonna be better than those. The bough is inconsistent so sometimes it wont stop proccing and other times it wont proc at all but on average by experience is that in situations where the bough procs the sinew pales in comparison by an enormous amount.

Right they have trinkets like this every tier where ones heavily favored for RNG while the other's more consistent. I guess you could compare bough to sinew here right? So at this point it comes down to if you want to play with RNG or not because if you get fucked then sinew is better, if you dont get fucked sinew is worse. With that being said sinew is a consistant on use proc which makes the dps it can bring alot more stable than a bough

[ardomur]

Same experience as everybody else.
On Ursoc Mythic my Bought did 0 damage, my colleague had amazing procs, his did 12,82m damage, Sinew with 4,5m lacking behind...
I get HFC Doomnova flashbacks...
Overall i'm pretty happy with bought, the damage is great and back to back procs make this Trinket amazing, haven't gotten Arans Trinket but on Weekly Mythic 10 and 12+ my colleague's did about 12% overall, even single target beeing realtivly consistent on 8% or so

[DeathDefier]

Bough is bugged if multiple people are using it in your raid. Whoever procs it first, the others add to the first one.

[qaiga]

Is 860 Arcanocrystal actually better than 870 Spiked Tongue? I simmed it and the 870 spiked tongue is 2k behind with my 860 arcanocrystal. Should I follow simc? Or it's better to switch my arcano with spiked tongue

[Torthie]

Bough is bugged if multiple people are using it in your raid. Whoever procs it first, the others add to the first one.

Can anyone confirm this? I'm the only one using the trinket in my raid atm so I have no way of telling.

[Stauros]

Bough is bugged if multiple people are using it in your raid. Whoever procs it first, the others add to the first one.

I doubt this. Have had attempts where both me and other Mage have similar bough damage.

[Rellie]

I finally got Wriggling Sinew last night, 885 Heroic Titanforged. I read through this entire thread and could not find a definitive answer on how to best use it. People have made several suggestions but no one has posted sims, so I thought I would give it a go.

Potential Strategies for using Wriggling Sinew
1) with CiS, Sinew always lines up with Combustion every 2 minutes. Use Sinew on CD with Combustion.
2) with Kindling, hold Sinew and only use it when Combustion is ready.
3) with Kindling, hold Combustion and only use it when Sinew is ready.
4) with Kindling, use Sinew on CD and don't specifically try to pair it up with anything beyond the opener.

I've simmed each potential strategy for a 5 minute fight with default SimCraft options except 25ms lag and 0.05% target error. Here's how it fell out:

MainPlot.png (11.48 KiB) Viewed 17037 times

Unsurprisingly #3 is the lowest. This strategy takes no advantage of Kindling or CiS. Logically #1 would be better than #3 even if you only hit one cinder the entire fight. #1 sims the highest, but SimCraft assumes that out of 29 total casts all 6 cinders hit every time which I think would be very hard to accomplish in a real world fight. In my opinion, #2 is the best strategy. Sure, it doesn't take full advantage of Kindling but I think that the flexibility of this strategy will win out over #1 in almost all real world fights. The difference between #1 and #2 is only 2800 DPS (0.76%) and that's only if you hit every cinder perfectly which probably won't happen. Too much risk for too little reward.

Here are more details on each sim:

I edited the APL to do these comparisons. Here's what I changed from the default APL for each scenario:
1) No change
2) No change
3) actions+=/call_action_list,name=combustion_phase,if=cooldown.combustion.remains<=action.rune_of_power.cast_time+(!talent.kindling.enabled*gcd)&trinket.cooldown.remains==0|buff.combustion.up
4) Add these lines in the appropriate places actions.single_target+=/use_item,name=wriggling_sinew actions.rop_phase+=/use_item,name=wriggling_sinew

I simmed this with my character and my gear (60% crit), which I've posted below for reference:
head=collar_of_enclosure,id=134424,bonus_id=1727/1497/3336
neck=prydaz_xavarics_magnum_opus,id=132444,bonus_id=1811,gems=200int,enchant=mark_of_the_hidden_satyr
shoulders=amice_of_the_unfurling_tempest,id=134432,bonus_id=1727/1507/3337
back=winestained_mantle,id=142215,bonus_id=3453/1477/3336,enchant=200int
chest=belovirs_final_stand,id=133977,bonus_id=1811
wrists=snowdrift_bracers,id=141428,bonus_id=3466/1482/3336
hands=handwraps_of_delusional_power,id=138212,bonus_id=1805/1492/3336
waist=pliable_spider_silk_cinch,id=138217,bonus_id=1807/40/1477/3336
legs=bonespeaker_leggings,id=134218,bonus_id=3432/1522/3337
feet=crimson_woollined_slippers,id=139195,bonus_id=1805/1487
finger1=utgarde_royal_signet,id=133637,bonus_id=3412/1808/1507/3336,gems=150crit,enchant=200crit
finger2=seal_of_the_nazjatar_empire,id=134525,bonus_id=1727/1808/1497/3336,gems=150crit,enchant=200crit
trinket1=devilsaur_shockbaton,id=140030,bonus_id=3397/1502/3337
trinket2=wriggling_sinew,id=139326,bonus_id=1805/1507/3337
main_hand=felomelorn,id=128820,bonus_id=730,gem_id=139256/133768/139256/0,relic_id=1805:1487/3413:1507:3336/1805:1487/0
off_hand=heart_of_the_phoenix,id=133959
# Gear Summary
# gear_ilvl=868.25
# gear_stamina=22706
# gear_intellect=23334
# gear_crit_rating=12021
# gear_haste_rating=3632
# gear_mastery_rating=3359
# gear_versatility_rating=865

[Dreamstreak]

Bough is bugged if multiple people are using it in your raid. Whoever procs it first, the others add to the first one.

I doubt this. Have had attempts where both me and other Mage have similar bough damage.

It's bugged. As you said, you had attempts where both you and the other Mage have similiar Bough damage. But in the case where one of you does a lot of dmg, and the other almost nothing, are the tries where your trinket procced on top of the Proc from the other Mage.

So yeah, in a case were both of you have the same damage, you only had your own proc on it, or you alternated your procs unwillingly.

[Troopcsd]

But in the case where one of you does a lot of dmg, and the other almost nothing, are the tries where your trinket procced on top of the Proc from the other Mage.

This is a minor misconception. There is no "damage stealing" at play here, if there was it would be easy to see it on the logs by the damage numbers doing twice as much as they otherwise would.

There is indeed a bug though. It is simply that there can only be one Poisoned Dreams debuff on the target at any given time. Whether this means "yours procced but was wasted" or "yours can't proc" doesn't matter. If someone else gets their trinket proc first; yours can not proc during that period.

Some logs testing can be found here (30m dummy)(normal raid) where there is no overlap at any point. I'm yet to find any logs that have multiple Poisoned Dreams debuffs up at the same time but if anyone has any it would be good to see.

In the meantime, the best you can do is report it and pray for a quick fix - and don't have multiple people using this trinket where possible.

[mlvnk]

Hi, I got some questions about simulationcraft and its assumption for trinkets.
Apparently latest version simulationcraft indicated ill get 4k dps gain by replacing wriggling sinew (865) with aran ruby (860) for 1 target. My question is why do simulationcraft sim so high damage for aran ruby. What are the conditions require to have the same result as in simulationcraft. I do know why wriggling sinew is great when it is lined up with cooldowns but how bout aran ruby? Does simcraft basically treat it as fire and forget trinket or there is some trick to it to get it better than wriggling sinew in my case (for example using rune of power when flame wreathe proc??). Basically I'm trying to deduce of simcraft assumption match my playstyle and make an informed decision. I personally prefer wriggling sinew for the consistency in ST scenario. If Aran ruby is really that good, how do we play to the trinkets fullest potential.

Sorry for the bad English.

[ssviolett]

I am pretty sure Aran's Relaxing Ruby is the strongest available fire mage trinket in the game right now, I have an 875 one that I got on Tuesday. I have several 865-880 Trinkets (Sinew, Shock Baton, Bough, Spiked Tongue) and absolutely none of them come anywhere close to the output damage from the Rubys flame wreath proc - the Ruby is consistently double to triple the damage of any of them except for the bough which if it procs at the right time it can almost keep up. Despite SIMC telling me using it is a significant decrease inn DPS - this has not been my experience. It is often 15-25% of my total damage in fights. This week I decided to just use Bough and Ruby - the bough is inconsistent but if it procs at the right time its doing loads more damage than a well timed sinew. Anyone else have some experience with the Ruby trinket?

I second this. Today it did 11% of my total DPS in DTh+12 while Baton did less than 4% overall. Keep in mind that if you want this trinket to shine you have to have the chest from Nightbane. The question is what is the second trinket if you don't have Sinew? BTW on Shade of Xavius (single target) Ruby still did more damage than Baton (65 ruby vs 40 baton though)

[soduhs]

You absolutely do not need the chest from Nightbane for Aran's trinket to dominate any other trinket you are going to have as fire. The only real question, at this point, is whether to use Sinew or Bough as your second trinket. Personally I'm using the Bough, but if I had less than 60% crit, I would probably use the Sinew.

[Taelon]

I've been really curious how good the statstick Brinewater Slime from Helya for fire.
After finally figuring out the itemdescription for simcraft with a bit of help from Zulandia. I got the following code:

trinket1=brinewater_slime_in_a_bottle,id=142507,bonus_id=606,ilevel=870

Simming that in with my character i got some dissapoiting results. Starting to wonder if something was simmed wrong or this is correct and statsticks are just avarage good for mages.

sim_Taelon_ST_14nov2016.jpg (105.09 KiB) Viewed 16109 times

sim_Taelon_Stats_14nov2016.jpg (90.69 KiB) Viewed 16109 times

I even checked how much stats it vies. And simcraft gives the 870 version 1486 in and 1025 crit. Which is 20 rating more than the 870 mastery version we got yesterday as loot.

PS: im getting an error now with Brinewater 880 but it does that with any trinket last in the list to sim and it doesnt influence the result.

[Taelon]

2e bit. I was doubtfull about the strenght of bough ST. So i used plaguehive and bough last night. It's not a farm night so not sure if it skews it. But sofar i'm impressed bough is really strong for current raid.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/H7 ... 2&source=9

Will use that combo thursday as well for logs.

[Falq]

Brinewater have this benefit that from Mythic ToV you have guaranteed 895 ilvl, which is max. It will be quite hard to get higher ilvl on Aran's, or even Sinew so it's not like it won't be used

[Rinoa]

I have purged the thread of many questions which do not belong here. If you are unsure which trinkets you should use out of the ones you have available to you, create a thread in the Q&A forum. This thread is for discussion.

[broedrost]

Does Aran's really do that well on single target? ;o I've been running it in M+ and I feel like it won't do better than 865 Bough on single target