7.1.5 Secondary Stats nerf - can it break fire gameplay?

[Darkwraith01]

So I was reading on BlizzCon interviews, and one of the things I read on Wowhead kinda got me worried:

• * We really want a BIG ilvl upgrade that drops to be a true upgrade.

• * We are looking to narrow the gap between secondary stat balance.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=257423/bliz ... ass-mounts

Given all the history to how this kind of changes has influenced class/spec gameplay, I tend to be overly negative on the gameplay impacts on the short term.

Fire, in special, has a gameplay directly related to crit %. Blizzard has improved it's dependency over the years, adding passives, new talents, skills, etc, but it is still very strong and core to our gameplay.

Do we have any ideas, from other posts maybe, on how this can/will influence the spec in the near future?

[Kanariya]

At some point, it's inevitable we're going to get nerfed in regards to Crit somehow. Not sure if it'll happen in 7.1.5, or if they'll wait til 7.2. The real issue is whether or not they'll compensate the nerf mechanically. But at current rate, we'll wind up with 80%-90%+ Crit toward the end of the expansion, and I guarantee Blizz will never let that happen.

I do agree with them on ilvl upgrades. I'm sitting on gear that's well over 30 ilvls higher that just doesn't have enough stats to justify a crit loss. It's really stupid that this was allowed to happen.

[Rylai]

I definitely see the problem they're facing with iL upgrades.. I'm a somewhat casual mythic raider and I'm still wearing 2x845 rings (Vastly Oversized Ring, Gnawed Thumb Ring) because they're just insane for fire..

But by just nerfing crit without compensation, they would nerf fire as a whole and I don't know how I feel about that one.. Maybe they could re-introduce int on rings/necks again. Those are the slots having the most issues right now because they're just defined by secondary stats and other effects only providing stamina as main stat..

[Curnivore]

So I was reading on BlizzCon interviews, and one of the things I read on Wowhead kinda got me worried:

• * We really want a BIG ilvl upgrade that drops to be a true upgrade.

• * We are looking to narrow the gap between secondary stat balance.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=257423/bliz ... ass-mounts

Given all the history to how this kind of changes has influenced class/spec gameplay, I tend to be overly negative on the gameplay impacts on the short term.

Fire, in special, has a gameplay directly related to crit %. Blizzard has improved it's dependency over the years, adding passives, new talents, skills, etc, but it is still very strong and core to our gameplay.

Do we have any ideas, from other posts maybe, on how this can/will influence the spec in the near future?

Why would it be important? Crit is right now one of the most boring stats in the spec. Why? Because it's entirely irrelevant during Combustion in terms of how to rotate. Sure it makes it more convenient to rotate outside of it but that's where it ends.

[Covery]

So I was reading on BlizzCon interviews, and one of the things I read on Wowhead kinda got me worried:

• * We really want a BIG ilvl upgrade that drops to be a true upgrade.

• * We are looking to narrow the gap between secondary stat balance.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=257423/bliz ... ass-mounts

Given all the history to how this kind of changes has influenced class/spec gameplay, I tend to be overly negative on the gameplay impacts on the short term.

Fire, in special, has a gameplay directly related to crit %. Blizzard has improved it's dependency over the years, adding passives, new talents, skills, etc, but it is still very strong and core to our gameplay.

Do we have any ideas, from other posts maybe, on how this can/will influence the spec in the near future?

Why would it be important? Crit is right now one of the most boring stats in the spec. Why? Because it's entirely irrelevant during Combustion in terms of how to rotate. Sure it makes it more convenient to rotate outside of it but that's where it ends.

Well you are 95% of the time outside combustion. We definitelly need a convenient gameplay outside of combustion i don't imagine my self just spamming fire ball for 1'20 min between each combustion.
I don't care that our dps is low outside combustion, we are a bursting spec, but gameplay while waiting for our CD shall be enjoyable.

[Curnivore]

It has 15% uptime with an ~80% contribution to DPS. It is more convenient to Hot Streak! a lot because it allows more movement but it's not a requirement and there is Enhanced Pyrotechnics. You will not only be spamming Fireball for 80 seconds so that's a strawman exaggeration.

[Mage]

Crit is right now one of the most boring stats in the spec. Why? Because it's entirely irrelevant during Combustion in terms of how to rotate. Sure it makes it more convenient to rotate outside of it but that's where it ends.

RIght, cause versatility or haste are so much less boring

[Curnivore]

One could claim haste is less boring, in a spec that has 0 differences in rotation due to crit during cooldowns. Versatility helps on defense and offense but it's not even a stat in my mind. More like a "buff the character in total" stat, mainly created to accommodate things like the vantus runes and other situations that the dev team must balance the classes perfectly in terms of a secondary without looking at all into the nitty gritty.

[lowska]

Imho the best way to implement this would be other stats also giving a % of crit, similar to how DH get parry out of crit. With the proper number balancing it could easily be done.

[Glitzerbling]

There is no such thing as a boring sekundary stat. However Fire as a whole atm is competing w arcane for the most boring spec in the game.

Now to the sek stat nerf. Why doesnt Blizz nerf the conversion rates slightly. And then to compensate, that we stay relevant, make Critical mass give us crit from int instead of a multiplier on our critrating.

Tadaa, int is valueable again and crit loses one of its multipliers.

[shvndrgn]

I think the 4FB to GC Frost spec is way more boring than Fire or Arcane. Ret Paladin is also pretty simplistic. It's only fun because high stack Crusade is about as crazy burst-wise as Combustion.

[phasmy]

I don't think people are really trying to understand why this would be a good and necessary change. Right now gear upgrades are not as straightforward as take the higher iLevel item. Crit is way too important for Fire so we are pigeonholed to only taking gear with Crit because Int doesn't provide enough to compensate for a superior iLevel item with no Crit.

It's pretty crappy to keep seeing 870+ gear that isn't even an upgrade to 855-860 pieces because of our scaling. It's a pretty difficult problem to fix though. They would need to tweak Combustion or Critical Mass I think.

[ssviolett]

There is no such thing as a boring sekundary stat. However Fire as a whole atm is competing w arcane for the most boring spec in the game.

Now to the sek stat nerf. Why doesnt Blizz nerf the conversion rates slightly. And then to compensate, that we stay relevant, make Critical mass give us crit from int instead of a multiplier on our critrating.

Tadaa, int is valueable again and crit loses one of its multipliers.

Problem is that even with all recent nerfs our crit is way too high, already many people have it 70+, Blizzard have no other choice but to nerf it again, what is in my opinion is very frustrating :/ Fire mage was always problematic spec, even after almost complete rewamp they didnt solve this problem.

[Etazis]

There is no such thing as a boring sekundary stat. However Fire as a whole atm is competing w arcane for the most boring spec in the game.

Now to the sek stat nerf. Why doesnt Blizz nerf the conversion rates slightly. And then to compensate, that we stay relevant, make Critical mass give us crit from int instead of a multiplier on our critrating.

Tadaa, int is valueable again and crit loses one of its multipliers.

Problem is that even with all recent nerfs our crit is way too high, already many people have it 70+, Blizzard have no other choice but to nerf it again, what is in my opinion is very frustrating :/ Fire mage was always problematic spec, even after almost complete rewamp they didnt solve this problem.

Dont really think many people have 70+ crit.

[Frosted]

Imho the best way to implement this would be other stats also giving a % of crit, similar to how DH get parry out of crit. With the proper number balancing it could easily be done.

I think this just makes the problem worse.

We don't want to be tied to secondary stats in a world where higher ilvl items give progressively less secondary stats. They can nerf PI (the primary driver of crit being so strong), and re-tune us to let us scale more reasonably with ilvl in general through core spell coeff buffs.

[whisperingsage]

Int giving crit would probably be healthier (or main->secondary) than other secondaries giving crit.

But even then that'd be something that would need a lot of testing to balance.

[Rylai]

Problem is that even with all recent nerfs our crit is way too high, already many people have it 70+, Blizzard have no other choice but to nerf it again, what is in my opinion is very frustrating :/ Fire mage was always problematic spec, even after almost complete rewamp they didnt solve this problem.

Huh? Many Fire Mages already with 70+ Crit? With what kind of itemlevel? I got 877 with mostly Crit/X gear (1-2 slots with X/Crit) and I'll get with crit food to 61%. Maybe if you've EN mythic down and you're constantly finishing M+11 and beyond you MIGHT get to 70%, but I don't think there are a lot of people accomplishing that.