Fire Trinket Discussion Megathread

[mlvnk]

I posted the same question in the above but no one able to answer the reason why aran ruby is simming so high. Whether there is a certain playstyle involved in bringing out its fullest potential. Simcraft actually simmed my aran ruby 860 to be better than wriggling sinew 865. Anywya I have seen great result from using Aran ruby in EN although at this point I'm still not sure if sim is correct. At least for me it seems comparable to wriggling sinew power in longer fight when the proc rate averaged out

[Smaiki]

Bough is bugged if multiple people are using it in your raid. Whoever procs it first, the others add to the first one.

I doubt this. Have had attempts where both me and other Mage have similar bough damage.

It's bugged. As you said, you had attempts where both you and the other Mage have similiar Bough damage. But in the case where one of you does a lot of dmg, and the other almost nothing, are the tries where your trinket procced on top of the Proc from the other Mage.

So yeah, in a case were both of you have the same damage, you only had your own proc on it, or you alternated your procs unwillingly.

Unfortunately, this seems to be true. I got Bough yesterday in mythic and gave it a try for the heroic farm raid afterwards. A moonkin and I used the trinket and there was always only one damage source at a time.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XP ... slate=true" target="_blank

Or here on the Dragons of Nightmare with 3 people:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/V9 ... slate=true" target="_blank

They only overlap once @1:10 because one trinket procced on Taerar and the other on Ysondre.
I think this can't be random or bad luck, it's too obvious.

[Falq]

I checked my guild logs and can confirm that I've never seen damage on same target from w different trinket users

[Taelon]

Does Aran's really do that well on single target? ;o I've been running it in M+ and I feel like it won't do better than 865 Bough on single target

I havn't done any investigation on how realistic the sims are but their are twitch vids and stories about it being insane. Many others on this forum are discussing it but I havn't gotten around to it myself to read it all. (check 2 pages back)

Brinewater have this benefit that from Mythic ToV you have guaranteed 895 ilvl, which is max. It will be quite hard to get higher ilvl on Aran's, or even Sinew so it's not like it won't be used

i'll ad 895 version later/ but in a way that you need to compare that to 880 trinets of others. So you'd probably get a similiar result in difference as mine where you can compare 865/870 trinkets with an 880 Brine.

[willemh]

On the subject of Bough. I have good reasons to believe it works somewhat differently as described above (source: player from a top 10 guild).

The way he described it worked was the fact that other players can extend the duration of your trinket proc with their proc.

So instead of it being bad to use the trinket with multiple players in one raid (as in the situation described above) it is actually beneficial to use the trinket with multiple players to ensure the debuff stays at max stacks for the majority of the fight. The damage only shows on the player that initially procced the trinket, not for the players that refreshed it, but this interaction still makes it very beneficial to use it with multiple players. Ofcourse there is a certain diminish return at X amount of players using it where the loss of a procs from multiple people outweight the benefits of refreshing a 10 stack, so I'm not sure where the sweetspot would be. But I feel ~3 players should really be fine.

[Falq]

i'll ad 895 version later/ but in a way that you need to compare that to 880 trinets of others.

Yeah you are right, have to compare to 880 Sinew / 880 Bough / 880 Plaguehive in this case but Aran will fall down since higher ilvl is very hard to get. Not sure why you sim 870 version of EN trinkets, you can either get 865 or 880 without trinket, and if you exclude upgrades and take mythic trinkets into count Brinewater is let's say BiS. Quite sure you should use 880 Sinew / 880 Bough (but Bought is limited to one per raid) so if someone else already using it you can go for Brinewater

On the subject of Bough. I have good reasons to believe it works somewhat differently as described above (source: player from a top 10 guild).

The way he described it worked was the fact that other players can extend the duration of your trinket proc with their proc.

So instead of it being bad to use the trinket with multiple players in one raid (as in the situation described above) it is actually beneficial to use the trinket with multiple players to ensure the debuff stays at max stacks for the majority of the fight. The damage only shows on the player that initially procced the trinket, not for the players that refreshed it, but this interaction still makes it very beneficial to use it with multiple players. Ofcourse there is a certain diminish return at X amount of players using it where the loss of a procs from multiple people outweight the benefits of refreshing a 10 stack, so I'm not sure where the sweetspot would be. But I feel ~3 players should really be fine.

You are somewhat right. In my logs which I posted before, you can see unnatural trinket duration, like 43 secs or something so there is something strange going with it's duration. Problem is it's not beneficial at all, because it's too random. You can have 10 procs same second and if they refresh it you just lost 9 procs, because 9 of them do 0 dmg, and give you no duration gain at all because debuff is on full stack. If it would be on-use trinket, things would be different. Now in most cases it's bigger dps loss than gain.

[blackd89]

So i just got Ethereal urn trinket 895 ilvl from nightbane
it gives 1875 intellect and 1103 mastery
what do u guys think about it?

[Maywtf]

So i just got Ethereal urn trinket 895 ilvl from nightbane
it gives 1875 intellect and 1103 mastery
what do u guys think about it?

Always remember how secondary stats weights change due to targets present. Constant intellect is solid, and mastery scales out in AoE situations. It will probably not be the best choice in ST, but can be a pick in 2-3+ targets. It also has a pretty convenient fear removal. Good trinket for M+ overall.

[Devilsfury]

So basicly i've gotten a 880 urn.
My other trinkets are 865 Bough and 870 Sinew.
I simmed and it didn't sim higher than Bough, but it actually simmed higher than Sinew!
This was single target on a 210 sec fight. How reliable is that sim?

[Eyliria]

Aran's is absolutely mental for fights involving AoE.
Mage buddy has one and it does ~22% of his damage on Helya, and about the same on M+ trash.

He has the nightbane chestpiece, though, which empowers it - I am unsure what exactly the nightbane chest does to these items that have the mark of the raven... How are they empowered?

I have the other Kara trinket that releases a ball that does dmg to targets it passes through, and, I'm considering picking up Aran's and the nightbane chest for a M+ oriented build.

[Sosaria]

Aran's Ruby is BIS for Mythic+ runs. Nothing compares to it.

On single target fights, it's extremely random. Did Heroic Ursoc last night and I don't it proc even once. On Nythendra it doubled the damage of what I'd get had I used the Shock Baton.

[Naiyano]

Aran's Ruby is BIS for Mythic+ runs. Nothing compares to it.

On single target fights, it's extremely random. Did Heroic Ursoc last night and I don't it proc even once. On Nythendra it doubled the damage of what I'd get had I used the Shock Baton.

Yes it is. We have two fire mages in our raid and i like to compare my results with our other mage. Almost every fight one of us did three times the damage the other one did with this trinket. It seems totally random which one is the lucky one.

I also witnessed fights it didn't proc even once and others it did insane damage.

[Sosaria]

What I see with the Aran ruby is that I'm gambling with it for ST fights.

It -may- do an insane amount of damage, but I'd rather have the consistency of the Shock Baton, over the randomness of Aran and the loss of 3% of my crit (over shock baton).

[debil]

Why do you still use shock-baton? Its dps is not good @850 ilvl. Or you have 870-880ish one? Even Plaguehive which is quite easy to obtain deals a lot more damage (i have 880 one)

[Pank]

I passed on mythic plaguehive since it has haste but it's a very good trinket. Got a 865 one as well and it's proc was outperforming devilsaur s. baton by a small margin. The pure value of the baton if you don't have like a one in the world 860 one is in its crit.

The best results I'm currently having is with Aran 860 and wriggling sinew 865.

[Woke]

i'll ad 895 version later/ but in a way that you need to compare that to 880 trinets of others.

Yeah you are right, have to compare to 880 Sinew / 880 Bough / 880 Plaguehive in this case but Aran will fall down since higher ilvl is very hard to get. Not sure why you sim 870 version of EN trinkets, you can either get 865 or 880 without trinket, and if you exclude upgrades and take mythic trinkets into count Brinewater is let's say BiS. Quite sure you should use 880 Sinew / 880 Bough (but Bought is limited to one per raid) so if someone else already using it you can go for Brinewater

On the subject of Bough. I have good reasons to believe it works somewhat differently as described above (source: player from a top 10 guild).

The way he described it worked was the fact that other players can extend the duration of your trinket proc with their proc.

So instead of it being bad to use the trinket with multiple players in one raid (as in the situation described above) it is actually beneficial to use the trinket with multiple players to ensure the debuff stays at max stacks for the majority of the fight. The damage only shows on the player that initially procced the trinket, not for the players that refreshed it, but this interaction still makes it very beneficial to use it with multiple players. Ofcourse there is a certain diminish return at X amount of players using it where the loss of a procs from multiple people outweight the benefits of refreshing a 10 stack, so I'm not sure where the sweetspot would be. But I feel ~3 players should really be fine.

You are somewhat right. In my logs which I posted before, you can see unnatural trinket duration, like 43 secs or something so there is something strange going with it's duration. Problem is it's not beneficial at all, because it's too random. You can have 10 procs same second and if they refresh it you just lost 9 procs, because 9 of them do 0 dmg, and give you no duration gain at all because debuff is on full stack. If it would be on-use trinket, things would be different. Now in most cases it's bigger dps loss than gain.

The best bet is to target dummy test with Bough and figure out the uptime % that you have. Then multiply that figure by an amount that gets you closest to 100% and that is the number of players you would ideally want to have bough of corruption equipped during a raid.

[qaiga]

I'm not sure but why does my bough rarely procs on ST? I have an 880 bough but I tested it from time to time (dummies for some minutes) and I'm really not that impressed. My 860 arans performs better than it and I don't even have the nb chest yet.

[Sosaria]

The bough is extremely random. More random than Aran's ruby.

So random that Lexi from Method guild isn't using it.

Anyway, I switched to the Aran ruby 860 from my Shock Baton 845+stocket... Aran's ruby seems to be doing more damage through its procs but I can't tell whether that makes up the 3% crit loss, the subsequent combustion ignite loss, and the Shock procs.

[Tristful]

Haven't seen any discussions on Deteriorated Construct Core, I got a 875 one just now. Haven't simmed it. Thoughts?

[Mage]

My thought - sim it.