[7.2] Arcane Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

[seoh]

In my experience there is a sort of elusive "soft cap" for arcane. I find it somewhere between 12-15%, though I never pay too much attention that to be somewhere in that range. Arcane gearing also is pretty dependent on where you are ilvl wise. I think the basic idea is that you basically stick to int>mastery>crit>vers, while slowly getting a necessary 12-15% haste. Once you get to 870+ilvl, the weights are usually int>vers=crit=mastery>haste, so you just start looking for appropriate ilvl upgrades, especially because most of our weights are .90+, or better said, very close to intellect in value.

Also, I'm fairly certain that if you get legendary kilt, haste will be more valued since you more often reset quickening.

[mml]

Does someone have a simcraft for 7.1.5 NH trinkets for arcane ?
Will Guldan trinket + Erratic Metronome become a Bis for arcane. What about Helya statstik haste trinket

[Thermolysis]

Does anyone have any insight on Portable Manacracker? I got an 870 one last week and believe it scales with Ancient Power. I'm at 30% crit and feel like I get a good proc rate out of it but at the same time I have an 885 Bough of Corruption and an 880 Swarming Plaguehive. I've simmed myself and they are all pretty close but since Manacracker scales with AP would it be better in the long run?

Here's a link to my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/k ... sis/simple" target="_blank

[Frosted]

Updated to 7.1.5.

[Dikembe]

7.1.5 pots. DG still good if you have $$$

[Ddmagebags]

So it looks like we are moving to intellect trinkets.... that seems pretty cool I have a couple banked with decent ilevel.... those sims were run at night hold I levels so would it be safe to assume that if we are mid 880s the trinket rankings would be relatively the same?

[Laniarty]

Is Gravity Spiral really worse than the belt?

I was expecting it to be much better than it actually is...

[gurudox]

I'm guessing Gravity Spiral is lower because the ideal rotation can be completed easily with one charge of evocation, as long as you're taking care to dump your stacks. Overpowered really allows us to go through a burn phase with as little as 20% mana, and with arcane missiles doing more damage with amplification, we don't suffer too much through our conserve phases.

[Painphd]

Hey guys, don't know if this needs a fresh post or not, but i saw trinkets in the title and so it seemed suitable.

I noticed that the intellect trinkets seem to be simming quite well so i tried some of mine out for a run. I equipped an 870 Portable Manacracker and ran CoS 10 with approx 32% crit. Thing is, the trinket did nothing, here is the logs for the run:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LJ ... =2&fight=2" target="_blank

Anyone else finding this trinket to be a bit pants. I ran it again later in the night to give it another shot, but it was again terrible. I also tried Twisting Winds, but found that it did about as much damage as my Hidden Satyr neck enchant through the dungeon.

Cheers.

[Painphd]

I've been running with my 895 Twisting Wind as well, but certainly not for its damage. With almost 2,000 Intellect it's basically a glorified stat stick.

I get what you're saying, but actual stat sticks normally come with secondary stats too. Perhaps the combination of the extra secondary stats on a normal stat stick actually equates to an additional 0.25% damage that the passive of manacracker provided. It just seemed to be very low.

I ran the trinket through askmrrobot sim as well, and it appears these numbers are not some anomaly, it just does very little. Ahwell, im just disappointed because i was looking forward to a trinket that scaled with my arcane paragon levels

[Mythlos]

Hello. Thanks for all the work, but while looking at the simulation profiles I noticed a few things.

With OP, the sim is barraging 15 times a fight on average. With TF, it's 17 times a fight. I am certainly not barraging 15 times even on live. This should not be happening at all. They use Charged Up, which theoretically would give you around 7 Barrage dumps every 5 minutes. but they only cast it 6 times, with the 1st time presumably being at the beginning of the fight.

That's 9-11 extra Barrage casts on average that are unaccounted for, for a total of ~3-4 additional Barrages per 90s cycle on average. I'm not sure how many ABs the sim casts before it Barrages, but even with a 3 charge rotation (which takes 3*2.25/1.1 + 1.5/1.1 = 7.5s), that's around 30 seconds the sim is spending on conserve. That seems... odd.

The reason I say that is that these Barrages aren't justified by the sim being at low mana. The sims are in fact struggling to reach 10-20% mana. Furthermore, beyond the first Evocation at exactly 30 seconds, they're Evocating every 90 seconds (actually sometimes it's even 100s) despite the fact that the tier bonus provides Evocation reduction which would theoretically put Evocation on a ~60-70s cooldown with all the AMs you'll be casting.

So they're missing A LOT of high powered AB casts which cost a lot of mana but are affordable due to the tier set bonuses (and legendaries). This will affect all sim combinations, but those with TF are affected more due to how TF scales with charges. This may also have an impact on the value of Mastery as it also scales with charges.

So in short, it appears that the sims are not tuned to manage the tier bonuses as they are prematurely entering conserve phase when they shouldn't and as a result don't consume mana quickly enough before Evocation should come off cooldown to make use of the tier bonuses. This in turn reduces overall damage output, and has an impact on Mastery and TF's value.

[Sheph]

In the default APL I'm a little confused at the variable burn_phase_duration:

Code: Select all

actions+=/stop_burn_phase,if=prev_gcd.1.evocation&burn_phase_duration>gcd.max ... actions.init_burn+=/start_burn_phase,if=((cooldown.evocation.remains-(2*burn_phase_duration))%2<burn_phase_duration)|cooldown.arcane_power.remains=0|target.time_to_die<55

As I read it we shouldn't engage in burn phase before evocation is less than some estimated burn_phase_duration, but where do I see this estimate? I don't see it declared anywhere. Or is it simply a guard to ensure proper start/stop of the burn phases (which is whenever arcane power is ready?)

[m3nsky]

Am I this blind or is Ethereal Urn or Brinewater trinkets not in this list ?
Granted they are boring trinkets and nothing more than stat sticks but they simmed higher for me than others :/

[Grazer]

In the default APL I'm a little confused at the variable burn_phase_duration:

Code: Select all

actions+=/stop_burn_phase,if=prev_gcd.1.evocation&burn_phase_duration>gcd.max ... actions.init_burn+=/start_burn_phase,if=((cooldown.evocation.remains-(2*burn_phase_duration))%2<burn_phase_duration)|cooldown.arcane_power.remains=0|target.time_to_die<55

As I read it we shouldn't engage in burn phase before evocation is less than some estimated burn_phase_duration, but where do I see this estimate? I don't see it declared anywhere. Or is it simply a guard to ensure proper start/stop of the burn phases (which is whenever arcane power is ready?)

Well I think with Overpowered there is no need to delay your evo to be cast after your AP burn. Since you only need ~20% Mana for AP burn, you can basically always burn when off cooldown and you don't rely on using evo afterwards as much anymore.

So there is definetely room for improvement.

[Dikembe]

In the default APL I'm a little confused at the variable burn_phase_duration:

Code: Select all

actions+=/stop_burn_phase,if=prev_gcd.1.evocation&burn_phase_duration>gcd.max ... actions.init_burn+=/start_burn_phase,if=((cooldown.evocation.remains-(2*burn_phase_duration))%2<burn_phase_duration)|cooldown.arcane_power.remains=0|target.time_to_die<55

As I read it we shouldn't engage in burn phase before evocation is less than some estimated burn_phase_duration, but where do I see this estimate? I don't see it declared anywhere. Or is it simply a guard to ensure proper start/stop of the burn phases (which is whenever arcane power is ready?)

start_burn_phase records a time, then stop_burn_phase records another. burn_phase_duration is the length of time between those two, so burn_phase_duration is literally the length of the last burn phase.

[Ddmagebags]

Am I this blind or is Ethereal Urn or Brinewater trinkets not in this list ?
Granted they are boring trinkets and nothing more than stat sticks but they simmed higher for me than others :/

Does anyone have any insight on this?

[Kintoun]

Am I this blind or is Ethereal Urn or Brinewater trinkets not in this list ?
Granted they are boring trinkets and nothing more than stat sticks but they simmed higher for me than others :/

Does anyone have any insight on this?

I believe I saw Frosted state in discord that he didn't include them because they are boring stat sticks. TLDR is stat sticks are king now, and nearly always better than any On Use or proc based.

[broedrost]

Am I this blind or is Ethereal Urn or Brinewater trinkets not in this list ?
Granted they are boring trinkets and nothing more than stat sticks but they simmed higher for me than others :/

Does anyone have any insight on this?

I believe I saw Frosted state in discord that he didn't include them because they are boring stat sticks. TLDR is stat sticks are king now, and nearly always better than any On Use or proc based.

Wrong. The reason they are not on the list is because they are very simple to sim for yourself:)

[Antondias]

I agree with my fellow mage a couple of posts above, that you are better off fetching yourself a fat int trinket, that can benefit from traits. In addition to that, int is the highest stat for all mages in 7.1.5, so the benefits of stats alone is huge right now. Seeing 860 arcanocrystal chillin next to a god damn legendary trinket on sims proves this.

As you know, with Amplification, OP and RoP. Arcane mage has become the new old version of fire mage. Doing a high % of overall dmg during burst and trying to squeeze as many CDs and whatnot into AP, whilst doing less during conserve while building up for the next burst.

---> king of on-use items: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF0nt-2EH94" target="_blank
- This guy however, is even using sinew, and just look at that dmg man. This video alone had me confused regarding on-use trinkets for a while, but after a dusin rounds of sims, I have landed on stat-trinkets. Still, bursting 2m+ would be sexy though.

/Antondias-Silvermoon

[Frosted]

Hello. Thanks for all the work, but while looking at the simulation profiles I noticed a few things.

With OP, the sim is barraging 15 times a fight on average. With TF, it's 17 times a fight. I am certainly not barraging 15 times even on live. This should not be happening at all. They use Charged Up, which theoretically would give you around 7 Barrage dumps every 5 minutes. but they only cast it 6 times, with the 1st time presumably being at the beginning of the fight.

That's 9-11 extra Barrage casts on average that are unaccounted for, for a total of ~3-4 additional Barrages per 90s cycle on average. I'm not sure how many ABs the sim casts before it Barrages, but even with a 3 charge rotation (which takes 3*2.25/1.1 + 1.5/1.1 = 7.5s), that's around 30 seconds the sim is spending on conserve. That seems... odd.

The reason I say that is that these Barrages aren't justified by the sim being at low mana. The sims are in fact struggling to reach 10-20% mana. Furthermore, beyond the first Evocation at exactly 30 seconds, they're Evocating every 90 seconds (actually sometimes it's even 100s) despite the fact that the tier bonus provides Evocation reduction which would theoretically put Evocation on a ~60-70s cooldown with all the AMs you'll be casting.

So they're missing A LOT of high powered AB casts which cost a lot of mana but are affordable due to the tier set bonuses (and legendaries). This will affect all sim combinations, but those with TF are affected more due to how TF scales with charges. This may also have an impact on the value of Mastery as it also scales with charges.

So in short, it appears that the sims are not tuned to manage the tier bonuses as they are prematurely entering conserve phase when they shouldn't and as a result don't consume mana quickly enough before Evocation should come off cooldown to make use of the tier bonuses. This in turn reduces overall damage output, and has an impact on Mastery and TF's value.

This is a known problem. influxes of mana (especially RNG ones like AM) cause some struggles with the sim and it judging burn start times. There are a lot of optimizations in the current APL though, so it's a non-trivial task to make the sim more flexible while not also losing these optimizations.