[Advanced][ilvl 540-582] Visual Frost Guide 5.4

[Tiaitchsi]

Should you prioritize PBoI over Tempus Repit for LB refreshing/AT extendning?

[Soggs]

AT extending definitely, but since PBoI lasts 20s you have some room. For the pull glyphed IV should proc everything pretty fast.

Early LB refreshes are mostly worthless. The lost GCD and explosion negate most of the gains from snapshotting. You are fine with refreshing in the last 3s.

[Ochatach]

I'm currently running the 14242 haste build, I'm trying to maximize my DPS in heroic right now and I would love to know how I can increase dps further. I've read through the guide several times but I'd still like to ask what I should do considering my current gear.

[Komma]

I'm currently running the 14242 haste build, I'm trying to maximize my DPS in heroic right now and I would love to know how I can increase dps further. I've read through the guide several times but I'd still like to ask what I should do considering my current gear.

A good start would be to head over to the question forums, attach a parsed combat log and be specific with your questions! There's no "secret sauce" that we can tell you about to magically increase your DPS.

[Ochatach]

I'm currently running the 14242 haste build, I'm trying to maximize my DPS in heroic right now and I would love to know how I can increase dps further. I've read through the guide several times but I'd still like to ask what I should do considering my current gear.

A good start would be to head over to the question forums, attach a parsed combat log and be specific with your questions! There's no "secret sauce" that we can tell you about to magically increase your DPS.

Oh alright thanks

[Skil]

When going with this build:

"Alternative Recommendation: Go for 19347 haste for +8/+4 to NT/LB & +14/+5 NT/LB ticks during Hero/Meta, minimal single target loss for significant multitarget gain."

Is the rest of the AMR setup Mastery > Crit to 25% > Haste over cap?

[Akraen]

When going with this build:

"Alternative Recommendation: Go for 19347 haste for +8/+4 to NT/LB & +14/+5 NT/LB ticks during Hero/Meta, minimal single target loss for significant multitarget gain."

Is the rest of the AMR setup Mastery > Crit to 25% > Haste over cap?

Doesn't matter. If you want to split hairs then yes mastery > crit > added haste

[Tiaitchsi]

Update: Haste > Mastery (regardless of opinion) until 15697 Haste

New Recommendation: Get 15832 haste for +7 tick to NT (even when you don't use NT on fights, this is such an inconsequential loss by stepping up to the next breakpoint)

Alternative Recommendation: Go for 19347 haste for +8/+4 to NT/LB & +14/+5 NT/LB ticks during Hero/Meta, minimal single target loss for significant multitarget gain.

Psychological Trap: Stick to 14242 if it's a comfort thing for you, all of this is for minimal gains. Reports of massive DPS swings are not due to these stat changes.

Alright, now I'm confused.
Should you go for 15697 haste if one is using LB on all fights except Galakras?
15697 haste > mastery > crit > haste
?

[Akraen]

In true, honest, not-trying-to-be-offensive terms: what is confusing about what I said?

How do you take:
Get 15832 haste for +7 tick to NT (even when you don't use NT on fights, this is such an inconsequential loss by stepping up to the next breakpoint)

and turn it into:
Should you go for 15697 haste if one is using LB on all fights except Galakras?

I'm not asking to pick on you. I'm asking because I need to write posts that speak to a variety of English dialects, some native and very different, others second, third, fourth and so on languages. To me, the language is clear, but for a dozen PM's in my inbox I've ignored and a bunch of posters across several sites, I seem to still be confusing everyone.

[Tiaitchsi]

In true, honest, not-trying-to-be-offensive terms: what is confusing about what I said?

How do you take:
Get 15832 haste for +7 tick to NT (even when you don't use NT on fights, this is such an inconsequential loss by stepping up to the next breakpoint)

and turn it into:
Should you go for 15697 haste if one is using LB on all fights except Galakras?

I'm not asking to pick on you. I'm asking because I need to write posts that speak to a variety of English dialects, some native and very different, others second, third, fourth and so on languages. To me, the language is clear, but for a dozen PM's in my inbox I've ignored and a bunch of posters across several sites, I seem to still be confusing everyone.

No offense taken.
The confusing part was the "Update: .." followed by "New Recommendation: .."
But I've read up enough to understand that reaching 15832 is the preferred option.

Thanks for your response though.

[Akraen]

Good stuff!

I feel bad, I honestly do. As of Sunday afternoon I have 19 PMs on MMOC, 5 PMs on Icy Veins, 7 PMs here on AT, and 2 in-game mails that I have yet to reply to.

They are all basically asking me how to reforge/gem. I'm not complaining about people being confused, I'm wondering why I can't seem to get the message to be clear.

[Crabmodem]

I think that is throwing people off is you say get 15697 and then right after say get 15832 so they are asking which number is it.

[Skil]

Akraen, the work that yourself and the other mages on these sites is very much appreciated. I've been following your posts for the last 8-9 months and you've helped me numerous times, so thank you for that. Yourself or one of the admins also take the time to personally respond to each new comment, look through our gear, our logs and provide guidance so that we can continue to improve as frost mages. Honestly, thank you for that.

My personal opinion on the confusion seems to be that it's a new number, as for the longest time, we've been used to hearing:

- 14242k haste for 99.9% of all frost mages
- 19xxxk haste for the remaining 0.1%
- infinity haste for Akraen

Even though we're nearing the end of an expansion, it's great that yourself and the other admins continue to theorycraft, and give us new suggested builds to try out. You also could have taken the easy approach and said "alternate build: 15832 haste", without mentioning 15697, because as you and Drjay suggested, it's only an additional 135 haste for a nice dps increase on fights where you'll be using NT, but you took the time to explain both numbers, which added a layer of confusion for some of us. I personally enjoy reading the reasoning behind your suggestions, but I'm not sure if everyone has the time to do so. I'm not suggesting anyone is lazy, but I do take about 30 minutes before bed and read through the forums for updates on a nightly basis on my iPad. Not everyone has that luxury, and I can see how it can get overwhelming.

Finally, I believe that a lot of us aren't very familiar or at least entirely confident with setting AMR values, and I see you mention that in your post, referring to the PM's about reforging / gemming. It probably sounds silly for you to hear this, but AMR can be a little confusing to most of us. For example, I believe I have the correct settings in AMR for the Drjay's 15832 haste build, but per last reply on that thread, I'm not 100% sure I've set up AMR correctly. Your site is filled with great resources like boss-by-boss mage strategies, how to create dps logs, read them yourself, upload them, setting up macros, etc, but there isn't a quick how-to for setting up custom values in AMR, or a quick screenshot showing "this is your AMR settings for this build". Your visual guide does include values for the original 3 builds you suggested (Mastery / Haste / Mixture builds), but even there, I've seen questions posted because people weren't sure what to do with the other stats. I believe the guide only mentions haste / mastery / crit.

I apologize for the long read, but hopefully you see some value in this. Once again, thank you for everything you do for the frost mage community!

Good stuff!

I feel bad, I honestly do. As of Sunday afternoon I have 19 PMs on MMOC, 5 PMs on Icy Veins, 7 PMs here on AT, and 2 in-game mails that I have yet to reply to.

They are all basically asking me how to reforge/gem. I'm not complaining about people being confused, I'm wondering why I can't seem to get the message to be clear.

[Tiaitchsi]

Akraen, the work that yourself and the other mages on these sites is very much appreciated. I've been following your posts for the last 8-9 months and you've helped me numerous times, so thank you for that. Yourself or one of the admins also take the time to personally respond to each new comment, look through our gear, our logs and provide guidance so that we can continue to improve as frost mages. Honestly, thank you for that.

My personal opinion on the confusion seems to be that it's a new number, as for the longest time, we've been used to hearing:

- 14242k haste for 99.9% of all frost mages
- 19xxxk haste for the remaining 0.1%
- infinity haste for Akraen

Even though we're nearing the end of an expansion, it's great that yourself and the other admins continue to theorycraft, and give us new suggested builds to try out. You also could have taken the easy approach and said "alternate build: 15832 haste", without mentioning 15697, because as you and Drjay suggested, it's only an additional 135 haste for a nice dps increase on fights where you'll be using NT, but you took the time to explain both numbers, which added a layer of confusion for some of us. I personally enjoy reading the reasoning behind your suggestions, but I'm not sure if everyone has the time to do so. I'm not suggesting anyone is lazy, but I do take about 30 minutes before bed and read through the forums for updates on a nightly basis on my iPad. Not everyone has that luxury, and I can see how it can get overwhelming.

Finally, I believe that a lot of us aren't very familiar or at least entirely confident with setting AMR values, and I see you mention that in your post, referring to the PM's about reforging / gemming. It probably sounds silly for you to hear this, but AMR can be a little confusing to most of us. For example, I believe I have the correct settings in AMR for the Drjay's 15832 haste build, but per last reply on that thread, I'm not 100% sure I've set up AMR correctly. Your site is filled with great resources like boss-by-boss mage strategies, how to create dps logs, read them yourself, upload them, setting up macros, etc, but there isn't a quick how-to for setting up custom values in AMR, or a quick screenshot showing "this is your AMR settings for this build". Your visual guide does include values for the original 3 builds you suggested (Mastery / Haste / Mixture builds), but even there, I've seen questions posted because people weren't sure what to do with the other stats. I believe the guide only mentions haste / mastery / crit.

I apologize for the long read, but hopefully you see some value in this. Once again, thank you for everything you do for the frost mage community!

Good stuff!

I feel bad, I honestly do. As of Sunday afternoon I have 19 PMs on MMOC, 5 PMs on Icy Veins, 7 PMs here on AT, and 2 in-game mails that I have yet to reply to.

They are all basically asking me how to reforge/gem. I'm not complaining about people being confused, I'm wondering why I can't seem to get the message to be clear.

Thumbs up for this post.
Akraen (and everyone else that has contributed to this forum), I really do appreciate the kind of assistance you've given me and others. I would probably just have followed this stat priority
Intellect > Spell Hit (15%) > Haste > Mastery > Crit (23%)
Regardless of item level.
Once again, thank you, and everyone else, for helping me get a better grip on the mage class.

[Akraen]

I'll see if I can clarify AMR values a bit more. That was helpful feedback - thank you

[Crabmodem]

Akraen (and everyone else that has contributed to this forum), I really do appreciate the kind of assistance you've given me and others. I would probably just have followed this stat priority
Intellect > Spell Hit (15%) > Haste > Mastery > Crit (23%)
Regardless of item level.
Once again, thank you, and everyone else, for helping me get a better grip on the mage class.

The problem with this is it doesn't work for all ilvls.

[johndavidson806]

OK, first post.
Been following this for a while now on here and on Icyviens.

Much math and much more knowledge about FM's than i know what to do with.

So..here we go.

I can get to 15832 haste fairly easily and can also get to 19347 if i just gem QSR's like a madman.
Do I? or do i stick to 15832?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/l ... s/advanced" target="_blank
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/l ... ger/litmus" target="_blank

I've also taken to using NT due to the improved haste on multitargets and it's an impressive change to say the least.

Any pointers would be appreciated. And thanks for an excellent website.

[durrtygoodz]

High haste such as 18960 and 19347 have been completely ruled out. The haste point to reach is 15832 before going full mastery. 15697 is technically the number where mastery starts pulling ahead but 15832 is the next NT breakpoint which means you can reforge slightly up to that for an increase on multi target. You may as well just stay there full time.

[johndavidson806]

Cheers for the quick reply. It's interesting that the higher HBP's are discussed but seem to be pointless (almost).

[durrtygoodz]

Cheers for the quick reply. It's interesting that the higher HBP's are discussed but seem to be pointless (almost).

19340 was brought up when people thought snapshotting was a big dps increase, and before we had a working SimC APL. So now a few things are different than they were a few months ago.