7.1.5 - Arcane Mage Guide - Updated: 02-16-2017

[x1xruex1x]

So, I want to know if others are experiencing the same thing I'm seeing:

When I'm trying my DPS on a dummy or in a live environment, it looks like after the AP burn is done the DPS meters seems to quickly decay, even while casting. I know that drop off is commonplace, but even during non burn parts far out from the burn I keep seeing this occur.

Seems to drop in patches of 15-20~ in a half a second almost and only dps once a hit is performed.

I know that the logic is you're not casing so it should go down, but it looks like it's dropping a lot more aggressively than pre 7.1.5

So yea, just seems a bit weird and I wonder if it's solely to do with our hindered cast speeds due to lack of haste.

Let me know if I'm just going insane or if it's something y'all are noticing too.

[Asara]

I do feel kinda cheated though, because in the early patch 7.1.5 notes, fire was getting a huge nerf and arcane was getting a huge buff, but now that the patch is actually here fire didnt get nerfed at all and arcane just got a slight buff. granted, the 100% overpowered and 500% orb was a bit too much, but fire not getting super tuned down feels weird.

Everyone expected frost and arcane to top charts now, or atleast beat fire, and if that isnt the case in nighthold id feel bad

[Haruichi]

• What is your favorite talent build in 7.1.5 so far?
• Can you post screenshots of your talents & character sheet?
• What is your rotation like?
• Does it require a specific legendary?
• What's your DPS like in a roughly 5-minute fight?

Thanks for the great work you've done.

Basics
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... chi/simple
Ilvl 869. I don't have any Arcane legendaries. 1 in total: Marquee.

Latest Patchwerk Sim and Stat Weights.

Talents and char screen are included in screenshots below.

Rotation with RoP/Ero/OP:

1. AP Burn
AC4>MoA>RoP>AP: AB>AM when at AM2.

2. Mini Burn
AM2>RoP>AM>AB>Evo

3. Conserve
AB>AM>ABarr>[AC4>AM<ABarr]

4. Mini Burn (During conserve)
Build to AM2 and AC4>MoA>RoP>AMx2>AM>AB until I can't fit another cast into RoP >ABarr

5. Conserve
[AC4>AM<ABarr]

Repeat 1.

Tests
I've run a number of tests today:

Above build and rotation; flask and Mastery food. Without pots. Without Timewarp.

I ran 2 more tests, same build.

245 secs: 396K dps.
235 secs: 393K dps.

With Pot + Timewarp:

-------
Additional tests:

Temporal Flux. Without Pot. Without Timewarp.

403 secs: 379K dps.
405 secs: 348K dps.

With MI/OP. Without Pot. Without Timewarp.

372 secs: 332K dps. (Messed up rotation pretty badly on this one).

With IF/OP

237 secs: 358K dps.

Key take-aways
I produce the best results with RoP/OP.
Largest impact on dps by far: Number of AM procs.

[x1xruex1x]

• What is your favorite talent build in 7.1.5 so far?
• Can you post screenshots of your talents & character sheet?
• What is your rotation like?
• Does it require a specific legendary?
• What's your DPS like in a roughly 5-minute fight?

Thanks for the great work you've done.

Basics
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... chi/simple
Ilvl 869. I don't have any Arcane legendaries. 1 in total: Marquee.

Latest Patchwerk Sim and Stat Weights.

SimC.png

Talents and char screen are included in screenshots below.

..........

237 secs: 358K dps.

Key take-aways
I produce the best results with RoP/OP.
Largest impact on dps by far: Number of AM procs.

@Haruichi,

Thank you for the detailed results ^_^ I appreciate it.

One thing I'd like to suggest to see if it actually impacts your output at all. try this, instead of your opening going the way you do, postpone it until you have 8 stacks of Erosion (around 50% mana) and only casting AM when maxed stack.

It'd look something like this:

• Start of Fight
• AB repeating
  IF AM hits 3 stacks, then AM,..else keep AB'ing
  Erosion hits 8 stacks roughly around 50% if only AB's were cast.
  You should have 2~ AM as long as you're not unlucky.
• Begin burn like around @ 50% mana~ w/ 8 Erosion stacks.
• MoA > RoP >Arcane Missiles! (not AP) until cleared > Arcane Power > AB-spam unless 3 AM, then cast 1 AM and continue AB [/color](Work your Presence of Mind into this to ensure as many AB [/color]get pushed into AP).

That's basically the gist of the burn phase rework that I'm trialing. In my test I got 851k dps during that time and 700's shortly after. However, DPS decay is huge with Arcane right now, so maintaining 350-400k dps is a chore but can be done as your average when you complete a 4-5 minute fight.

I've actually just finished recording a video and voice-over for my Arcane 7.1.5 Discussion, and will be working on editing that tonight and into tomorrow. Hopefully will have it uploaded as soon as possible ^_^

Either way, let me know if the burn rework I mentioned helps at all.

[Cauldron]

arcane missiles are the best spell we have, hit hard and cost nothing.
Arcane blast has double chance to proc arcane missiles
Both arcane missiles and blast benefits of our mastery, more arcane charge more damage.
So i was toying with this idea: a temporal flux build all built on mastery and crit. You can cast fast and more blast, higher chance of missiles and with high mastery a good mana recovery during missiles cast and usual raid downtime (movement etc). Is it possible or it's plain wrong?

[Mage]

Let me know if I'm just going insane or if it's something y'all are noticing too.

Does it matter what happens after 15 seconds of a 5 minute dummy test?

[Visk]

So, I want to know if others are experiencing the same thing I'm seeing:

When I'm trying my DPS on a dummy or in a live environment, it looks like after the AP burn is done the DPS meters seems to quickly decay, even while casting. I know that drop off is commonplace, but even during non burn parts far out from the burn I keep seeing this occur.

Seems to drop in patches of 15-20~ in a half a second almost and only dps once a hit is performed.

I know that the logic is you're not casing so it should go down, but it looks like it's dropping a lot more aggressively than pre 7.1.5

So yea, just seems a bit weird and I wonder if it's solely to do with our hindered cast speeds due to lack of haste.

Let me know if I'm just going insane or if it's something y'all are noticing too.

I had the exact same situation happening yesterday. I was on the dummy while I did a 3AM with ROP rotation and after the ROP finished I noticed I was about 420K DPS, after that I started casting AB and for the ~1.9s cast my DPS dropped to 280k. I also noticed though, that while doing DMG nonstop to the dummy for like 3x AP/RoP rotations in a row it reset on its own at some point (which I did not catch in the act) and I ended up with like 15m DMG done or something. It looks like an addon problem to me, even though I updated Skada after 7.1.5 came out.

[x1xruex1x]

So, I want to know if others are experiencing the same thing I'm seeing:

When I'm trying my DPS on a dummy or in a live environment, it looks like after the AP burn is done the DPS meters seems to quickly decay, even while casting. I know that drop off is commonplace, but even during non burn parts far out from the burn I keep seeing this occur.

Seems to drop in patches of 15-20~ in a half a second almost and only dps once a hit is performed.

I know that the logic is you're not casing so it should go down, but it looks like it's dropping a lot more aggressively than pre 7.1.5

So yea, just seems a bit weird and I wonder if it's solely to do with our hindered cast speeds due to lack of haste.

Let me know if I'm just going insane or if it's something y'all are noticing too.

I had the exact same situation happening yesterday. I was on the dummy while I did a 3AM with ROP rotation and after the ROP finished I noticed I was about 420K DPS, after that I started casting AB and for the ~1.9s cast my DPS dropped to 280k. I also noticed though, that while doing DMG nonstop to the dummy for like 3x AP/RoP rotations in a row it reset on its own at some point (which I did not catch in the act) and I ended up with like 15m DMG done or something. It looks like an addon problem to me, even though I updated Skada after 7.1.5 came out.

@Visk,

Maybe it's just something with the way logs are calculating data for DPS? Who knows. I'm kind of steering towards the amount of damage actually done during a 5 minute fight now (to answer the previous poster's comment). So using a target dummy for 5 minutes and seeing how the damage output sizes up I feel will be a bit more enticing. DPS is nice, but it doesnt mean what you actually did.

[x1xruex1x]

arcane missiles are the best spell we have, hit hard and cost nothing.
Arcane blast has double chance to proc arcane missiles
Both arcane missiles and blast benefits of our mastery, more arcane charge more damage.
So i was toying with this idea: a temporal flux build all built on mastery and crit. You can cast fast and more blast, higher chance of missiles and with high mastery a good mana recovery during missiles cast and usual raid downtime (movement etc). Is it possible or it's plain wrong?

@Cauldron,

Give this a shot, and let me know how you feel about the output. I'm kind of coming to the conclusion that the DPS amount isn't going to be the number we're fishing for, but instead just the overall amount of damage done.

I dont' see why this wouldnt work, but if you may, share a build idea that you're aiming your talents around.
I dabbled with TF, NT, and Arcane Familiar on Guarm and was met with luke warm results.

[Kythos]

@rue
for Guarm I would try Amp, Slip, RoP, CU, Chrono, ErSN, OP
barrage when you need to move, CU, AM. get in color, Rune burn.

prepot, MoA, CU. RoP, AP, PoM ABAB, -AM/B/s op ---- cu rune lust opening?

[x1xruex1x]

@rue
for Guarm I would try Amp, Slip, RoP, CU, Chrono, ErSN, OP
barrage when you need to move, CU, AM. get in color, Rune burn.

prepot, MoA, CU. RoP, AP, PoM ABAB, -AM/B/s op ---- cu rune lust opening?

@Kythos,

I'll give this a whirl when I try Guarm again (altho depending what transpires with Nighthold that may not be for a bit if Nighthold goes well for us).

[x1xruex1x]

Finally had a chance to finalize my video today. Got it trimmed down a bit and edited up.

New Video Link: https://youtu.be/XLmXA4sd1lg

[Haruichi]

@Haruichi,

Thank you for the detailed results ^_^ I appreciate it.

One thing I'd like to suggest to see if it actually impacts your output at all. try this, instead of your opening going the way you do, postpone it until you have 8 stacks of Erosion (around 50% mana) and only casting AM when maxed stack.

It'd look something like this:

• Start of Fight
• AB repeating
  IF AM hits 3 stacks, then AM,..else keep AB'ing
  Erosion hits 8 stacks roughly around 50% if only AB's were cast.
  You should have 2~ AM as long as you're not unlucky.
• Begin burn like around @ 50% mana~ w/ 8 Erosion stacks.
• MoA > RoP >Arcane Missiles! (not AP) until cleared > Arcane Power > AB-spam unless 3 AM, then cast 1 AM and continue AB [/color](Work your Presence of Mind into this to ensure as many AB [/color]get pushed into AP).

That's basically the gist of the burn phase rework that I'm trialing. In my test I got 851k dps during that time and 700's shortly after. However, DPS decay is huge with Arcane right now, so maintaining 350-400k dps is a chore but can be done as your average when you complete a 4-5 minute fight.

I've actually just finished recording a video and voice-over for my Arcane 7.1.5 Discussion, and will be working on editing that tonight and into tomorrow. Hopefully will have it uploaded as soon as possible ^_^

Either way, let me know if the burn rework I mentioned helps at all.

I'll try to run a few tests today. My initial thoughts, however, are that delaying your AP burn that much will make it become too much out of sync with initial trinket procs and have an adverse effect on the follow-up RoP mini burn. Let's see, though.

[m3nsky]

Finally had a chance to finalize my video today. Got it trimmed down a bit and edited up.

New Video Link: https://youtu.be/XLmXA4sd1lg

Cool Vid dude!
I'm talking exclusively Mythic content though when it comes to bottom damage, I can rank in Normal/Heroic np, but only cuz the fights are so damn short and you overgear it or can cheese it, like Cenarius 50sec fight where you simply burn twice.

I assume you mean this guy Vizzard from the vid:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8q ... amage-done" target="_blank
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8q ... e&source=3" target="_blank

The dude is 889 ilvl and in normal Helya, doesn't exactly represent a raider in "normal difficulty" so already you see its overgearing by a large margin so all the numbers are inflated.
50% of his damage is from AE on Helya, he spikes to 2M and to 4M DPS respectively when the trash adds spawn.
Has nothing to do with normal gameplay just padding for the meters to rank.
He boosts his AOE even more by using Sephuz Secret instead of his Kilt/Rhonin combo to nova the adds to gain extra haste for the AE spam.

Unfortunately he or his guild at this point only have Heroic Logs online even though they have killed Mythic Helya twice by now. I am hoping they upload a log of Mythic ToV because SNF is a very good guild in the US.

As of warcraftlogs not representing cuz it is early, yes I agree with you, it is early and yes there are more fire mage than arcane mage parses however you are still comparing 1 guy who shouldn't be in that encounter, so 1 log to 678 parses thus far.

Is there any Mythic raiding arcane mage, preferably on progress, but any will do, that feels arcane is fine ?
Would love to see logs to analyze what to do better, watch the warcraftlogs replay, check casts, where and when the damage is done.

Here's to the future, set boni, better legendaries and that Nighthold will change it \o/

[Haruichi]

@Haruichi,

Thank you for the detailed results ^_^ I appreciate it.

One thing I'd like to suggest to see if it actually impacts your output at all. try this, instead of your opening going the way you do, postpone it until you have 8 stacks of Erosion (around 50% mana) and only casting AM when maxed stack.

Ran some tests today.

Crux of the tests: Get to 8 Ero stacks before commencing AP burn.

Ilvl 869. No arcane legendaries. Flask. Mastery Food. Without Pot. Without Timewarp.

1) 249 sec: 347K dps.
2) 231 sec: 379K dps.
3) 232 sec: 373K dps.
4) 244 sec: 361K dps.
5) 237 sec: 416K dps.

The 3 tests with normal AP Burn from yesterday:

1) 245 secs: 396K dps.
2) 235 secs: 393K dps.
3) 227 secs: 404K dps.

Key take-aways:

- At my mastery level 33%, using AB to get to 8 Ero stacks entail a significant risk of messing with your mini burn and having to postpone it to after the first Evo.

- If you choose this approach, stop AB'ing at 7 Ero stacks; it seems MoA might apply the last one.

- AM will get you to 8 Ero stakcs much faster since each missile apply a stack. The bests results I got was using a proc'ed AM at around 3 Ero stacks, depending on procs, of course, thus getting to Ero8 faster.

- In Test no. 5 I used this approach, and also, everything just clicked. AM procs like I've rarely seen. My AP Burn>Mini Burn went on for so long I went straight to next AP burn.

- All things told, if you're at my mastery level (still, relatively low) I doubt waiting for Ero8 will net better results than commencing AP burn as soon as you AC4>MoA>RoP.

[jimmyo]

Regarding 8-stack Erosion: MoA stacks it to 6 before the explosion already. Throw in ABs and you are at 8 before it explodes. That is all that matters. If you are using resonance, 4 AB -> MoA -> RoP -> AP -> ABhas you at 7 already.. Don't worry about it. Get MoA, RoP, and AP on CD as early as possible.

[x1xruex1x]

@Haruichi & Jimmyo,

So I see what you're saying, and I want to try some tests myself in the same manner you are.
I'm sitting around 51/52% mastery when I'm fully buffed (Flask & Food) setting.

I definitely feel like I've been able to push more damage with my delayed initial burn phase. Yup, I'm aware that AM stacks up Ero very fast since each missile proc's x1 Ero. Same with Jimmyo's note about MoA. However, I feel like if you have 8% and then do AM or MoA, it hits all the harder. Kind of in the same nature that AM proc's AC charges, but you try to build the charges by using AB or AE since you get more bang for your buck by using AM with 4 AC, as opposed to the ramp up.

You can do this in either fashion, and in the end it does come down to how well it works for your own tests and runs. What works for one may not be functional for another. Each of our toons handle slightly different due to gear and stat differences, let alone our own reaction times and play styles.

So yea, I think what you guys noted is well and good, and I want to test it out more appropriately against the delayed ini.burn. No harm in having multiple rotations to choose from right?


@M3nsky,

Thank you for the clarification. I had no idea you were comparing against the Mythic raiders primarily. I personally stick to Normal mode just because it's the boundaries i play within in my guild. I can definitely see how in a Mythic environment things would be completely different and that Arcane may be struggling. I've seen some of the mechanics to those fights...y'all can keep em. I don't want them.

Right now it seems that in a pristine scenario, we're doing extremely well, but in a live scenario we're struggling to maintain competitive composures with the best of them. Doesn't mean that we suck.

If 500k dps is bottom of the barrel right now, but in 7.1 it was top of the line (just speaking theoretically here, not real numbers), then yea it may suck that we're not on top, but we're still better than we were. Granted it's the way WoW works sadly. New today, old tomorrow, and back and forth.

Either way, we're all here for a reason, and that's to find out the best way to handle the Arcane, and I think we're making strides with it by discovering both the good and the bad. Hell, I've learned a few new things along the way that I wasn't aware was even in 7.1 You can say I just L2P'd within this past week :-p


Anywho, I continue to thank you all for your feedback and contributions ^_^ y'all are a great community, I tell ya that!

[jimmyo]

Considering you are at over 50% mastery (I have tried to stay around 30%, will drop a lot if I ever get kilt, helm, bracers or even belt), my guess is the total benefit you see is not the extra 1-4% on a few attacks you are getting, but rather that you are regenerating so much mana during AP that you need to burn longer before your initial cd phase. If I start AP at 90% mana, I typically come out of it at 85%. You are likely gaining mana during AP.

[mythaelar]

I have the kilt. Is the main idea of not stacking mastery with kilt to take charged up and burn -> evo -> burn -> barrage -> CU -> barrage? I haven't found charged up that useful but maybe its because I need to replace some of my mastery gear.

[x1xruex1x]

@Jimmyo,

Yea, during AP I see my mana creep on up with fair speed behind it.