7.1.5 - Arcane Mage Guide - Updated: 02-16-2017

[Visk]

So guys I want to ask a direct question to everyone - do you think arcane will be viable in a mythic progression environment (I am in a semi-hardcore guild which will aim for mythic progress as soon as possible, but without the stress of top ranks)? I am still catching up on AP and iLvL as I have a break of WoW because of exams, but that will not be an issue. I already have 2 legendaries for the spec (bracers and belt). Should I change my loot to fire in case arcane is not doing well and/or the encounters themselves are not very good for arcane (adds, cleave, aoe required)?

Another question is what stats should I prioritize having in mind the 2 legendaries?

Thank you in advance

[x1xruex1x]

@Visk,

I wish I could be of more assistance on this. Being that I don't have either of those legendaries, it's hard for me to develop an idea of your stat priorities.

As for being viable in mythic progression, it's hard to say. I've checked Warcraftlogs.com to see where they stand in Mythic top 100, but I'm not seeing any arcane anywhere, not even 5 pages in.

Sad to say but if you're in a mythic progression environment, and there's any hint of hardcore, then if your numbers don't match up with the expected numbers necessary to complete the fight fluently, then you may be disappointed.

I think that Arcane is still being learned though, so it's not an accurate representation of our abilities as we haven't really figured them out yet 100%.

If you want to have an easier time with less need to worry about the dps in that environment you have, then I'd suggest fire. If you think you can keep up with the rest of your group as to not bring an eye to your dps and question your ability, then stick to your guns with arcane.

Don't get me wrong, im not saying your group is a bunch of hard butts who are out to have your head. I've been in a hardcore raiding environment long ago, and it's something I'm familiar with as I have friends in hardcore raiding environments. It's a "do what's needed to get the job done" type scenario. If Arcane doesn't cut it for their needs, then find what does.

By no means am I saying that Arcane is substandard and not able to keep up, but one thing to consider is that in the log environment, some magi may have just stuck to fire or whatever role they saw as being the most capable of pushing out the damage to meet their needs. They may not be playing arcane and giving the spec a proper representation out of fear of it not functioning to the standards needed for mythic progression.

either way. if you are concerned or worried about performance, have a backup plan with some spare gear that can compete with what you have. If you've been running arcane regularly, then i'd say set your loot preference to fire and get some gear there as soon as you can so you can compensate and not be far behind if you should need to switch over. In the meanwhile, keep checking in here and seeing if there's been any solid developments.

Good luck with your choice and scenario Visk

[jimmyo]

I have the kilt. Is the main idea of not stacking mastery with kilt to take charged up and burn -> evo -> burn -> barrage -> CU -> barrage? I haven't found charged up that useful but maybe its because I need to replace some of my mastery gear.

Mastery just isn't a very good stat in terms of DPS output for Arcane. It takes 666 mastery to get 1% more damage from Arcane Blast/Missiles/Explosion. By comparison, it takes 400 critical strike to get 1% crit (ever-so-slightly less than 1% total damage increase) and 475 versatility to get 1% more damage done.

Mastery's primary role is to provide you with more mana, and as a result, more Arcane Blasts with 4 Arcane Charges. At 8147 (34% mastery), a 4-charge Arcane Blast costs about 13.4% of my maximum mana. If I start with 100% mana and 4 charges, never use Arcane Missiles, and spam Arcane Blast without using Overpowered, I run out of mana after 9 Arcane Charges (I finished at 3% mana, so I regenerated about 24% of my mana).

At 4041 mastery (21.7%), a 4-charge Arcane blast costs 14.8% of my maximum mana. With 0 AM usage, 4-Arcane Charges, and 100%, I can use Arcane Blast 8 times before I run out of mana (I finish at 3% mana, which means I regenerated about 21% of my maximum mana over the first 7 casts).

By comparison, the kilt regenerates 12% mana each time you use barrage with 4-stacks. That 12% mana would be enough to give me a 9th max AC Arcane Blast at 21.7% mastery (this does not account for the mana spent getting to 4 ACs obviously). Not only do I get 1 extra Arcane Blast per Mana bar, I get an Arcane Barrage out of it that does the equivalence of about 75% of an Arcane Blast. Thus, the kilt gives you approximately 1.75 Arcane Blasts per mana bar, where-as 4000 mastery gives only 1 Arcane Blast. Since the Kilt provides better Damage Per Mana than mastery does, you could reallocate those mastery points towards crit or versatility, which give more raw damage increase.

Now, as for your question about Charged Up. Charged Up means that you can use 1 Arcane Barrage every 40 seconds without suffering the penalty of having to rebuild AC. Thus, Charged up gives 12% mana without having to rebuild your Arcane Charges. Now you're getting not only an extra Barrage every 40 seconds, but you're also getting an extra Arcane Blast out of it. Barrage -> CU -> Blast -> Barrage -> Build Phase = 10% mana back and the damage equivalence of roughly 2.5 Arcane Blasts.

You can still use Resonance and just Barrage -> Build Phase. You'll still get 12% of your mana back, but you are only doing the equivalence of about 1 Arcane Blast in order to do it (but it would be better on Cleave/AoE).

So guys I want to ask a direct question to everyone - do you think arcane will be viable in a mythic progression environment (I am in a semi-hardcore guild which will aim for mythic progress as soon as possible, but without the stress of top ranks)? I am still catching up on AP and iLvL as I have a break of WoW because of exams, but that will not be an issue. I already have 2 legendaries for the spec (bracers and belt). Should I change my loot to fire in case arcane is not doing well and/or the encounters themselves are not very good for arcane (adds, cleave, aoe required)?

Another question is what stats should I prioritize having in mind the 2 legendaries?

Thank you in advance

1) Arcane's damage potential in mythic progression is an unnecessary consideration for the guild you describe (similar to mine, we're 7/7M, 2/3M, but likely won't try Helya again anytime soon). Binkenstein once said, and I agree with him, regarding Elemental Shaman that viability is only of importance if you're in the upper most echelon of progression. Right now, all three mage specs look like they are undertuned. Top guilds are going to stack classes that deal more damage (warlocks, melee, shadow priests, etc). But as long as you are doing competitive dps with the rest of the guild, it shouldn't matter to you whether you're playing the flavor of the month class or not. And if you're a better arcane mage than a fire mage (and you enjoy arcane more than you enjoy fire), by all means play arcane.

2) As far as fight mechanics, Arcane has plenty of tools for Mythic raiding. While we don't have Fire's burst AoE from Living Bomb, we have a very good sustained AoE with Arcane Explosion/Barrage (Resonance) and either OP or Arcane Orb depending on the fight. Also, our AoE rotation can be done entirely while moving. On 2-target cleave, Frost will dominate and there's nothing you can do to stop that. Arcane is likely weaker than fire on 2-targets, but not so much so that you couldn't play it if you wanted to.

Which brings us to the second advantage Arcane has, mobility. Slipstream means that only Arcane Blast can't be cast while moving. We still have Blink and we get the added advantage of displacement (which the other two don't have). Mobility is and always will be the greatest tool in mythic raiding.

Greater Invisibility gives us an extra Damage Reduction exclusive to Arcane, and Prismatic Barrier is unquestionably the best of the three barriers due to the reduced magic damage.

3) The bracers are very good for arcane (pretty similar to the kilt), and will allow you to drop a little bit of mastery in favor of crit/vers (see above). The belt is not great, but can be manipulated to get extra impact. Try to pop Arcane Power sub 35% mana, and the 70% reduction from Overpower should regen mana pretty quickly.

4) If your intent is to use Fire for AoE fights, the best legendaries aren't as useful for that. The belt (scorch execute belt) and the bracers (bonus damage on hardcast pyro) are both single target focused. The Dragon Breath helm is weaker for ST, but very good for AoE. If your intent is to use Fire as a "Arcane's not good, I"m switching to fire spec" not having the belt and bracers is absolutely crippling. Thus, since you have one of the two best legendaries for for Arcane already (bracers), I say go for it and try to get one of the two for fire.

[mythaelar]

Thanks for the explanation!

[Cauldron]

I don't know if it's the right place to seek help. I've finally switched from Fire to Arcane spec in raid (mythic EN and heroic ToV) and the DPS number seem's a bit low. Any idea how can I improve it?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VM ... W#fight=18
My mage is Krarth (the only arcane anyway).
Thanks in advance for any help

[Visk]

@Jimmyo

Thanks a lot for the thorough explanation. Talking about stats and mastery in particular (following your explanation about its value and damage output) does that mean that it is better for us to use stat sticks with crit/versa than mastery then? Therefore have a stat prio CRIT >= VERSA > Haste >= Mastery (or something similar)?

[loonatiq]

I have simillar concern. I've been raiding ToV heroic and we had some time to do EN first boss on mythic last night.

During the raid i had 866 gear with kilt. Damage was pretty low prolly cause im pretty new to the game however I feel like my guild expects me to change to fire for its instant casts easier to play with mechanics of the fights and superior AoE. I really try to avoid that since i don't like fire theme at all but maybe for the sake of raiding I should switch to it?

Here is my current gear: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... tiq/simple" target="_blank

Any ideas how to improve dps or convince them arcane is fine and I shouldnt switch to fire?

[Haruichi]

@Jimmyo

Thanks a lot for the thorough explanation. Talking about stats and mastery in particular (following your explanation about its value and damage output) does that mean that it is better for us to use stat sticks with crit/versa than mastery then? Therefore have a stat prio CRIT >= VERSA > Haste >= Mastery (or something similar)?

Think of it this way, and this is very roughly put:

Fundamental to doing high Arcane Damage is to have enough mana to carry out your rotation properly.

Mastery is great stat because it has a two-fold effect: It increases your effective mana budget and the damage of a number of your core abilites.

Relatively speaking, Crit and Versa make your abilities hit harder than Mastery does, but they don't increase your effective mana budget.

To this end, Mastery is oftentimes a preferred stat at lower gear levels.

You can, however, increase your effective mana budget in other ways than Mastery: Namely through certain legendaries and talents, especially Overpowered.

If you have those legendaries, and use those talents, thus increasing your effective mana budget, you can substitute Mastery for Crit and Versa so your abilities pack a harder punch.

So, your stat weights depend on gear and talents.

[Haruichi]

I have simillar concern. I've been raiding ToV heroic and we had some time to do EN first boss on mythic last night.

During the raid i had 866 gear with kilt. Damage was pretty low prolly cause im pretty new to the game however I feel like my guild expects me to change to fire for its instant casts easier to play with mechanics of the fights and superior AoE. I really try to avoid that since i don't like fire theme at all but maybe for the sake of raiding I should switch to it?

Here is my current gear: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... tiq/simple" target="_blank

Any ideas how to improve dps or convince them arcane is fine and I shouldnt switch to fire?

It's a bit difficult to respond to your questions; you mention your damage was low, but not what it actually was. And you ask for ideas how to improve your dps, but didn't, as far as I can see, include logs. Am I missing something?

Just looking at your current armory, here are my initial thoughts:

1. Without having seen your sim'ed stat weights, I can only hazard a guess, but I'd think it likely that you could prioritize crit and versa ahead of mastery and haste a bit. Especially since you have Kilt and use OP.
2. It might be a bug, but your rings appear to have no enchants, as does your cloak.
3. You could perhaps fiddle around with Ress in stead of CU depending on the encounter.

[loonatiq]

I have simillar concern. I've been raiding ToV heroic and we had some time to do EN first boss on mythic last night.

During the raid i had 866 gear with kilt. Damage was pretty low prolly cause im pretty new to the game however I feel like my guild expects me to change to fire for its instant casts easier to play with mechanics of the fights and superior AoE. I really try to avoid that since i don't like fire theme at all but maybe for the sake of raiding I should switch to it?

Here is my current gear: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... tiq/simple" target="_blank

Any ideas how to improve dps or convince them arcane is fine and I shouldnt switch to fire?

It's a bit difficult to respond to your questions; you mention your damage was low, but not what it actually was. And you ask for ideas how to improve your dps, but didn't, as far as I can see, include logs. Am I missing something?

Just looking at your current armory, here are my initial thoughts:

1. Without having seen your sim'ed stat weights, I can only hazard a guess, but I'd think it likely that you could prioritize crit and versa ahead of mastery and haste a bit. Especially since you have Kilt and use OP.
2. It might be a bug, but your rings appear to have no enchants, as does your cloak.
3. You could perhaps fiddle around with Ress in stead of CU depending on the encounter.

Yes, sadly Im not familiar with those websites that generate logs or something.

ad.1 Thats what I am aiming for but those items I have are the only above 870/880 I got so no replacements atm.
ad.2 What enchants do you suggest?
ad.3 Yes im considering dropping CU for ress in more AoE fights like helya for sure.

The problem I have is i can do 400k on dummy stable dps but when I go to raids there is a lot of movement and it usually drops to 250/300k at least with my 866 gear last night it looked like this. I got 2 new trinkets and couple of items and it jumped to 877 maybe it will be better next time. It's hard for new raiders to do dps as stationary mage(RoP), fire has much easier time with all the instant casts. For e.g. if I get orb of corruption at helya during my AP and RoP then im behind for whole fight or any random mechanic which is hard to think ahead of.

[Haruichi]

Yes, sadly Im not familiar with those websites that generate logs or something.

ad.1 Thats what I am aiming for but those items I have are the only above 870/880 I got so no replacements atm.
ad.2 What enchants do you suggest?
ad.3 Yes im considering dropping CU for ress in more AoE fights like helya for sure.

2) Whichever sims the higest for you. I can't know for sure, of course, but considering your gear, I'd guess Versa.

The problem I have is i can do 400k on dummy stable dps but when I go to raids there is a lot of movement and it usually drops to 250/300k at least with my 866 gear last night it looked like this.

Dropping 150k is perhaps a tad much, but naturally it's close to impossible to uphold your target dummy dps in a live raid.

This might seem obvious, but I'll say it anyway. One thing that helped me a lot at one point was a post, long since forgotten where I read it, that primarily had to do with movement. The crux of the post was this: Most players move a lot more than they really have to.

In a raid, you're obviously focused on your rotation and encounter mechanics; but as a training exercise, try to really keep your eye on how much you actually move and how much you really have to move. There's a tendency, I certainly fall victim to it from time to time, to become a bit jittery when the boss comes charging at you or there's a huge puddle of crap on the ground that's eating you alive. However, there's a lot of dps to be gained by trying to pay attention to how "little" you can get away with moving. There was for me, anyway.

Additionally, on movement heavy fights, I try to keep the following in mind:

1. NT quickly becomes a stronger choice than Erosion; especially if the encounter also includes priority add packs.
2. Without compromizing the raid strategy, try to place yourself so that you can deal damage with AE if you have to move and have no AM and it's a mistake to use ABarr.
3. It's much less of a penalty to use ABarr than it was recently (not that it should be used carelessly). Takes some getting use to.

fire has much easier time with all the instant casts.

I'm not entirely sure I agree. With Slipstream, Arcane Mages are basically in a situation where the only thing you can't cast on the move is AB. And that's even possible if you time your PoM properly. As such, I consider Arcane Mages to be in a decent situation in terms of movement.

[loonatiq]

Okay thank you for you answer.

You are probably right about the movement. Last night I was trying so much not to die that it might have led me to lower dps as I was more focusing of avoiding stuff at Helya than actually dpsing.

Since the mechanics are still thing that I need to think off I think getting experience with the raids might lead to dps increase on top of the gear that Ill get to at least 885 with second legendary.

[Kythos]

I don't know if it's the right place to seek help. I've finally switched from Fire to Arcane spec in raid (mythic EN and heroic ToV) and the DPS number seem's a bit low. Any idea how can I improve it?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VM ... W#fight=18
My mage is Krarth (the only arcane anyway).
Thanks in advance for any help

Hey Krarth/Cauldron!

quick look at your casts/timeline on your log, not a pro, just pointing some things out that stood out to me on 7.1.5 Ursoc.

... with slipstream most of the "circling around the room" can been done while casting AMs.
- when the charge goes out, you can cast AMs and not get interpreted (with slipstream).
- hit both Ursoc and the add with resonance barrages ( or CU barrages)

Another way to improve is plan out your CDs... since you know the mechanics and how long the fight is (~4 minutes for your group) I might suggest lust/hero/warp in the opener so you can burst higher in that first AP... if you can convince your group to do so. in a 4 minute fight, i would save the second MoA the additional 30 seconds for the next OPAP.

with Overpowered, you want to line up MOA so it bursts in RoP AP or 5 stacks of IFlows AP( cast on 2 to 1 down cycle).
for Ursoc, a very low mobility fight, I may suggest RoP if your looking to min/max.

hope this helps!

never forget 2 deadly pots if your looking to parse higher.

[Cauldron]

I don't know if it's the right place to seek help. I've finally switched from Fire to Arcane spec in raid (mythic EN and heroic ToV) and the DPS number seem's a bit low. Any idea how can I improve it?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VM ... W#fight=18
My mage is Krarth (the only arcane anyway).
Thanks in advance for any help

Hey Krarth/Cauldron!

quick look at your casts/timeline on your log, not a pro, just pointing some things out that stood out to me on 7.1.5 Ursoc.

... with slipstream most of the "circling around the room" can been done while casting AMs.
- when the charge goes out, you can cast AMs and not get interpreted (with slipstream).
- hit both Ursoc and the add with resonance barrages ( or CU barrages)

Another way to improve is plan out your CDs... since you know the mechanics and how long the fight is (~4 minutes for your group) I might suggest lust/hero/warp in the opener so you can burst higher in that first AP... if you can convince your group to do so. in a 4 minute fight, i would save the second MoA the additional 30 seconds for the next OPAP.

with Overpowered, you want to line up MOA so it bursts in RoP AP or 5 stacks of IFlows AP( cast on 2 to 1 down cycle).
for Ursoc, a very low mobility fight, I may suggest RoP if your looking to min/max.

hope this helps!

never forget 2 deadly pots if your looking to parse higher.

Hi, thanks for the reply and the insights!

I've simmed recently many combinations and an easy way to get some dps passively is to switch to mark of the hidden satyr and using deadly grace potions intead of prolonged power. Honestly the margin is small, 6k, so to save some money I could continue with Prolonged. I'm still 44 into Artifact, so I guess this delta will become even smaller with more Paragon's points.

RoP I used extensively as Fire, but is a mechanic I always hated and so I'm trying to get the best out of Incanter's flow.

The Mark of Aluneth tip you gave me is in line with what I've started to do recently. With the help of weakaura I'm trying to fit Mark and Arcane Missiles in the 3-4-5-4-3 phase.

I'm currently using 30%crit, 14%haste (should be 16% i know), 28%mast(30% with food) and 6% vers.
I've improved a bit more burning till 1/3 of my mana before activating AP, then letting it slowly regenerate while I burn with low cost arcane blast and missiles and then burn again till evocation time.

I'm still confused on how to best manage the regeneration phase. I don't have the mana to maintain more than 2 Arcane Charges so I go with 2AB->(AM)->ABarrage. That means that each AM proc I have is going to be casted at AC2. Is it good, or maybe I should try to remain at 4AC and cast more slowly (with idle time between casts) but hitting harder?

As a player I know I have to get better with movement and prediction. I tend to move a bit too much. Currently using slipstream and norgannon's boots I'm suffering way less dps loss (was much more playing fire and frost). But still I should manage it better. And I tend to react more than plan. So I usually avoid shit but sometimes lose dps time having to reposition to reach an add, or whatever is required.

Habits are hard to die, so I was wondering if there's a way to convert this lost time in dps. While I move too much I still regeneration mana, so maybe keeping higher AC stacks and casting with the idea time between them could fit my play style better. But I really don't know how to sim it, prob require a change of apl.

[m3nsky]

Try to bank at least 1 AM for movement purposes, should the fight require it, if taken slipstream.
Also during your conserve phase, don't AB AB (AM) ABarr, try to bank AM until 2-3 then RoP and unleash em at 4 charges. You only need 20% mana for APower burn so you can gradually go down a bit.

[Cauldron]

Try to bank at least 1 AM for movement purposes, should the fight require it, if taken slipstream.
Also during your conserve phase, don't AB AB (AM) ABarr, try to bank AM until 2-3 then RoP and unleash em at 4 charges. You only need 20% mana for APower burn so you can gradually go down a bit.

Yep that make sense if specced into RoP. But I play with Incanter's Flow.
The one AM banked for movement yes, I'm doing it.

[ardomur]

@Krarth on your Guarm fight you didn't Evocate a 3rd time, Ursoc Mythic only 2 times on a 4:18min fight, after your first Burn and Evocate you should try to keep Evocation on CD, it's no use to be at 40% Mana and doing a Converse rotation if you could just Burn to 0% Mana and Evocate to get to 100% again
You are doing a Converse Rotation even at 90% Mana or so, you don't benefit from this, you can safely Burn your Mana to 50% or even lower. With OP you usually regenerate Mana during your Burst so spend your Mana more!
If you get AM procs i'd advise you to just go to 4 Stacks and spend it, you have the Mana for it^^

Regarding not liking RoP - i understand you^^ but especially with OP you pretty much just need a window of 10 sec every 90sec to stand still (which you want regardless during Arcane Power^^) and Burn, and i think every fight lets you do at least that. I don't know how big the difference is in recent sims but on Mythic Ursoc for example if you run around with RoP you need to stand still for 10 sec to make best use of it, with IF your damage gets screwed way more if you have to move an 5 stacks every time and can only hit your abilities on low IF stacks, so outside of Sims RoP is usually better for your DPS - as long as you don't have to move out of RoP during your Burn it doesn't hurt as much as with IF
I didn't relly check more fights, on multi Target fights its hard to say something was wrong if your raid lead told you to do something or you waited on a timer or or or

[Cauldron]

@Krarth on your Guarm fight you didn't Evocate a 3rd time, Ursoc Mythic only 2 times on a 4:18min fight, after your first Burn and Evocate you should try to keep Evocation on CD, it's no use to be at 40% Mana and doing a Converse rotation if you could just Burn to 0% Mana and Evocate to get to 100% again
You are doing a Converse Rotation even at 90% Mana or so, you don't benefit from this, you can safely Burn your Mana to 50% or even lower. With OP you usually regenerate Mana during your Burst so spend your Mana more!
If you get AM procs i'd advise you to just go to 4 Stacks and spend it, you have the Mana for it^^

Regarding not liking RoP - i understand you^^ but especially with OP you pretty much just need a window of 10 sec every 90sec to stand still (which you want regardless during Arcane Power^^) and Burn, and i think every fight lets you do at least that. I don't know how big the difference is in recent sims but on Mythic Ursoc for example if you run around with RoP you need to stand still for 10 sec to make best use of it, with IF your damage gets screwed way more if you have to move an 5 stacks every time and can only hit your abilities on low IF stacks, so outside of Sims RoP is usually better for your DPS - as long as you don't have to move out of RoP during your Burn it doesn't hurt as much as with IF
I didn't relly check more fights, on multi Target fights its hard to say something was wrong if your raid lead told you to do something or you waited on a timer or or or

Thanks so much for this analysis! Yes I was quite conservative concerning mana, that at least i changed lately
The RoP considerations are quite interesting and very true. Except situations like Nythendra targeting you as soon as you drop it (the run to the walls stuff), yes the 10 sec window is required anyway. And yes, out of the sims and in a real raid situations is probably more easy to manage the small burn windows than up keeping the incenter's flow buff. I will try tonight and see how it goes.

Again thank you!

[x1xruex1x]

So what I'm seeing here are a couple of things, and I want to make sure I'm reading it all correctly:

• Utilizing Slipstream, bank '1' AM for movement purposes when not in a burn phase

• Utilizing Incanter's Flow, Cast your MoA @ 2 on the degrade, and it should pop on 5 at the peak

• It is best to bank a MoA that'll be available within 30 seconds of an AP burn, for the burn

• Mastery versus Crit seems to have a cut-off line. Once you have enough Regen to see AP leave you with a positive amount then it's best to switch over to being Crit focused. This seems to be around 35/40% Mastery.

As I said, this is just some of the take-away from the past 2/3 pages of notes. I'm currently sitting around 50%~ Mastery (can't remember off the top of my head).

So, like everyone else, I'm feeling the pains of seeing decent numbers on the Target Dummy and then a significant amount less in live.

In my video, I managed to peak at 851k dps, and then it quickly drops down, and then I tend to avg around 350-400 ranging. In a live fight, it just doesn't seem to get as high, and tends to stay lower more often than it peaks. I know a portion of that is due to my own playstyle of sucking at moving while dealing w/ output. Never been good with casting & moving which is why I've always disliked Ice Flows. It just seems to throw me off and I end up forgetting I even have it.

I guess, another question I have then is this:
How is AP burning looking for the masses so far?

• AB spamming & disregarding AM?
• AB spam until 3 AM stacks, then clear 1 or 2 & resume AB unless near end of AP?
• AB/AM weaving using PoM?
• AM prioritizing over AB?

From what I gather and see, if you AB spam, and only clear 1 or 2 AM (time permitting) during AP, it seems to work best and provides a solid output. This is when I peaked around 851~. I'm more than curious if anyone has had any success with any other AP rotations, or if there's something else outside these scenarios I'm missing.

Also, for the conservation phase...if you can even really call it that anymore,.. I think I'm at a toss up in the air here. Even with my 50%~ish Mastery, I'm still finding that I'm in a deficit when casting a 3rd AB, versus just 2 AB. My general feeling is that holding onto mana may be more a penalty than a benefit at this point, and just burning down to <50% mana would be more beneficial. Something like so:

• Burn phase ends & evocation finishes
• Continue to burn utilizing RoP as avail up until <=50% mana
• @ <=50% mana, ensure you've used all AM casts, then clear with ABarr
• (If poor mana regen) AB x2 > AM if avail > ABarr
• (If good mana regen) AB x3 > AM if avail > Abarr
• Ensure utilization of RoP x1 whenever you near 2 charges of RoP avail
• Maintain this until MoA, RoPx1, & AP align in being off-cooldown, then enter a burn phase.

So yea, those are my questions, thoughts, and general confusions I have currently.

Let me know what ya'll think.

[Visk]

Here is what I thought is best rotation wise (keeping both mana regen and DMG output in mind), but keep in mind that this is done from only 3 days of casual testing after 7.1.5 (exam session is over soon!).

It is also important to know that this is done in HC EN, LFR, Mythic + (as for bosses on a higher keystone)

Talents - 2223131

Opener:
- 4xAB > MoA > RoP > AP > AB spam until 2x AM > PoM > 1x AM > 1x (PoM) AB > 1x AM > 1x (PoM) AB > AB spam until end of AP (which is 14s for me)
- 2nd RoP with AM > AB spam depending on procs
(I need about 14% mana to cast a 4AC AB, so If I 1-2 AM procs at about 26-28% mana I just cast 2x AB and then evo and keep the AM procs)
- Evocation
- 1x AB (4AC) > whatever AM procs I have > ABarr to clear
- 4x AB > (I will use the AM procs at 4 AC stacks if I have 2 or more - 1 I will keep) ABarr clear
- repeat until next AP, OR something that I think might be good but have not tested yet
(imagine we have 3 AM on our 2-3rd AC, then I would pop RoP and do a mini burn - AM (to not keep the stacks at max, even if I do not have 4 AC), use all AM and with a bit of luck it should not be more than 2x AB with an ABarr to clear the final second). As we need little mana for the actual AP burn, I think that this can work fine. Then I wait for AP with the MoA CD and do a new burn and everything repeats.

This is the rotation I thought would work best and used in the first few days of the patch and found decently good. I spike with a huge opener (about 900k on single target I think was my highest in a dungeon) and then depending on fight length it drops by quite a bit. I found it weird that with every AP burn phase on a dummy my DPS dropped significantly, but that might be from a bug from Skada, as I had cases (mentioned before in the same forum topic) where in the matter of 1.5-2s my DPS drops with 140k (1x AB cast time). Otherwise I was able to maintain 350-450k DPS on dummy with not so good gear (I have the legendary bracers, but am not able to use my 2nd legendary yet - belt, which should be able to help me burn even more between Evocations).

I did not have the time last week to test (on a dummy) the 3 trinkets I have so I might as well ask for a suggestion here:

- Aran's Relaxing Ruby (860 + socket)
- Ethereal Urn (875)
- Naraxxas' Spiked Tongue (855)

Since the Aran's nerf I thought best would be to swap between it and the Tongue (AoE (cleave)/ST), but as I said I have not tested it yet.

I also do not have the best stats (877 iLvL) and without Satyr enchant as I am a cheap guy and will put it when I start raiding from this weekend
- 22,41% Critical
- 20,73% Haste
- 35,02% Mastery
- 1,70% Versatility

So, feel free to say what you think (take something if you find it good and did not think of it yet, hehe) and also give me any kind of suggestions and tips

P.S. There are already some logs for the NH and even if the arcane/fire mages amount is super low we are still most of the time significantly behind in DPS :/