[7.2] Arcane Talents, Trinkets, Racials, Stats, Legendary

[Jaliov]

The best way to gear mastery, especially with the kilt is to go as low as you can go while still feeling comfortable between your evocations. Mastery provides very little in terms of damage per mastery point. 8000 points in mastery is only like 17% damage, where-as 8000 crit points is nearly 20% crit. As such, it's really just about the maximum mana and mana regeneration. If you're good on mana, then mastery is bad. There's no magic number, just gear enough mastery that you are comfortable and the kilt should decrease how much mastery you need.

As for haste, you're playing RoP, which means it's likely you're near a haste value that lets you squeeze an extra Arcane Blast into your RoP + AP phase. I found that my haste scale factor was high between 14-15%, but plummeted the moment I hit 16%. You're at 19% and it wouldn't surprise me if something funny is happening around 20-21% (especially if you have +duration to Arcane Power relics in). I highly suggest you run a haste v. vers reforge plot in simcraft to see if there's a breakpoint you can gem into.

Thanks for your answer, I'll try that asap.

[Mythlos]

This is a known problem. influxes of mana (especially RNG ones like AM) cause some struggles with the sim and it judging burn start times. There are a lot of optimizations in the current APL though, so it's a non-trivial task to make the sim more flexible while not also losing these optimizations.

I see. This is an issue though if these simulations are going to be used as benchmarks for the spec with tier.

[Asara]

how trustworthy are the askmrrobot sims? 870 spiked tongue and 865 chronoshard sim way higher than relaxing ruby for me, even though the ruby was BIS in 7.1.

[Ophelia]

So I decided to put my arms warrior aside and pick up my mage again. Since i've always enjoyed arcane I decided to go with that. I've been looking up some information regarding the stats and I was wondering what the haste cap is exactly and if mastery is really much more important than crit. Thanks in advance!

[jimmyo]

how trustworthy are the askmrrobot sims? 870 spiked tongue and 865 chronoshard sim way higher than relaxing ruby for me, even though the ruby was BIS in 7.1.

Ruby's proc rate was dramatically reduced in 7.1.5.

So I decided to put my arms warrior aside and pick up my mage again. Since i've always enjoyed arcane I decided to go with that. I've been looking up some information regarding the stats and I was wondering what the haste cap is exactly and if mastery is really much more important than crit. Thanks in advance!

1) There's not really a haste cap. But there are a few inflection points if you use RoP that link to getting extra casts into your your RoP with PoM. The two PoM arcane blasts take 1.5 seconds each, and a standard casts takes 2.25 seconds (all adjusted by haste).

At 20% haste, you have 1.25 second GCDs and 1.875 casts, which fits exactly 4 AB casts (plus the two instants) into the 10 second timer. Factor in latency, and you'll want to be slightly above that figure. In order to get a 5th, you'll need to get to an obscene amount that's not actually feasible.

A 18% haste, you have 1.27 second GCDs, 1.91 casts, and 1.70 second AMs. That allows you to fit the two instant ABs, 3 casted ABs and 1 Arcane Missile into your RoP.

At 15% haste, you have 1.30 second GCDs, 1.96 casts, and 1.74 second AMs. That allows for exactly 2 instant ABs, 2 casted ABs, and 2 full AMs.

2) 1 point of Crit or Versatility provides more raw dps than 1 point of mastery. However, arcane is still largely about damage per mana, not just damage per second. Mastery is the only way other than Arcane Familiar (bad now) and Overpower to provide yourself with more damage per mana. Gear enough mastery that you are comfortable with your mana supply between Evocations, and that should be fine (opinions range from 30-50%). With the legendary kilt, helm, or bracers and belt, the amount of mastery you need decreases.

[TheHeretic91]

Are we no longer using AM during RoP or am I misunderstanding something?

[Asara]

how trustworthy are the askmrrobot sims? 870 spiked tongue and 865 chronoshard sim way higher than relaxing ruby for me, even though the ruby was BIS in 7.1.

Ruby's proc rate was dramatically reduced in 7.1.5.

that explains a lot, i must've missed that in the patch notes, thanks

[Zifnab]

Uh... I was looking at the dropbox file to see what items the sims were run with... and the 715_arcane_scale_1_tar.html file only has 3 pieces of the tier set equipped? Wouldn't missing that fourth piece DRASTICALLY alter the results of all of these sims? @_@

[Kythos]

890 Fury of the burning sky?

[stenan1]

In topic fire mage 7.1.5 has capped stats (5200 mast and 1800 hast).
Why in arcane mage dont has this capped? To what values need to overclock one or another stats?
All value in crit and vers ?

[Zimblebun]

I recently got an 880 Obelisk of the Void trinket from my weekly chest, and I don't see it on the list of ST/AoE trinkets, was curious to see if anyone else finds it on the same level-ish as a Moonlit Prism.

[loonatiq]

Uh... I was looking at the dropbox file to see what items the sims were run with... and the 715_arcane_scale_1_tar.html file only has 3 pieces of the tier set equipped? Wouldn't missing that fourth piece DRASTICALLY alter the results of all of these sims? @_@

Not really, there is docs file on the internet showing rough estimates for set piece bonuses for each spec and how increase % it gives. For arcane its pretty high for 0-2 which is almost 4,5% as for 2-4 is less around 0,5% so yeah. According to sims there is only big difference in 0-2.

[Kibetha]

Not really, there is docs file on the internet showing rough estimates for set piece bonuses for each spec and how increase % it gives. For arcane its pretty high for 0-2 which is almost 4,5% as for 2-4 is less around 0,5% so yeah. According to sims there is only big difference in 0-2.

That's not true, mainly because the sim is terrible. It does not properly handle the shorter cooldown on evocation, for starters.
Secondly, the DPS increase we get out of the 4 set is not by enhancing certain skills, but by allowing us to basically get rid of almost all mastery, resulting in a higher focus on Crit, haste and versatility, which leads to more damage.

I'm just worried that Whispers got nerfed so hard. Now an 860 Arcanocrystal is better than every single other trinket in the game, except for the legendary one. However, I think Whispers will scale really well once we get to higher itemlvls, because it's effect is cumulative rather than additive, meaning that the more damage you do in general, the better the proc gets.

Still, the Arcanocrystal situation is stupid beyond belief. If you manage to get it titanforged to 880, It's better than anything else in the game, even Mythic Whispers >.<

[loonatiq]

Not really, there is docs file on the internet showing rough estimates for set piece bonuses for each spec and how increase % it gives. For arcane its pretty high for 0-2 which is almost 4,5% as for 2-4 is less around 0,5% so yeah. According to sims there is only big difference in 0-2.

That's not true, mainly because the sim is terrible. It does not properly handle the shorter cooldown on evocation, for starters.
Secondly, the DPS increase we get out of the 4 set is not by enhancing certain skills, but by allowing us to basically get rid of almost all mastery, resulting in a higher focus on Crit, haste and versatility, which leads to more damage.

I'm just worried that Whispers got nerfed so hard. Now an 860 Arcanocrystal is better than every single other trinket in the game, except for the legendary one. However, I think Whispers will scale really well once we get to higher itemlvls, because it's effect is cumulative rather than additive, meaning that the more damage you do in general, the better the proc gets.

Still, the Arcanocrystal situation is stupid beyond belief. If you manage to get it titanforged to 880, It's better than anything else in the game, even Mythic Whispers >.<

Not sure about that. The mana is becoming less and less important when you have good legendaries so the 4 set piece bonus is not that great dps wise, but ofc its handy.

Ive got 880 whispers and my dps jumped really high not sure how it was nerfed but even that 35% haste is huge and procs multiple times during the fight.

[Kibetha]

True, the Kilt (especially when paired with the bracers) already devalued Mastery by a ton.
However, the 4 set is sure to be a higher dps increase than 0.2%.

I was wondering, is it still 35%, or is it 20% now?

Edit: That is to say, is the tooltip adjusted already?

[loonatiq]

True, the Kilt (especially when paired with the bracers) already devalued Mastery by a ton.
However, the 4 set is sure to be a higher dps increase than 0.2%.

I was wondering, is it still 35%, or is it 20% now?

Edit: That is to say, is the tooltip adjusted already?

On my armory it says 40%, in game last night im pretty sure it was 35% at 880 Ilvl. Gonna test it when I come back home, if it's only 20% then I dont know... maybe 900 or higher version would be viable but 20% is also not that bad since it gives intellect too.

[jacobsmage]

The 4 target priority add sims seems to be doing less damage than the single target one.
Should we just do ST rotation then @frosted?

Also what rotations would you be doing with these?
3 targets we Arcane Explosion instead of Arcane Blast?
If there are any adds, we swap from Charged Up to Resonance?
And at 4+ targets we swap from Overpowered to Arcane Orb?

[Saffina]

Does anybpdy happen to know or have the new BiS Arcane legendary sim?

I'm just wondering if the Wrists are still the best after the 18% nerf

[Cob]

Does anybpdy happen to know or have the new BiS Arcane legendary sim?

I'm just wondering if the Wrists are still the best after the 18% nerf

So far, top tier raiders been rolling with kilt and shard/kj burning.

Edit: sims at front page.

[Visk]

Guys can someone redirect me to a thread I have apparently missed or simply tell me for which trinkets should I go for Arcane - I have read quite a few different opinions on that which are good and which are bad and would love to get like a some kind of "tierlist" I should aim for from NH. Would it be stat sticks, int. proc trinkets, secondary proc... I would appreciate a lot any kind of info on that matter.

I am currently with 875 Urn, 855 Spiked Tongue and 860 socketed Aran's ruby.

Thanks for the info in advance!