Glacial Spike - Updated

[Xaximbo]

For what bosses in NH AG talent is better than UM?

Skorpyron,Aluriel & Tichondrius but Ticho is mostly a cleave encounter aside from a small add phase, depending how good your tanks are at grouping the bats normally i just Frozen orb + blizzard + frost nova and drop the FoF charges + a glacial spike if i got it ready. Your dps sinks on this phase but i'm usually top 1 dps on the other phases because of the ST nature + 3 add where GS is very good if you use UM.

[Xinder]

For what bosses in NH AG talent is better than UM?

Skorpyron,Aluriel & Tichondrius but Ticho is mostly a cleave encounter aside from a small add phase, depending how good your tanks are at grouping the bats normally i just Frozen orb + blizzard + frost nova and drop the FoF charges + a glacial spike if i got it ready. Your dps sinks on this phase but i'm usually top 1 dps on the other phases because of the ST nature + 3 add where GS is very good if you use UM.

It's also good on Botanist because you are at 2 + adds starting at 60% or whatever when the 2nd dude comes out. Plus you get the slow on the plants and AG makes that worth it if you blizzard those too. Also Elisande if your tanks group up her and the adds correctly. Lets you cleave all 3 when they're up which helps more than UM, imo anyway. I also think one could argue it would be helpful on even Gul'dan to cleave down the 3 adds that spawn in phase 1 or even if the Eyes of Gul'dan get clumped up in phase 2.

[Xaximbo]

I have been running simulations of Glacial Spike vs Comet Storm because i have noticed my dps is almost the same on ST using comet storm than GS. On most real fights my top damaging specs is Ice Lance followed closely by Glacial Spike my current stats are:

Crit: 31%
Haste: 22%
Mastery: 51%
Versatility: 12%
Trinkets: Unstable Arcano 860 Erratic Metronome 885
Traits: 45 2x Mind Freeze 1x Frostbolt relic 914 Ilvl weapon
Legs: Prydaz + Sephuz.
Overall ilvl: 897

Sims place Int>Versatility>Mastery>Crit>Haste which is close to OP Sim as i've been gearing towards this build.

However current sim of GS vs Glacial Spike on Patchwek results:


Glacial Spike: 642.041
Comet Storm: 634.202

Minimum difference considering for comet storm Haste weights a lot while mastery doesn't. Im using comet storm on Aluriel and Mythic+ as critical phases are ADD phases and i notice a dps increase over GS. But sims show on pure ST is still the same WHY? If i had more haste gear surely an AoE spec would outclass GS on Single Target, weird.

[Katsumi]

Maybe the issue becomes more apparent at 54 traits as compared to your current 45? Just a guess though. Maybe the aswer is to be found in the details of your sim?

[Arandomperson]

It's because gs scales better with ilvl and traits. I am currently on 908 ilvl and 54 traits and gs is ~100k higher than comet storm for me

[Xo1o]

Has anyone here tested -ingame- a heavy mastery gear setup vs what the sim recommends? I get noticeably better results on the training dummy with completely neglecting Versatility in favor of Mastery (currently at 86%). I'm at 53 traits, ilvl 896, 27% Crit, 8-9% Haste, 1% Vers.
It's quite difficult to test different gear setups ingame, because I don't have endless supply of gear with the same itemlevels, but after many hours of testing with what I have, it seems the ideal stat distribution would be: 30%+ Crit (up to 33%), 12%+ Haste (up to 15%), 70-80% Mastery, rest vers (not sure about vers at all since difficult to test for me).
With my setup, average GS hits are almost always >2mil with the occasional 7-10mil crits, Frostbolts crit for slightly under 400k and Icelances crit for 800k-1.3mil (with legendary bracers + depending on buffs).

[Sleepymages]

Has anyone here tested -ingame- a heavy mastery gear setup vs what the sim recommends? I get noticeably better results on the training dummy with completely neglecting Versatility in favor of Mastery (currently at 86%). I'm at 53 traits, ilvl 896, 27% Crit, 8-9% Haste, 1% Vers.
It's quite difficult to test different gear setups ingame, because I don't have endless supply of gear with the same itemlevels, but after many hours of testing with what I have, it seems the ideal stat distribution would be: 30%+ Crit (up to 33%), 12%+ Haste (up to 15%), 70-80% Mastery, rest vers (not sure about vers at all since difficult to test for me).
With my setup, average GS hits are almost always >2mil with the occasional 7-10mil crits, Frostbolts crit for slightly under 400k and Icelances crit for 800k-1.3mil (with legendary bracers + depending on buffs).

That's interesting. How close are your in-game results to the sim?

[Xo1o]

That's interesting. How close are your in-game results to the sim?

In raids on bosses that allow for high uptime and have little aoe I'm usually around 600k DPS, the sim says 592k. I haven't been testing on dummies fully buffed with BL, so with only food and no BL I'm around 575k on a dummy after 100mil~ damage.

[Jhesian]

Hello

My question is during haste procs (whispers, metro, lust) should i ignore FoF and Flurry and concentrate on pumping out as many 5xFbolt + GS as i can?
Or should i still weave FoF/Flurry while ramping up to 5 icicles for GS?
If i concentrate only on fbolt + GS i feel i can get 2-3 rotations in, if i stop to use FoF/Flurry with all the cds i can only get 1 in.

Thanks

[Venno]

Hello

My question is during haste procs (whispers, metro, lust) should i ignore FoF and Flurry and concentrate on pumping out as many 5xFbolt + GS as i can?
Or should i still weave FoF/Flurry while ramping up to 5 icicles for GS?
If i concentrate only on fbolt + GS i feel i can get 2-3 rotations in, if i stop to use FoF/Flurry with all the cds i can only get 1 in.

Thanks

Use Flurry to shatter Frostbolts, which makes for bigger glacials. Use ice lances when FoF procs, plus after flurries.
My understanding is to not throw FoF generators out during IV but still use procs as they come up, but could be wrong.

[mlvnk]

That's interesting. How close are your in-game results to the sim?

In raids on bosses that allow for high uptime and have little aoe I'm usually around 600k DPS, the sim says 592k. I haven't been testing on dummies fully buffed with BL, so with only food and no BL I'm around 575k on a dummy after 100mil~ damage.

No, I think you have to understand the "big number" you see on sim result is median DPS. Theres min and max dps to it so there quite likely to parse higher than median DPS quoted by sim even without changing any talents, gears.

[Sleepymages]

I've not seen this ever mentioned but if you are using vers food with this build the Darkmoon Faire recipes give a flat 1% boost which is 475 vs 375 from the best legion recipe.

[Venno]

Oh man, maxed out my weapon and got some new relics and GS just started crushing. I'm in love again.

[Imaskar]

What new relics?
I wonder, do we stick to the fb ones or upgrade to better ilvl? I heve 2 FB for a total of 906 ilvl on weapon, but the results are very subpar.

[Venno]

What new relics?
I wonder, do we stick to the fb ones or upgrade to better ilvl? I heve 2 FB for a total of 906 ilvl on weapon, but the results are very subpar.

My new relics? One was frostbolt damage and one was ice lance damage, but it was more the extra ilvl they gave. Took me from 913 to 922 weapon ilvl.

Most of the damage relics are decent, so generally focus on ivl upgrades. I mean, the first page of this thread has the relic comparison...

[Eyliria]

Is my opener wrong?

Prolonged Power @ 3 seconds on the pull
Ebonbolt -> IV + Flurry -> IL
FROST ORB

IL if FoF
Frostbolt -> Flurry -> IL when brainfreeze is up
GS when at 5 icicles (shatter if brain freeze is up)


I bolded the Frost Orb because I'm seeing conflicting information on when to use frost orb.
Some people say to not use "FoF generators during IV", some say to use them as they come up.

Which is accurate? Should I be holding off on Frost Orb until after IV runs out?

Honestly, while I can do more as Frost than Fire right now, I'm quite underwhelmed by GS, I can't pull the numbers you guys seem to pull, regardless of the fact I'm at 53 traits, 904 Ilvl equipped (910ilvl weapon)

Sure, I have 0 legendaries for Frost (still wearing my Darckli's because of the high int and crit) and KJ as my legendaries, but... I figured I'd be doing more... In a 5min fight I'll hover just over 700k.

I know my weapon ilvl is kind of low, but, KJ is a massive stat stick (3k int), I have ~48k int, I don't think the weapon would give me that much if it had another 10-15 ilvls

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... ria/simple" target="_blank -- me

[t3hbar0n]

Is my opener wrong?

Prolonged Power @ 3 seconds on the pull
Ebonbolt -> IV + Flurry -> IL
FROST ORB

IL if FoF
Frostbolt -> Flurry -> IL when brainfreeze is up
GS when at 5 icicles (shatter if brain freeze is up)


I bolded the Frost Orb because I'm seeing conflicting information on when to use frost orb.
Some people say to not use "FoF generators during IV", some say to use them as they come up.

Which is accurate? Should I be holding off on Frost Orb until after IV runs out?

Honestly, while I can do more as Frost than Fire right now, I'm quite underwhelmed by GS, I can't pull the numbers you guys seem to pull, regardless of the fact I'm at 53 traits, 904 Ilvl equipped (910ilvl weapon)

Sure, I have 0 legendaries for Frost (still wearing my Darckli's because of the high int and crit) and KJ as my legendaries, but... I figured I'd be doing more... In a 5min fight I'll hover just over 700k.

I know my weapon ilvl is kind of low, but, KJ is a massive stat stick (3k int), I have ~48k int, I don't think the weapon would give me that much if it had another 10-15 ilvls

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... ria/simple" target="_blank -- me

Use orb during IV so you will gain the 20% damage into all those lances, as well as not waiting 20 seconds to start the frozen orb CD... I will usually still get 1 and sometimes 2 GS casts during that time. As far as why your dps is low, you are missing massive dps upgrades for glacial spike builds such as bracers/shard. If I remember correctly both the bracers and shard were around a 30k dps increase each for my numbers. Also, are you making sure to shatter all your frostbolts when you have brain freeze up? Are you shattering your glacial spikes? These things make a large difference.

[Eyliria]

Is my opener wrong?

Prolonged Power @ 3 seconds on the pull
Ebonbolt -> IV + Flurry -> IL
FROST ORB

IL if FoF
Frostbolt -> Flurry -> IL when brainfreeze is up
GS when at 5 icicles (shatter if brain freeze is up)


I bolded the Frost Orb because I'm seeing conflicting information on when to use frost orb.
Some people say to not use "FoF generators during IV", some say to use them as they come up.

Which is accurate? Should I be holding off on Frost Orb until after IV runs out?

Honestly, while I can do more as Frost than Fire right now, I'm quite underwhelmed by GS, I can't pull the numbers you guys seem to pull, regardless of the fact I'm at 53 traits, 904 Ilvl equipped (910ilvl weapon)

Sure, I have 0 legendaries for Frost (still wearing my Darckli's because of the high int and crit) and KJ as my legendaries, but... I figured I'd be doing more... In a 5min fight I'll hover just over 700k.

I know my weapon ilvl is kind of low, but, KJ is a massive stat stick (3k int), I have ~48k int, I don't think the weapon would give me that much if it had another 10-15 ilvls

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... ria/simple" target="_blank -- me

Use orb during IV so you will gain the 20% damage into all those lances, as well as not waiting 20 seconds to start the frozen orb CD... I will usually still get 1 and sometimes 2 GS casts during that time. As far as why your dps is low, you are missing massive dps upgrades for glacial spike builds such as bracers/shard. If I remember correctly both the bracers and shard were around a 30k dps increase each for my numbers. Also, are you making sure to shatter all your frostbolts when you have brain freeze up? Are you shattering your glacial spikes? These things make a large difference.

I am, shattering is one of the most fun parts of the rotation.

Every BF (other than ebonbolts) is turned into a shattered frostbolt or a shattered glacial spike (I will not hold a BF proc for GS specifically, though. it either lines up that way or it doesnt)

[Kumpare]

Is my opener wrong?

Prolonged Power @ 3 seconds on the pull
Ebonbolt -> IV + Flurry -> IL
FROST ORB

IL if FoF
Frostbolt -> Flurry -> IL when brainfreeze is up
GS when at 5 icicles (shatter if brain freeze is up)


I bolded the Frost Orb because I'm seeing conflicting information on when to use frost orb.
Some people say to not use "FoF generators during IV", some say to use them as they come up.

Which is accurate? Should I be holding off on Frost Orb until after IV runs out?

Honestly, while I can do more as Frost than Fire right now, I'm quite underwhelmed by GS, I can't pull the numbers you guys seem to pull, regardless of the fact I'm at 53 traits, 904 Ilvl equipped (910ilvl weapon)

Sure, I have 0 legendaries for Frost (still wearing my Darckli's because of the high int and crit) and KJ as my legendaries, but... I figured I'd be doing more... In a 5min fight I'll hover just over 700k.

I know my weapon ilvl is kind of low, but, KJ is a massive stat stick (3k int), I have ~48k int, I don't think the weapon would give me that much if it had another 10-15 ilvls

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... ria/simple" target="_blank -- me

Use orb during IV so you will gain the 20% damage into all those lances, as well as not waiting 20 seconds to start the frozen orb CD... I will usually still get 1 and sometimes 2 GS casts during that time. As far as why your dps is low, you are missing massive dps upgrades for glacial spike builds such as bracers/shard. If I remember correctly both the bracers and shard were around a 30k dps increase each for my numbers. Also, are you making sure to shatter all your frostbolts when you have brain freeze up? Are you shattering your glacial spikes? These things make a large difference.

I am, shattering is one of the most fun parts of the rotation.

Every BF (other than ebonbolts) is turned into a shattered frostbolt or a shattered glacial spike (I will not hold a BF proc for GS specifically, though. it either lines up that way or it doesnt)

My suggestion is not to shatter your GS unless your raid is greatly overgeared or can afford failed boss mechanics.

The reason being that in most of the fights you are required to move a lot and by shimmering in to shatter the GS you not only reduce the available mobility you have but you have potentially positioned yourself sub-optimally, causing you even more dps loss.

Additionally, the dps gain from the Glacial spike isn't as big as it first seems. I mean yeah if you could shatter GS without a problem everytime then sure the damage would skyrocket. But shattering the GS doesn't simply double the damage of your glacial spike. Actually it increases it by (0.5*C + 0,5)*GS-damage, where C is your crit chance (simply put: at best shattering it will on average increase your GS damage by 66% if you have crit cap). But you also lose the damage you gain from a.) saving the flurry for your next frostbolt and b.) chain reaction which you gained from the said frostbolt. Also I've noticed that shattering the glacial spike isn't terribly easy, so if you mess it up all you've done is gained dps loss.

[t3hbar0n]

I can shatter GS without a problem every time the situation is available pretty much... I have had kills with 60-70% crit rate on my GS... it is a significant DPS increase and is certainly worth doing if you can do it. There are fights where it is better to save shimmer for movement, but in most cases you will have opportunities to shatter which should be taken advantage of.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MB ... e&source=9" target="_blank